Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

6 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, Vladimir. Druxey, et all

It looks like there were more than one image taken of "Glory of the Seas" on the Ways in 1869. I noticed that the position of the flagstaff with starry flag at her Bowsprit changes angles in various pictures, as does the angle of inclination of her Bowsprit Cap and Bowsprit too. The most noticeable difference is between the 1st and 2nd scene. It's hard to tell, since the middle pic has the Flag partially cut off but the flagstaff is verticle in this scene, while it's angled slightly backwards in the top one. Meanwhile in the third, bottom scene, the dolphin striker, which we referred to as being a reliable source as a plumb line actually angles outward slightly. I just thought others would appreciate these subtle differences.

Actually they are all the same image .  Follow the edge of the stem and you will see it shifts from vertical to less and even less.  This shift forces you eyes to assume it is vertical and forces the martingale off vertical.   Creating the distortions you are seeing.    Sorry.                                                             Rob

[Dowmer]

Not to mention, look at the people in the picture. Especially the children. They are notorious for moving. All the people seem to be in the same position which would be unlikely in a multiple photos with a long exposure time. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Dowmer

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

weekend update

 

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Actually they are all the same image .  Follow the edge of the stem and you will see it shifts from vertical to less and even less.  This shift forces you eyes to assume it is vertical and forces the martingale off vertical.   Creating the distortions you are seeing.    Sorry.                                                             Rob

My apologies then. It must have been the way reproductions were made. I forgot that some were taken from books that were quite difficult to get flat in order to reproduce them.

[ClipperFan]

36 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

weekend update

 

Vladimir,

Excellent work! That's exactly what I see too.

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir,

Regarding your attempts to recreate Glory's Cutwater flower carvings, there's a continual double stem that leads in a curving line all the way to the end. There's no break. It's the thinnest section but it's definitely there. The problem is that it's damnably difficult to see. Also it looks like the lower carved arch drops down along the outer edge and towards the end follows the curve of the lower Naval Hood arch. 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

Regarding your attempts to recreate Glory's Cutwater flower carvings, there's a continual double stem that leads in a curving line all the way to the end. There's no break. It's the thinnest section but it's definitely there. The problem is that it's damnably difficult to see. Also it looks like the lower carved arch drops down along the outer edge and towards the end follows the curve of the lower Naval Hood arch. 

Im pleased you like nameplte board Richard, im pretty satisfied how it turned out myself. You guys feel free to criticise or correct any lines or whatever remark, I would be happy...  you could also draw Richard Rob Druxey or Whoever, you have artistic eyes and hands, sure there are is a few  of free thoughts and freelines in lower acanthus leafs ornament that should be corrected though and it would be okey doke. 

 

one thing for sure i dont know how we could manage to alive that gorgeous statue but im sure i wont bother even trying to draw her. i think native american heritage souls and hands must recreate her !  

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Rob, Richard, I wil try to lift stern this evening to 2 FT from 1 we did last time to see how stern apears after ive done it. i will post once done. 

i smell some good outcome cant  wait to have hooray day so i can have the bulkheads cut . one note from me im definitely not going to mak 3D model Rob, i tried to fool ot somehow in cad program but for determining Z axis there are calculations needed or whole work to be done in3D program instead of 2 D. i am not up to that. just fyi. 

[druxey]

It's the horizon lines that show the tilt of the prints are different ones of the same photo.

 

All right, gentlemen, my two cents' worth is added!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

4 minutes ago, druxey said:

It's the horizon lines that show the tilt of the prints are different ones of the same photo.

 

All right, gentlemen, my two cents' worth is added!

Here we goo, but what a lovely cents ! amazing. thank you ! i think her hand should be littel longer but i m going to position her on vessel. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

23 minutes ago, druxey said:

It's the horizon lines that show the tilt of the prints are different ones of the same photo.

 

All right, gentlemen, my two cents' worth is added!

Druxey,

Nice work on Athene. One correction you want to make. If you look carefully you can see the central iron armature of her right arm where it broke off. It's pointed down more than your recreation does. Than you actually captured her right hand which is the oblong artifact up next to her small bun. Reposition her right forearm to connect to her hand and erase the back line at the right end of her hand. Very nice overall, you definitely captured her graceful pose and lovely features, which isn't easy to do.

[ClipperFan]

The latest images from Michael Mjelde. These are close ups of "Glory of the Seas" at San Francisco dock 1877. For some odd reason, although I can get them right side up on my phone, they won't orient correctly when I upload them. My apologies. I figured upside down or not, you guys would all appreciate these higher definition images.

Vladimir, if you look carefully at the carved arch on her Cutwater you'll see what I meant by the curve mirrors that of the lower one on the upper Naval Hood. 

I'm going to print these out and then try to merge them into a continuous single image, unless somebody beats me to it.

[druxey]

Thanks for the feedback. It was difficult to render the right arm from the differing angles of the various photos.

[druxey]

More like this?

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

i chcanged various aspect of it. i will try to underlayer black color as this can be little confusing. i joined them and deleted some rough lines that shouldnt be there ....

 

[ClipperFan]

11 minutes ago, druxey said:

Thanks for the feedback. It was difficult to render the right arm from the differing angles of the various photos.

Druxey,

Take a close look at the gold necklace at the nape of Athene's neck. Just above you'll see what remains of her right hand, the small oval on right is the inside of her wrist, her thumb is inside the fabric and her upper hand grips the top. Meanwhile if you look to the right side of that necklace, you'll see another oval with a dark spot in the center. That's her shoulder and a small section of her upper right arm. Following her contours, you can project her right arm out, slightly downwards, then her upper forearm will reach back up and slightly inwards to connect with her wrist.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

9 minutes ago, druxey said:

More like this?

it think its great , Thanks Druxey.

[ClipperFan]

29 minutes ago, druxey said:

More like this?

Druxey,

See how she now looks like she's carrying something in her right hand. Well that thing IS her right hand! What looks like it could be the end of a loaf of bread is actually the inside of her right wrist in the photo. Draw her upper forearm from the angle of her wrist and her right arm naturally bends back from there.

[ClipperFan]

29 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

i chcanged various aspect of it. i will try to underlayer black color as this can be little confusing. i joined them and deleted some rough lines that shouldnt be there ....

 

Vladimir,

That's lovely. Now add a thin parallel line to that single line and you'll be very close to the original.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

 

Vladimir,

The devil's in the details. This looks lovely but (don't you always hate that there's a but?) The figurehead is a little too small. Take a look at Druxey's work, which looks like his scale is spot on. Also look at the sharp close up. We've confirmed from multiple sources, including that Seattle view, that Athene is 7 1/2' tall. Courtesy of Rob, we now have very precise measurements for the relationship of all the elements in her Bow. At her correct height, Athene's crown is 2' from the tip of the Naval Hood and her head is just above the Hood. Her right hand is 18" from the tip too. 

Speaking of which, you're copying Druxey's mistake in the position of her upper arm. The item just above is not cloth, it's actually the severed wrist and hand holding the flowing drapery behind it. The arm should blend into that wrist, not be just below as it's drawn now. 

[TheAuthorsDaughter]

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

Excellent work! That's exactly what I see too.

One of the name plates is should still be on display at the Research library situated on the third floor of Building E of the National Park Service complex at San Francisco.  They started exhibiting it in conjunction with publication of Clipper Ship Captain in 1997.  I went to see it when I was a teenager and going in a trip to Disneyland. My brother also did a scaled down replica up that is hanging in my folks living room above one of the paintings of Glory.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

10 minutes ago, TheAuthorsDaughter said:

One of the name plates is should still be on display at the Research library situated on the third floor of Building E of the National Park Service complex at San Francisco.  They started exhibiting it in conjunction with publication of Clipper Ship Captain in 1997.  I went to see it when I was a teenager and going in a trip to Disneyland. My brother also did a scaled down replica up that is hanging in my folks living room above one of the paintings of Glory.

This is very interesting, I had dificulties to find entire nameplate so I depicted letter from two photos though...so I ditched doingit from actual nameplate and tweaked available rectangular font to sort of carving one, but rounds around S are not sharp but rounded a bit, closeup view would surely be more than welcome. That is not final version for sure, there is many but... uncapitaled "of the " is also kind of temporary and not defiitive as it doesnt have qualities of original work in progress indeed. Thank you very much for pointing source of nameplate. Im sure Rob and Richard would find something.

[druxey]

I interpret the right hand holding the bunched drapery, so is mainly hidden under the drape. Am I wrong?

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

The devil's in the details. This looks lovely but (don't you always hate that there's a but?) The figurehead is a little too small. Take a look at Druxey's work, which looks like his scale is spot on. Also look at the sharp close up. We've confirmed from multiple sources, including that Seattle view, that Athene is 7 1/2' tall. Courtesy of Rob, we now have very precise measurements for the relationship of all the elements in her Bow. At her correct height, Athene's crown is 2' from the tip of the Naval Hood and her head is just above the Hood. Her right hand is 18" from the tip too. 

Speaking of which, you're copying Druxey's mistake in the position of her upper arm. The item just above is not cloth, it's actually the severed wrist and hand holding the flowing drapery behind it. The arm should blend into that wrist, not be just below as it's drawn now. 

I prologed her I think this is she follows bended lines perfectly. I didnt touch Druxeys draw just smoothed lines. ...i like figurative ahdvproportions are true  head position drapery and overal feel is very leisury like. Seducing...:) 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, druxey said:

I interpret the right hand holding the bunched drapery, so is mainly hidden under the drape. Am I wrong?

Druxey,

Yes. Look very closely at the object up near Athene's tight hair bun. Notice the small oval? That's the neatly severed wrist of her right hand. Only her right thumb is hidden under the drapery, her entire right hand is visible above the drapery. I'm positive of this. Below, just to the right of a dark area at the nape of Athene's neck is her right shoulder, then there's another oval with a tiny black dot in it. That's her severed upper right arm. That dot is most likely an iron armature, as best I can guess.

It must have been one powerful wave to snap her arm off so cleanly. There's an old newspaper article that refers to the fact that the young East Boston beauty who posed for Glory's figurehead drowned. When her body was recovered she was missing an arm. Apparently at the same time the Sea gave up her dead, a freak wave struck "Glory of the Seas" and removed her Figurehead's right arm. Superstitious sailors tried to replace it but were never successful. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

I prologed her I think this is she follows bended lines perfectly. I didnt touch Druxeys draw just smoothed lines. ...i like figurative ahdvproportions are true  head position drapery and overal feel is very leisury like. Seducing...:) 

Vladimir,

That looks much better. Glory's Bowsprit was 34" in diameter & 24 feet outboard. There are 7 iron bands, each 3' apart & 1 additional band which wraps around both her Bowsprit and Jibboom above. There's 18" before band 1 & 18" beyond band 7 to the Cap. The head of Athene lines up midway between band 2 & 3. That puts her 7 1/2 feet from the center of band 1 and 9 feet from the beginning of the Bowsprit. I believe Rob also said Athene's exactly 7 1/2 feet from the inner Bobstay mount on the Bowsprit too.

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, TheAuthorsDaughter said:

One of the name plates is should still be on display at the Research library situated on the third floor of Building E of the National Park Service complex at San Francisco.  They started exhibiting it in conjunction with publication of Clipper Ship Captain in 1997.  I went to see it when I was a teenager and going in a trip to Disneyland. My brother also did a scaled down replica up that is hanging in my folks living room above one of the paintings of Glory.

TheAuthorsDaughter

That's fascinating to learn there's yet one more vestige of Donald McKay's last Clipper left. Thanks for sharing that with us. Of course if you have any pics of it, that would be marvelous to see!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

2FT elevated stern look....

 

[rwiederrich]

17 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

I prologed her I think this is she follows bended lines perfectly. I didnt touch Druxeys draw just smoothed lines. ...i like figurative ahdvproportions are true  head position drapery and overal feel is very leisury like. Seducing...:) 

Looking so much better...but you need to push her nameplate forward.  The *S* in Sea is directly beneath the center of the forward bit and the bit is 8ft from the forward portion of the monkey rail tip.  So your bits need to be relocated as well(Pushed back).   Look at the close up of her....

 

Rob