Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

Did you see the extra doors on the starboard side?   This is after her 1872 mods but before her conversion to a barge for coal and fish.  
 

Rob

Rob, I haven't had a chance yet to look for that particular image. If you want to post that, it might be easier. I'm going to be more occupied with annual insurance training requirements for a while. I believe you and as I said earlier today, since the original Helm House didn't have an internal front door, when the Captain closed it off to do the extension, if he didn't add doors, there would have been no entrance. So I totally accept the double doors now. I'll also take a closer look at Mike's Appendix B from "Clipper Ship Captain" to see how he illustrated the extension.

[rwiederrich]

A little bit of progress.  
 

zRob

[rwiederrich]

I’ll sand and repaint when I add more windows and the doors. 
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

30 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

A little bit of progress.  
 

zRob

 

[ClipperFan]

Rob, I took a much closer look at both Stern pics of the extended Helm House. The Alaskan towing scene does show a second door which is sculpted very similar to the rest of the house, as well as the outline of a third window. Ironically the smaller scene of Glory beached shows a reflection of a third window. Once you know what to look for it's clearly obvious. There obviously was a lot of considerable thought given to make this addition look like it was actually part of the original design. 

[rwiederrich]

Here are some pics to show what I’m talking about 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

While we are on the hunt,  a new clue has arisen.     This image, apart from several things, shows the port door of the carriage cabin open and it appears to be swung open to the left.   
 

Definitive for sure 

 

Rob

[TheAuthorsDaughter]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:23 PM, ClipperFan said:

Rob, since this suggestion comes directly from Michael Mjelde himself, who as far as I know was at one point the Editor (?) or possibly even President (?) of the Nautical Research Society which publishes the journal, I believe this is a genuine possibility.

My dad is just a member of the Nautical Research Society (since the early 70’s) and has written articles for their journal. He was at one time the editor and has been a longtime member of the editorial board for Puget Sound Maritime Historical Society and their journal The Sea Chest. 

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Here are some pics to show what I’m talking about 

 

Rob

Rob, I'd say this is definitive. When the ship's Helm House was extended, there was two doors and three windows per side and it appears two fore and aft. You can also see that the molding pattern has been maintained consistently in order to keep the appearance that she was originally built that way. Very impressive well thought out work.

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

While we are on the hunt,  a new clue has arisen.     This image, apart from several things, shows the port door of the carriage cabin open and it appears to be swung open to the left.   
 

Definitive for sure 

 

Rob

While it's barely visible, I concede your point. I've also written to Michael to clear up this issue. What continues to baffle me is the lack of visible hinges. As soon as Mike responds, I will let you know. He also has a few more images of the Rear and Front Houses which I asked him to share with us.

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, TheAuthorsDaughter said:

My dad is just a member of the Nautical Research Society (since the early 70’s) and has written articles for their journal. He was at one time the editor and has been a longtime member of the editorial board for Puget Sound Maritime Historical Society and their journal The Sea Chest. 

Hi Arina, thanks for setting the record straight about your dad's relationship to the Nautical Research Society. While I overshot by thinking he was at one time President it's a relief to know I hit the mark on him being a past editor of their Journal. The point I was making to Rob is that your dad has the right connections to get another article on Glory published, should he see the value in such an endeavor. Again, thanks for weighing in.

[rwiederrich]

7 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I'd say this is definitive. When the ship's Helm House was extended, there was two doors and three windows per side and it appears two fore and aft. You can also see that the molding pattern has been maintained consistently in order to keep the appearance that she was originally built that way. Very impressive well thought out work.

My search was fruitful.  I knew she had to have more windows for the helmsmen and more access via more doors.   Those forward doors probably are the new access below into the main aft cabin 

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

7 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

While it's barely visible, I concede your point. I've also written to Michael to clear up this issue. What continues to baffle me is the lack of visible hinges. As soon as Mike responds, I will let you know. He also has a few more images of the Rear and Front Houses which I asked him to share with us.

I suspect for weathering purposes the hinges are internal hidden hinges so the door has unexposed edges to keep out heavy seas.  
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

25 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

My search was fruitful.  I knew she had to have more windows for the helmsmen and more access via more doors.   Those forward doors probably are the new access below into the main aft cabin 

 

Rob

Rob, after you told me about the Glory under Sail image, it dawned on me that unless they added an internal door to the front of the original Wheelhouse, there would be no possible entrance into the new expanded Helm House. It made more sense to design in two new doors and additional windows for better traffic flow. What I still marvel at is even original style fancy molding was included so that the extension was seamlessly added.

[rwiederrich]

Worked on the cabins a bit today. 
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

7 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Worked on the cabins a bit today. 
 

Rob

Stunning Rob, beautiful. in that scale,  wow. from windows to the roof. im looking fwd for main deck cabin. V. 

[ClipperFan]

Beautiful craftsmanship Rob, simply beautiful 

[rwiederrich]

9 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Stunning Rob, beautiful. in that scale,  wow. from windows to the roof. im looking fwd for main deck cabin. V. 

Thanks Vlad.  
Panel work takes the longest time.  Some of it is only 1/8” long.  
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Beautiful craftsmanship Rob, simply beautiful 

Thanks Rich.  
 

keeping everything plumb and level so it is clean and sharp is tough in this scale.  But as you can see, quite doable   
 

I still have to figure out the roof venting.    It looks as if it has an aft can’t to it and that it is taller in the front.   
 

I’ll need to do more research.  

 

Rob

Edited September 12, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

33 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich.  
 

keeping everything plumb and level so it is clean and sharp is tough in this scale.  But as you can see, quite doable   
 

I still have to figure out the roof venting.    It looks as if it has an aft can’t to it and that it is taller in the front.   
 

I’ll need to do more research.  

 

Rob

Here's the proof you seek. Below the 3 dudes astride the boom just above the Helm House, the small vent structure is definitely slightly taller fore than aft. Again, as usual the difference is slight but there, if you look closely enough.

 

 

41 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich.  
 

keeping everything plumb and level so it is clean and sharp is tough in this scale.  But as you can see, quite doable   
 

I still have to figure out the roof venting.    It looks as if it has an aft can’t to it and that it is taller in the front.   
 

I’ll need to do more research.  

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Yes.   I’ve seen other images that are not as clear showing the cant of the vent.  
 

Thanks

 

Rob

Edited September 12, 2021 by rwiederrich

[Tony Hunt]

My gosh that looks good Rob. 

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Yes.   I’ve seen other images that are not as clear showing the cant of the vent.  
 

Thanks

 

Rob

Rob, my pleasure. Anyway I can be of service to you Master Modelers, I'm there for you.

[rwiederrich]

5 hours ago, Tony Hunt said:

My gosh that looks good Rob. 

Thanks Tony

 

Im trying to keep her clean and straight. 
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, my pleasure. Anyway I can be of service to you Master Modelers, I'm there for you.

I’m gathering this feature is a vent or skylight of some kind.  She had it prior to her mods.  
 

Rob

[Tony Hunt]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Tony

 

Im trying to keep her clean and straight. 
 

Rob

Succeeding admirably, I'd say!

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I’m gathering this feature is a vent or skylight of some kind.  She had it prior to her mods.  
 

Rob

Rob, isn't it more likely this is some form of a skylight? After all, in the rain, vents would let in water to an otherwise enclosed room. A small room that already had 2 doors and 4 windows for ventilation already. My guess is a skylight with a louvered front and cantilevered roof to allow water to flow backwards to a larger roof below.

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, isn't it more likely this is some form of a skylight? After all, in the rain, vents would let in water to an otherwise enclosed room. A small room that already had 2 doors and 4 windows for ventilation already. My guess is a skylight with a louvered front and cantilevered roof to allow water to flow backwards to a larger roof below.

What's funny about this feature is she had it when her helm house had an entirely open front.  Unless the light was that bad inside that she needed an additional skylight...which by the way we see men resting their feet on.  I gather the light entered via heavy plate glass on top or from the sides.  But images show white sides.   I can postulate.....but whatever direction I come at this, it can be argued.

Your favorite painting of her doesn't even show this feature.

 

If it's a skylight...why did she need one in her original state.....I can understand it being a skylight after her mods that lengthened and enclosed her helm house.  Ventilation can still occur via side venting as was a design McKay employed in many of his clippers.

 

Looking back at post #1747, notice in this image the forward silhouette of the roof light/vent. 

 

Rob

Edited September 13, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

38 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

What's funny about this feature is she had it when her helm house had an entirely open front.  Unless the light was that bad inside that she needed an additional skylight...which by the way we see men resting their feet on.  I gather the light entered via heavy plate glass on top or from the sides.  But images show white sides.   I can postulate.....but whatever direction I come at this, it can be argued.

Your favorite painting of her doesn't even show this feature.

 

If it's a skylight...why did she need one in her original state.....I can understand it being a skylight after her mods that lengthened and enclosed her helm house.  Ventilation can still occur via side venting as was a design McKay employed in many of his clippers.

 

Looking back at post #1747, notice in this image the forward silhouette of the roof light/vent. 

 

Rob

Rob, You may be right that this interesting structure is for ventilation. Post #1747 also reveals a double level to the front profile that I never noticed before. It's very dark but I swear I can see closed louvers in shadows. They seem to be separated by verticle columns to which they're mounted. Considering in the original configuration, the helmsman and ship's wheel were both in front of the house and just protected by a 2-3' wall, having 4 windows for a relatively small open structure would provide plenty of light. So I'm thinking more like you that this little addition is most likely ventilation.

[ClipperFan]

For modeling purposes, I estimate this structure to be 6' wide by either 6' or 8' long. The front would be 3-4' elevated in the center with 2 1-1 & 1/2' outside areas. The rear looks to be 1' high, so the front may be 1 & 1/2 high on the outside and 2' high in the center. Rough estimates based on visual observations. I'll sketch an idea of what we're discussing.