UK alternative for Minwax Wipe-on poly?

[James H]

Can anyone help with an alternative to Minwax Wipe-on poly, in the UK?

 

There is some Minwax on Amazon, but I'm loathe to spending around £30 for a tin of something that I don't know is as good.

 

I'm using this for the Granado section and still need to be able to glue once applied. I definitely need 'tried and tested' 🤣

 

Jim

[Blue Ensign]

Minwax is seriously overpriced in the UK at least.

 

I simply make my own using Blackfriar clear polyurethane varnish (not the nasty water-based versions) diluted with White Spirit to around 50%

Used it on my Cheerful Boxwood build and recent Vanguard Fifie and Zulu builds, suits me Sir. 👍

 

B.E.

[Gregory]

B.E. Is right on..  We had a discussion recently that established WOP is just thinned, regular  varnish.

 

So, any quality varnish ( not water based ) thinned with mineral spirits is as good as it gets, at a fraction of the cost..

Edited February 25, 2021 by Gregory

[James H]

36 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said:

Minwax is seriously overpriced in the UK at least.

 

I simply make my own using Blackfriar clear polyurethane varnish (not the nasty water-based versions) diluted with White Spirit to around 50%

 

 

Used it on my Cheerful Boxwood build and recent Vanguard Fifie and Zulu builds, suits me Sir. 👍

 

 

 

B.E.

 

Thanks for that. So you use satin? Have you a photo of exactly what you are using?

Sounds silly, but I presume you literally just wipe a thin layer over the timber?

 

 

27 minutes ago, Gregory said:

B.E. Is right on..  We had a discussion recently that established WOP is just thinned, regular  varnish.

 

So, any quality varnish ( not water based ) thinned with mineral spirits is as good as it gets, at a fraction of the cost..

I have a bottle of this. I presume it's suitable?

 

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Bartoline-19925070-750ml-Spirit-White/dp/B005EFUSQW/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=bartoline+white+spirit&qid=1614275375&s=diy&sr=1-2

 

I'll do a search for that topic.

[Gregory]

4 minutes ago, James H said:

I have a bottle of this. I presume it's suitable?

That looks like it is what you want!

 

For application, depending on the surface,  I keep it in a plastic squeeze bottle and put a little directly on the surface and spread it around with a soft cloth, eventually wiping off all the excess.  For smaller parts, and stuff like masts and spars, I will brush it on and let it sit a few minutes before wiping off.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Gregory

[Blue Ensign]

Satin was what was available but any spirit based polyurethane would probably do, matt or satin.

The pot is my diluted wipe-on, it drips readily off the stirrer but does tend to thicken over time requiring addition of further white spirit.

If there is plenty of space I wipe it on, but for small areas I use a brush but well layed off.

I would use any white spirit available in local stores, in fact I’ve used the make you show, but don’t use turpentine.

B.E.

 

[Gregory]

18 minutes ago, James H said:

I'll do a search for that topic.

I've searched and haven't nailed it down, but I think an item that convinced me was this video:    WOP

[James H]

Ok, just bought a tin of Rustins poly satin which will be with me on Saturday.

Looking forward to giving this a try. 👍

[Bob Cleek]

37 minutes ago, James H said:

Ok, just bought a tin of Rustins poly satin which will be with me on Saturday.

Looking forward to giving this a try. 👍

There's really no point in buying "satin" if you are going to wipe it on. If you thin gloss material and wipe it on, it's going to dry satin anyway. "Canned satin" will work, so go ahead and use it, but the problem with canned satin polys and varnishes is that they are made by adding fine "dust" to dull the gloss and you must regularly stir the stuff in the can to keep the "dust" in even suspension in the material. (Varnishes are always stirred, never shaken. Shaking ads minute bubbles to it which will ruin the finish.) Those who don't know this will often apply "satin" finishes right out of the material at top of a can in which the "satin dust" has settled and then can't figure out why their finish turned out glossy.

 

Another thing to remember is that satin polys and varnishes almost always do not have any UV inhibitor added, so they don't resist UV degradation anywhere near those with UV inhibitors. This may not be a big deal with models that are never placed in direct sunlight, but no professional yacht painter worth their salt will ever use a satin varnish on anything that's going to be exposed to direct sunlight. The proper practice for producing a satin clear finish is to use a quality gloss coating with UV protection and then flatten the gloss by hand rubbing when it's dry with rottenstone and/or pumice or a fine Scotch-brite pad to obtain a uniform satin finish. Manufacturer-compounded "satin" clear finishes only mimic a quality hand rubbed finish and are quite inferior to the real thing. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[Bob Cleek]

21 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Well that explains why my preferred satin  finish (Ronseal) used sometimes dried glossy. I dilute it nowaday with about 50 % white spirit and dont meet the problem anymore

I'll bet you stir it well after adding the white spirits, right?

 

 

[Nemo1966]

@Bob Cleek If thinning down gloss Poly varnish gives a satin look, then Minwax Gloss wipe on poly is NOT simply thinned down Poly Varnish as @Gregory stated... if it was it would be Satin. 😋

[Bob Cleek]

16 hours ago, Nemo1966 said:

@Bob Cleek If thinning down gloss Poly varnish gives a satin look, then Minwax Gloss wipe on poly is NOT simply thinned down Poly Varnish as @Gregory stated... if it was it would be Satin. 😋

No, Nemo. I don't think you are quite clear on the concept. If you wipe on a "gloss" finish, it's not going to be glossy... at least not until you hand rub a whole lot of coats and build some depth and then rub to a very high degree of smoothness.  Canned "satin" finishes, as marketed by manufacturers, are simply gloss finishes (and all oil finishes are "gloss" finishes) to which a "flattening agent," generally a fine dust of some time, has been added so that the coating dries with a less smooth finish due to all the dirt in it. The purpose of these canned "satin" finishes is to mimic the look of a gloss finish that has had some of the gloss knocked off by hand rubbing with pumice and rottenstone.

[Tony McC]

Gentlemen, many thanks for the conversation and info.

[Tony McC]

On 2/25/2021 at 5:14 PM, Blue Ensign said:

Minwax is seriously overpriced in the UK at least.

 

I simply make my own using Blackfriar clear polyurethane varnish (not the nasty water-based versions) diluted with White Spirit to around 50%

 

 

Used it on my Cheerful Boxwood build and recent Vanguard Fifie and Zulu builds, suits me Sir. 👍

 

 

 

B.E.

 

thanks for the tip. Can I ask about the 50%? Do you mean I should add 50ml white spirit to 50ml of Varnish? Or should I add 50ml of white spirit to 100ml of varnish? 

thanks for the help.

Tony

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Tony,

I use equal amounts of varnish and white spirit  mixed together.

Wipe it on, and immediately wipe it off for initial protection, apply further coats for a deeper colour.

 

B.E.

[Bob Cleek]

I frequently simply mix "boiled" linseed oil and turpentine and rub it on. ("Boiled" linseed oil isn't really boiled. It simply has some Japan drier added to it to speed polymerization.) 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Ahoy, Tony !  I used to like the 'Minwax of Old' for general woodworking, but it has been significantly re-formulated to comply with VOC reduction ... likely a good thing.  Now, as then, it really takes 3 or 4 days to dry - and in the interim it gives off a distinctive odor - a litttle less each day.  Its still good as a colorant, as I had to match some unfinished red oak stair 'bull-nose' to pre-finished 3/4" tongue and groove red oak flooring.  I started with Minwax that was a little lighter (and a slightly different chroma) than the flooring, then added small amounts of artists' oil colors (thinned with a little Minwax clear).  Just a little at a time to the container used for mixing enough for the need, as it is hard to 'lighten' if one goes to far.  A test piece of oak was used and compared to the finished flooring (which had some color variations inherent due to variations in grade.  Also I was using #2 common, less expensive than pricy #1 - yet still much better than the next lower grade.).  

 

  'Seems that Minwax is fully compatible with artist oils, and to be sure of my color (after 'force drying' the test piece with a blow dryer) a little clear varnish was applied over to get the sheen of the pre-finished flooring - and the color would be 'flat' without the top coat of varnish.  It looked good, so I went ahead and treated all the bull-nose needed.  One day later I applied the clear Varnish (Varathane clear - a different brand name, but also compatible with Minwax)  and the next day was able to go ahead doing the landing into our sunken family room ...  We can't tell that anything was matched, it looks that good.

 

  Right now, I'm restoring a very old Gorch Fock model that had the deck and masting coated in varnish 'back in the day'.  The varnish prevented any dirt and grime from getting into the surface of the wood.  I was able to use slightly soapy water, isopropanol and acetone (on that order) to get off all the gunk - which may have had 70 years of tobacco smoke, dust, aerosols and grime built up (especially on the decks).  In fact, I used a low-angle carpenter's chisel to 'holy stone' the deck (gently, as to not compromise the original protective layer of varnish) - and I'm amazed how much stiff came off to reveal the beauty concealed below.  This raises my opinion of varnish as a protectant (especially is a model will not be cased, as was the case with the one I found neglected in an antique shop).

 

  If wood is conditioned with 'boiled' linseed oil (and unless it says 'raw' linseed oil on the container, it will have a 'dryer' in it), it is advisable to mix it 50-50 with ordinary turpentine.  Some woods will darken with this application, such as walnut or mahogany ... mush less so with lighter woods.  If a few days go by, the turpentine (which assisted penetration of the linseed oil) will have 'out-gassed', leaving the linseed oil to cross-link by the action of the dryer.  I have a tin of 'Japan dryer' (enough to last a lifetime), and am in the habit of adding a drop per half pint of linseed oil or any oil-based paint to insure good drying.

 

  Once oiled wood has out-gassed, it will accept either varnish or shellac as a top coat.  I happen to like shellac (amber or clear, depending on the wood), but caution to use product no much beyond the expiration stamped on the can of pre-mixed shellac (e.g. Zinnser) - much easier than making ones own from shellac flakes.  If shellac is used, it can be removed by alcohol (if needed), so future cleaning cannot be done with alcohol.