Frigate vs. Sloop

[TBlack]

I'm currently building a model of a Sphynx class frigate. This is a 20 gun ship, so it's a small frigate, but a frigate nevertheless. As an aid, I'm referring to David Antscherl's book, 

Rigging A Sixth Rate Sloop of 1767-1780. (volume IV). In terms of size, armament, rigging these ships are very similar, so why is one called a frigate and the other a sloop?

[ccoyle]

Besides the number of guns, the rank of the commanding officer came into play. Frigates were the smallest men-of-war deemed worthy of a post-captain, while sloops were generally led by commanders or lieutenants. 

[druxey]

Also, a sixth rate could be brig-sloop rigged, two masts, or ship rigged, three masts.

[uss frolick]

During that period, the smallest class of 'frigate' was a 28-gun ship, displacing a minimum of about 600-700 tons, mounting nothing smaller than nine-pounders on her main deck. Even a merchant ship could be called 'frigate-built', (like Oliver Cromwell, ex-Juno) meaning that her guns are mostly on one covered deck, with the captain's cabin/stern gallery also on that deck. Little Pegasus was also 'frigate-built' by her deck arrangements, but she was only rated as a sloop. I think the 20 gun ships were called "post ships", smaller than a frigate, but large enough so that a captain could still be 'posted' to command her.

[Jaager]

Sloop is an ambiguous type designation.   The vessel in Antscherl's book is the 18th century version. 

There is a merchant /civilian vessel type.

In the 19th century -  for the USN : Sloop-of-War  -  the class and distinctions within it 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class based on size and number of guns. 

They were also termed corvettes - there may have been a size distinction to which were called corvette.  Corvettes were also a creature of the 18th century.

The defining characteristic was that they carried their guns on one deck.  In general, the number of guns was 16-20.  As the 19th century progressed, some or most had a spar deck.  A sort of roof over the gun deck that made it easier to manage the rigging.  No guns and not much of a bulwark.

 

A frigate carries guns on two levels (decks).   There may only be 2-4 guns on the quarterdeck, but that makes it a frigate. 

As the 19th century progressed, some frigates had their 2nd level guns removed,  the upper bulwarks cut down, and perhaps the beams replaced using less substantial ones - to become razee corvette.

 

The RN changed the sparring on some of their brigs - Cruzier's were a subject for this.  The main and fore masts were made less lofty and a full mizzen mast was added.  For some reason they were called brig sloops.  Though born brigs, they were now ship rigged and the same size as Sloop-of-War. 

[Martes]

It's complicated.

 

As far as I recall, there were even some cases when a ship-sloop was "promoted" to a frigate along with her commander when he received a post-rank. For example, when James Lucas Yeo was ordered by Admiral Smith to bring word of Strangford's success to Britain, this led Yeo being named to the list of post-captains. Due to his rank, Confiance was reclassified as a post-ship. And later reverted back, so the classification was very contextual.

 

Brig-sloops and ship-sloops referred only to the rigging, the rate of the ship in this case remained the same. Cruizer with 2 masts would be referred as a brig-sloop, and with 3 - a ship-sloop.

 

There was also a difference between flush-decked (with no covered gun deck) and quarterdecked (miniature frigate) sloops, but, again, this did not affect the rate of the ship in British classification. The only difference, brig-rigged sloop couldn't become a frigate, while a ship-rigged could under certain circumstances.

[Alex M]

As far as I know, the main difference between frigate and ship rigged sloop is the length of the lower deck.

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/84276.html

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83710.html

If you look at those plans, you will notice that lower deck by sloop Atalanta ends at the range of mizzen mast, while by Sphinx it going to stern post. The 20 gun sphinx class do not have had guns on the quarter deck and fore castle by launching. The six rate contains ships from 20 to 28 guns. The 20 gun ships are smalest rated ships, called also post-ships, as they stod at last place in ships-list. The sloops are not rated. Here is a screenshot from "The Naval History Of Great Britain Vol.1", page 50. The table shows a number of carronades for any class of ships. The book describes also very well the development of rating system.

https://books.google.de/books?redir_esc=y&hl=de&id=fkq8S57SG_0C&q=six+rate#v=snippet&q=six rate&f=false

 

Regards

 

Alexander

[TBlack]

On 6/16/2020 at 5:52 AM, Alex M said:

As far as I know, the main difference between frigate and ship rigged sloop is the length of the lower deck

Alex,

Great to hear from you again! I'll buy your description. Some of the replies don't seem to recognize the 20 gun Sphynx class frigate. Aside from that, how is it going? I bought your plan 

and have a version of the class, albeit in 1:96 scale (half your size), so I can't do all the detail that you have done. We'd love to see how you are progressing.

Tom

[Alex M]

Hi Tom,

 

I'm living ;) I'm working now at other things, Sphynx is paused for some time...

 

Regards

 

Alexander