Length of Caldercraft HMAV Bounty

[peterbrowne]

The Caldercraft site states that the length is 660mm.  Is this the hull, or does it include the bowsprit and anything else?  Someone who has built this kit care to measure?

 

This is to determine some basic accuracy of the Caldercraft kit. 

 

The real Bounty is mentioned as being 90' 10'' (2768.6 cm) in hull length (LOA or LOD?) though this length is not evident at least to me from the Admiralty plans unless looking at the rule at the base of the plan.  The stated length is the Length of the Range of the Deck at 84 feet 6 inches.  The rule appears to indicate the original LOA (not including spars) being approx 90 feet, which I will use.

 

 

At 1:64 this should be around 433mm.  This would make the bowsprit more than a 1/3 the length of the model...which may be correct?

Edited November 25, 2020 by peterbrowne

[Gregory]

A drawing from " The Anatomy of the Ship " shows the bowsprit to be 35 ft.

 

It looks like forum member/Moderator  Matrim , finished that kit.

 

You might ask him how the plans compare to the draught from NMM.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Gregory

[peterbrowne]

3 hours ago, Gregory said:

A drawing from " The Anatomy of the Ship " shows the bowsprit to be 35 ft.

 

It looks like forum member/Moderator  Matrim , finished that kit.

 

You might ask him how the plans compare to the draught from NMM.

 

Will do, thanks. 

 

If modeled accurately, the bowsprit would add another 167mm to the hull length of 433mm @ 1/64 scale then, with a 1:1 length of hull (2768 cm or 90' 10'') and bowsprit (1067cm or 35') = 3835cm (125' 9.8'')...

 

This would make a 1/64 model with length of 433mm (hull) + 167mm (bowsprit) = 600mm.  The Caldercraft kit is stated by Caldercraft at 660mm.

Edited November 24, 2020 by peterbrowne

[peterbrowne]

BTW I'm using this handy online scale conversion tool:

 

https://www.ginifab.com/feeds/cm_to_inch/scale_converter.html

[peterbrowne]

Possibly a red herring, but the 1960 replica apparently built from Admiralty plans is 169 feet in length (LOS).  This would appear to be 44 feet too long...and she looks it in the photograph.

 

http://www.stpetersfiesta.org/Bounty.htm

Edited November 24, 2020 by peterbrowne

[Gregory]

Yes, that ' replica ' is way off..

 

I overlaid the AOTS drawing on the NMM drawing and couldn't  get a match by almost a foot; the NMM being slightly longer.

It may be the shortcoming of my software, or an error in the book.

 

However, note that the bowsprit with it's steeve, only adds about 27' to the overall length.

 

Caldercraft probably measures from the back of the lantern to the tip of the bowsprit.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Gregory

[Gregory]

P.S.

 

Does the spanker boom extend over the stern?   Caldercraft would have probably included this in the overall length of the model..

[Thunder]

Hi, photographs below are from my unbuilt kit.

 

 I have pieced the parts together as best as possible to give you the hull dimensions. looks to be about 505mm from figurehead to taffrail. Measuring from the Anatomy of the ship book Bounty I get same dimension to be 336mm@1/96 scale. Which i think comes out at 504mm @ 1/64 scale.

 

[peterbrowne]

OK, thanks for the replies, and thank you Thunder for your assistance and the images. 

 

The Admiralty plans should be the source of truth.  Those plans have some stated measurements, including extreme deck length,  but not the Length Over All (LOA), which originally means not including any spars.  The rule on the bottom of the plans therefore need to be used to determine LOA.

 

The rule goes from 0 to 90 feet.

 

I have marked zero and 90 feet with vertical red lines in Photoshop.  The zero line is on the base of the stern.  The 90 foot line is approx in the centre of the stem at the bow.  That length is 90 feet.   Measuring out to the forward side of the stem would seem to be about 91 feet, judging by the graduations on the rule.

 

If someone would care to measure that section (as indicated on the image below) on the Caldercraft plans?  That length, 90 feet, if accurate on the Caldercraft plans, should be @ 1/64  428mm...

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by peterbrowne

[peterbrowne]

In terms of overlaying images, this is prone to error, as images can be distorted (e.g. through the scanning or printing process).  Even the Admiralty plans would have suffered from shrinkage over time.

[Gregory]

The measurement made by Thunder of the Caldercraft plans doesn't help?  

Edited November 25, 2020 by Gregory

[peterbrowne]

Looking again at the images graciously supplied by Thunder, I can see the the centre of the Stem post is at 4.5cm on the measure.  The base of the stern is at exactly 47.5cm on the measure.  This is good. 

 

475mm less 45mm = 430mm.

 

So the length on the Admiralty plans between those points (90 feet or 2743 cm)  matches the length +-2 mm  between those points on the Caldercraft plans (430mm). 2743cm (90 feet) @ 1/64 = 428.594mm

 

I'm impressed.

 

Thanks Gregory and Thunder for helping with this 🙂

Edited November 26, 2020 by peterbrowne

[mtaylor]

To be honest, I doubt very seriously that any model kit by most of the older companies will be 100% accurate to plans, etc.  Some reasons have to do with box size (yes, some kits were designed to fit into a box of a certain size), what plans were used, how the plans were drawn and zillion other reasons for discrepancies. 

 

Best bet would be to pick the kit you like best and seems to meet your needs and skills.  

[peterbrowne]

2 hours ago, mtaylor said:

To be honest, I doubt very seriously that any model kit by most of the older companies will be 100% accurate to plans, etc...

 

Well yes Mark, I would generally agree that would be the case in all disciplines of modelling, even with modern plastic kits which have the capacity for great fidelity of detail and high accuracy.  There always seems to be something not correct, even with the better companies (the only exception I can think of would be Wingnut Wings).

 

Coming from 1/32 aircraft plastic modeling, and being somewhat of a rivet counter (as we are), I would always seek the most accurate kit and make modifications where necessary.  Otherwise, I would always be looking at something that I knew wasn't quite right.  I guess modeling naturally attracts the type of person.

 

So getting at least the basic things correct, like the length of the ship, is a good starting point.  The rest can be worked out from there. 

 

Actually I was quite surprised that the Caldercraft Bounty was so accurate in the length compared to the Admiralty plans, pretty well spot on.  One of the joys I find in modelling is doing the research.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by peterbrowne

[Matrim]

The bowsprit is apparently 35 ft and 4 inches to be exact which is 168.275 at scale.

 

Also the Admiralty has 2 sets of plans for the Bounty and they differ in size slightly. The McKay book indicates he believes the second to be more accurate. You also have a 3rd set of plans which is the size when the adjustments were completed. They 'should' match the second but Bligh did make further changes. Not to impact the length admittedly.

 

Kit length also includes the Driver Boom sticking out the back which needs to include the connection piece to the mast not measured with the boom itself as when saying how big a kit is you have to tell how long it will be for literal space purposes ( you cant say its 3 ft long when extra masts etc make it 5 ft)

 

Aaaaannnndd kit length also includes the Jiboom which is not only attached to the Bowsprit but is also partially attached to it (so its length can be adjusted)  -  the Jiboom was 27ft 1 inch apparently.

 

As a practical example here is a (horribly bad) sketch I did when trying to estimate how big my Amphion would be at size and due to the angles it would be an overestimate in this case.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Matrim
moved image

[Matrim]

Just paid a little more attention to the rest of this thread (as opposed to the message) so some people have noted potential issue with boom and jib. So beyond the extra measurements mine just really adds the horrible sketch no doubt explaining why I went into IT.

 

It's a lovely kit either way and a pleasure to build.

[peterbrowne]

I have now done the same with the Occre 1/45 kit of the HMAV Bounty:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/26961-length-of-occre-hmav-bounty-124-comparison-to-admiralty-plan/

[hornet]

On 11/25/2020 at 1:04 PM, peterbrowne said:

OK, thanks for the replies, and thank you Thunder for your assistance and the images. 

 

The Admiralty plans should be the source of truth.  Those plans have some stated measurements, including extreme deck length,  but not the Length Over All (LOA), which originally means not including any spars.  The rule on the bottom of the plans therefore need to be used to determine LOA.

 

The rule goes from 0 to 90 feet.

 

I have marked zero and 90 feet with vertical red lines in Photoshop.  The zero line is on the base of the stern.  The 90 foot line is approx in the centre of the stem at the bow.  That length is 90 feet.   Measuring out to the forward side of the stem would seem to be about 91 feet, judging by the graduations on the rule.

 

If someone would care to measure that section (as indicated on the image below) on the Caldercraft plans?  That length, 90 feet, if accurate on the Caldercraft plans, should be @ 1/64  428mm...

 

My Caldercraft Bounty - nearing completion appears to be very close to the 428mm 

[peterbrowne]

Cool!  Thanks Hornet, nice looking build!

 

Peter