bruce d Posted January 29, 2021 Share #1 Posted January 29, 2021 Hope someone can help. I assume the thwarts of an early 19th century launch, an English ship’s boat, would be removable. Is that correct? Thanks, Bruce Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted January 29, 2021 Share #2 Posted January 29, 2021 Hi Bruce, I think yes, and not only on launch, but also on longboats of early times. The boats are usualy stowed one in to other in the waist. Alex bruce d 1 Quote Current build: HMS Sphynx, 20 gun ship launched in 1775 at Portsmouth, Hampshire. On the drawing board: HMS Anson, 64 gun third rate ship of the line, launched in 1781 at Plymouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted January 30, 2021 Share #3 Posted January 30, 2021 Agree. Hard to nest boats on deck if you can't take out the thwarts! John mtaylor and bruce d 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution iMustBeCrazy Posted January 30, 2021 Solution Share #4 Posted January 30, 2021 The various tables of scantlings for boats available break down thwarts in to 'main', 'after', 'fore' and 'loose' which might imply that the 'main', 'after' and 'fore' are not loose and most likely have knees. The transcripts of the Bounty mutineers trial include statements the the knees and bolts for both the launch and large cutter had to be retrieved from the chests of the carpenter and carpenters mate. These chests weren't all that big so perhaps only the knees of the main thwart (or thwarts in larger boats) were removable. mtaylor and Mark P 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted January 30, 2021 Share #5 Posted January 30, 2021 Good Morning Bruce; To add to all the replies above, yes, thwarts in many ships' boats were removable. This was to allow flexibility in the cargo which could be ferried in them, for example water casks taken to shore to replenish the ship's supply at a stream. By removing some of the thwarts, 2 parallel rows of casks could be laid end to end in the midships. There is a model in the NMM depicting exactly this. Contracts for the building of boats normally specified the number of fixed and loose thwarts. All the best, Mark P mtaylor 1 Quote Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans. 2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans. Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research. Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share #6 Posted January 30, 2021 Thanks to all who have replied. Craig has found what I was looking for, a specific reference in scantlings to thwarts being described as 'fixed' etc. This did not appear in my sources. It would be interesting, if possible, to date those scantlings. It makes sense of the drawings I have been pondering of launches and other boats adapted to mount cannons or carronades. Mark, I believe we have been looking at the same model. I was thinking of doing something similar for the boat on the deck of my Mediator. Looking at this model and also trawling through images of cannon armed boats the thought occured to me: how did they stack the boats if the centre thwart was fixed? The boats were in many cases capable of carrying guns when required. The slides for these guns varied but looking at the full length versions, the slides were on top of the thwarts. It seems certain that the slides required solid fixings and removable thwarts don't fit in with that idea. Some mountings were shorter and allowed for lowering the gun to improve stability of the boat. These slides all seem to be either side of the centre thwart. I may be chasing my tail here but the two requirements, ie stacking boats and having solid thwarts, seem to contradict one another. If the answer is obvious, I ain't seen it so before I spend a lot of time re-reading every practicum I thought I would ask. Thanks, Bruce mtaylor 1 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipman Posted January 30, 2021 Share #7 Posted January 30, 2021 Out of curiosity.......was there a standard width of thwarts? bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMustBeCrazy Posted January 30, 2021 Share #8 Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, shipman said: Out of curiosity.......was there a standard width of thwarts? Probably the safest way to answer this is that there are tables giving standardized sizes but that size varied by boat type, boat length and thwart position/type. Edited January 30, 2021 by iMustBeCrazy bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote Craig. I do know, that I don't know, a whole lot more, than I do know. Current Build: 1:16 Bounty Launch Scratch build. 1:16 Kitty -18 Foot Racing Sloop 1:50 Le Renard HM Cutter Lapwing 1816 Lapwing Drawings Completed....: 1:16 16' Cutter Scratch build. Discussion....: Bounty Boats Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 30, 2021 Share #9 Posted January 30, 2021 Shipman, Pick a boat and you will get answers for sure. There are scantlings by Steel and more information in Boats of Men of War by W.E. May Scantlings for boats of about 1800 that show main thwarts from 7" broad for a 16 foot cutter to 12 inches for main thwarts for a 32 foot longboat. Pinnaces and yawls were from 9" to 10" broad. Loose thwarts for a 16 foot cutter were 7" broad up to 9" broad for a 32 foot longboat. After thwarts ranged from 7" on a 16 foot yawl to 9" on all longboats. Forward thwarts ranged from 7" on a 16 foot yawls, to 9" on all launches and 10" on all longboats. Pick a boat and size and there is information available for each. Earlier scantlings give thicknesses of main and loose thwarts, but I could not find any dimensions for their breadth but would assume they would be similar to those in the 1800 scantlings. Allan iMustBeCrazy, bruce d, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted January 31, 2021 Share #10 Posted January 31, 2021 My longboat model built to plans in May’s book includes three fixed thwarts; one in the bow, one at the mast partners, and one just forward of the stern sheets. These fixed thwarts are each fastened with knees into the rising strake. The other thwarts are loose. Both the NMM “Medway” longboat model and the longboat model in the Krigstein Collection are arranged the same way. By the 1840’s navies had switched to launches instead of longboats and the US Navy specified that all thwarts In launches be loose. The ends of the thwarts were to be reinforced with iron plates and were to be secured with removable iron pins through holes and passing into iron brackets. mtaylor, allanyed and bruce d 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.