Cutty Sark by rfolsom - Billing Boats

[NenadM]

Bob, do you follow this and think about ?

 

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1000-cutty-sark-by-keelhauled-mantua-kit-bashed-first-wooden-ship-build/page-4#entry121720

[keelhauled]

Bob,

 

Beautiful work.  The prototype for the deadeyes look great.  Really wonderful work.

 

Marc

[rfolsom]

Thank you, Marc, for your kind words, and it's great to see you're back.

 

Nenad:  Yes, I have followed Marc's progress, and I'm happy to see his new postings;  I have thought about the pump, but now you've sparked me (once again) to address the white paneling on the bulwarks...

 

Bob

[rfolsom]

In my post #62, I show some tests of the white bulwark paneling in a raised format.  I have never been pleased with this inaccurate representation, and Marc and Nenad's techniques have prompted me to try to find another solution.  The thinnest stock I had on hand was 1/32" thick, so combined with the 1/32" bulwarks, and 1/32" uprights, would have made the whole assembly too thich for the 1/8" caprail, which needs to be shaped.  Card was not an option due to staining, sanding etc; carving the ovals into the 1/32" bulwarks (especially in situ on the ship) was beyond my ablility; but I found some 5mm by 0.3mm strip walnut left over from another build; so time for testing...

[rfolsom]

Top photo shows existing buwarks on the ship (yes, very messy after drilling holes for the deadeye shrouds, and discoloration where the pin vise rubbed against the "support" rail that holds the stanchions.)  This is NOT the final coat of paint, nor the finished freeing port, btw.

 

Second photo shows the pieces I will use to replicate a 65 mm section of bulwarks.

 

From top to bottom,

 

1) 1/8 " x 1/16" caprail.

 

2) Lenght of 1/16" x 1/32" basswood, mahogany stained, that will be cut into the 4 to 5 mm uprights.

 

3) 5mm by 0.3 mm walnut veneer, that will be drilled out for ovals, and hopefully save me from making raised panels.

 

4) 1/32" sheet, same as installed bulwarks on ship.

 

5) 1/16" square strip, used as stanchion "support" rail. (also installed on ship)

 

6) 1/8" x 1/16" inch scrap of discarded main rail, complete with holes for 1 deadeye and two belaying pins.

 

I will be testing the painting, layout, staining (the mahogany stain on basswood is darker than the natural walnut)

and shaping of these various pieces, and hopefully come to an acceptable conclusion before  implementing on the actual build.

 

Bob

[rfolsom]

Alright;  First photo shows my test bulwarks as it would appear on the ship, with the stanchion support rail in place (minus the stanchions).  Second photo shows first trial run of a panel section using the 5 x 0.3 mm walnut veneer with the 1/32" x 1/16" stained basswood uprights glued into position.  I drilled two holes  (Marc's idea) and cut between them with an xacto blade.  As this was a trial run,  (a trial run before my test run ) ,  I just wanted to see how the wood reacted with the drill bit.  Hence, the lopsided panel.  But I am encouraged by the result, and hope to fine-tune things by the time this test build is done.  My plan is to do a long stretch of paneling with uprights installed (Nenad's idea).

[keelhauled]

Looks great!  much cleaner than mine. you appear to being doing it the same way that I made mine.  I used a jig to help with the process.

 

I made a jig that spaced the holes and drilled the entire strip/sheet at one time and then when back and connected the holes.  the jig kept the horizontal alignment (with the rail) and spacing consistent.  I wrote it up for you.  Hopefully it is ok that I'm posting it here, I don't want to hi-jack your post, but I thought that it might be helpful to you.

Marc

 

cutout jig 2.pdf

Edited November 11, 2013 by keelhauled

[rfolsom]

Thank you, Marc;  I will probably use a version of your jig when it comes time for the real thing.  Still in the testing process, though...

 

Bob

[NenadM]

... meanwhile ... hmmmmmm

 

the biggest problem for me was to keep the parallel lines ...

Edited November 12, 2013 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Marc;

 

I used your idea to make a jig; mine will fit over the uprights and establish end points for the panels;  which in my build will be of varying lengths.

[NenadM]

Nice and precise work, Bob, and it looks god and in scale.

 

Just thinking : they are 38+38 = 76 and jig is made of wood. Every entry of tool in jig wide it a little bit, so here is danger that panel No70 could be wider than panel No3

 

I experimented with this method of making trench, and I was not satisfied with lines and angles of trenches. If you put in back contrast colour without inserting white pieces, this little anomalies will be pretty visible ( if somebody look at them individually with magnify glass )

 

 

In my panels I try to get straight edge lines (in some I succeed, in some not) and then find solution in playing with contrast. Inserting pieces of white plastic in my trenches were cuted by scalpel and have absolutely straight longitudinal lines, and trenches are very little wider than a white pieces, so I could rotate them transverse a little if it is necessary to get them horizontal and parallel. And, if panels are only 1 x 8 mm, anomalies of trenches with so much darker colour of trenches and surface are less visible

 

I played with contrast also with rounded edges of white pieces. How to round it in straight semicircle if they are about 1,2-1,5 mm wide ? So, I cut little angles as on drawn attached, and from distance in opposite of darker surface, they look rounded

 

 

Go on, I follow with great interesting

 

Nenad

Edited November 13, 2013 by Nenad M

[Dognut]

Hi again Rob,

Once again thanks for your detailed posts - and Nenad for the detailed reply.

 

It struck me that, one "advantage" in my build being so far behind, is that I can look at all the logs, and decide - that worked, that didn't, don't do that, don't even think of this, etc.

 

Now to just get some shipyard time...

[popeye the sailor]

you two gentlemen are really slaving away here..........some very good research and development here    if your going to be cutting these pieces out of flat stock,  it can be done much easier by using strip stock.   I'm sure that evergreen or plastruct sells 1 mm strip stock.....the hobby store that I go to has a huge plastruct display..........they carry it.

[NenadM]

@Popeye, not in Belgrade, not in Serbia

[popeye the sailor]

wow.......that really sad      I never knew of this stuff either,  until I saw the display      ...........and to think.........all these years,  I've been doing it the hard way :D

[keelhauled]

Bob It's looking good! 

Lots of ways of skinning the cat.

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  I am definitely aware of the cumulative errors due to repeat usage of this wooden jig... indeed, I did not want to fashion a jig for this initially (unless it was metal, which I don't have the tools for.)  This is why I'm making a test piece;  when this is finished I will look at it at all angles and try to determine the best course of action.  If I have to fashion two or three more jigs, it won't be a problem...

[rfolsom]

Popeye:  1 mm thick strip would be too thick for my application here;  my bulwarks are much too thick as it is;  that's why I chose 0.3mm walnut veneer in 5 mm x 16 inch strips.  I will definitely consult plastruct in the future... My late father was an avid model railroader, and I'd heard of the product;  but not sure if dad used it at all.  (he hated everything plastic, but maybe he ordered wood or brass from there?)

 

Bob

[NenadM]

Bob, about jig question

 

My first jig was from wood, and results were not so much impresive

 

 

One up, another down, different space to the edge ...

The second jig was made of thin sheet metal of 0.5 mm thick , and was cutted by garden scissors ( dont tell Admiral about that)

 

 

and result was this

 

 

When I removed this bulwark and come to today stage to make panels again, I made last attempt to make a jig from Coca-cola tin, cut with old scissors I have in workshop, but it was too much thin, and so snotty to work with. Then I start again and then use middle solution ( old paint tin) , cut with scissors hardly but it was be done. Make it as close is possible to the dimensions you need

 

As I understand you have Dremel thing or similar ( I scrounge my Einhell for my birthday in April) . If you have it, nice, slow and easy and make your jig with this accessories. If you dont have, you must by it if you can, in my opinion , it is indispensable tool for shipmodeler

 

 

 

Final touch with small metal nail file

 

 

No more than 1-2 working hours to make it

 

To be honest, I had a problem to fix this little jig stay in position while drilling trenches, so if you make it, make it longer and find a way to fix it to stand still.

 

So, also to be honest, since I am by nature a very impatient, I hated to make again more stable jig, and I give up from using jig, and I ask myself to supply the highest concentration that can be achieved, I ordered myself to be extremely careful, slowly and gently, so I did all the trenches only using whole of my feel and sense, first making a thin trench that I have carefully expanded and deepened. If I could go to workshop tonight, and if you are interested, I can get you photos of whole process 

 

And decided that I can live with final result as shown in my log

 

Cheers

 

Nenad 

Edited November 14, 2013 by Nenad M

[rfolsom]

Nenad:  My little jig has a groove cut into it that fits snugly over each upright (I will glue all pre-stained uprights onto the strip of walnut first).  It fits snugly enough so that there is no lateral play whatsoever, and very little rotational and up-and-down play.  I assume that the groove will wear down along with the holes, so a replacement jig or two will be necessary.  I believe I will alternate between port and starboard sides, so when the jig is worn out, and a new one is made, the opposite sides will still appear identical.  Test piece is finished, and a coat of minwax polyurethane is drying on the stained areas... Photo to follow

 

Bob

[rfolsom]

Here's the finished test piece.  Second picture is shown with belaying pin and prototype deadeye/stay assembly.  Third picture is cross section of bulkhead.  This is not perfect by any means, I need to watch glue leakage into the cutouts, and make cutouts more precise,  but I think I can live with it.

 

Bob

[brian2_h]

Hi - my suggestion would be to use a top and bottom 'rail' on the white background and then infill in between as required. Fiddly but probably no worse then trying to cut relevant sized slots in correct position.

 

Not thought of starting my own build log but will do. As I have 2 Cutty Sark builds on the go will set up one under Billing and the other under Del Prado, hope to get them started soon

 

Build does look good  

[NenadM]

Welcome to the CS fleet Brian. We wait your topic and experiences

[rfolsom]

Brian;  in my application, the two rail technique, as I understand it, would be more cumbersome than the approach I'm testing.  My slots are cut in 0.3 mm veneer;  anything more would throw everything off.. Thank you for your input, and I hope my final product will produce adequate results..

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[sudomekh]

...всегда с интересом наблюдаю за строителями клиперов ...у меня тоже много фото тут   http://forum.modelsworld.ru/forum88.html

[Anja]

...всегда с интересом наблюдаю за строителями клиперов ...у меня тоже много фото тут

Always with an eye on the builders clippers: I also have a lot of photos here

 

Hello Sudomekh,

 

This is an English language only forum. Please use English.

As Mark already suggested, you can use Google translate to translate Russian to English. http://translate.google.com/m/translate

 

Thank you.

Anja

[sudomekh]

Thank you! I already knew

Edited November 20, 2013 by sudomekh

[NenadM]

Bob, what us your thinking about this ?

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4407-protective-coating-on-coppered-hull/#entry126761

[rfolsom]

Nenad;  In my build, I do not plan on applying anything over the copper, as the natural patina from  the copper aging is actually pleasing to me.  Some people would probably like to preserve the shiny appearance, and spraying it with a clear coat of some sort would also definitely help with the plates lifting, as mine do from time to time.

My plan is to finish the bulwarks, main and topgallant rails, install the deadeyes, and exterior railing, then flip the ship over and go over the hull, replacing any damaged copper, and install the rudder.  I will then permanently mount the hull to a baseboard with pedestals.

 

This will have the effect of differently aged copper plates;  but to quote from G. Campbell's book, China Tea Clippers :  "A ship could expect to get two Far East voyages before needing recoppering."   "...the deterioration of the plates was piecemeal, a condition which was aggravated progressively as the plates were renewed piecemeal also."

[rfolsom]

Nenad; 

 

First picture shows large discoloration across many copper tiles;  this will not be replaced, probably will use some solvent and see what happens.

 

Second and third pictures show a "drop" or drip, of something on a tile, which I'll replace... You can also see where the corners of the tiles are lifting;  not usually a problem, just smooth them back..  Small scratches, dents, etc. are just fine with me;  not only can I live with them, they show the character of the sheathing...

 

Bob