Phantom by FlounderFillet5 - Model Shipways - Pilot Boat

[hamilton]

Hi Max:

 

Here we go! I've coppered 2 models and it is quite tedious! Question - did the copper plates come pre-cut on your phantom? I had to cut mine out of a wider (1/4") roll of copper tape.....have fun!

hamilton

[FlounderFillet5]

Hamilton, this is my first ever attempt at coppering but it is proving to be tedious as you said.  It is taking forever and I only have the bottom of the keel and one side of the keel done(the first row on the side of the keel, not one half of the hull being coppered) and am working on the other.  Like yours, my kit came supplied with a roll of 1/4" wide copper tape which I am then using a small jig to cut 1/8" long pieces off of.  I will post a picture of this when I start cutting more plates.  Are you currently coppering a hull or are you already done?

[samueljr]

Flounder,

 

You're decking looks super!

 

You're PHANTOM is proving a great point - that subject matter doesn't  have to be a 100 gunner or a a intricately rigged frigate to be a well thought out and executed model. 

[gulfmedic1]

Flounder

I cant seem to find many references or pics on this vessel, where are you getting your inforamation to reference what the vessel looked like

[SkerryAmp]

Nice work Max.

 

Regarding the Copper - I actually found just letting it "age" on it's own gave it a nice finish.  Didn't quite green out (like oxidize) but it definitely darkened up a bit and gave it an overall aged look.

 

-Adam

[FlounderFillet5]

Sam, thank you.  I am doing my best on this model to see where my skills were when I got into this hobby and I figure it will give me a great reference down the line once I build my skill set and am doing that 100 gunner you speak of.

 

 

Gulfmedic,  so far I have only been using the plans, Chuck's practicum, and what I remember from all the old build logs on the original MSW.  I tried finding information on this ship when I first got the kit but had very limited success.  The other big thing is just thinking about things before building them.  I try and think of the scale and figure out what would make sense full scale first.  For instance, the deck houses' roof planking and the foootboards that go around them are all 1/64" thick.  I had a bunch of 1/32" thick strips of wood but when I thought about it, I realized that would mean they would all be 3" at full scale which seemed awfully thick in my mind.  So I made a little jig and thinned the strips down to 1/64" so that they would be 1.5" at full scale which still might be slightly oversized but it is definitely closer to the right size.

 

By the way, glad to see you back around these parts again.  Your Phantom build is off to a great start, do you see any time to work on her in the near future?  If you have any other questions, ask away, I am always willing to help where I can.

 

 

Adam, I figured that it would change a bit over time but haven't really seen many pictures of what it looks like.  If you have them, would you mind uploading a couple pics, maybe one from around when you first built her and another from now so we can see the difference?  Don't go out of your way, but if you have them, I would love to see them.  I have come to the conclusion that the 100% Patina-It is way to concentrated for this application, I might play around with some diluted solutions to see if I get a more desirable result.

 

 

Update:

 

As for the build, this coppering business is very slow going, I think it is going to take a while to finish up, I have been spending a LOT of time working on it and just don't make much progress.  I also started building a homemade hand drill lathe that I plan to use later in this build once I get to shaping the masts and spars.  I basically started that project to break the monotony of coppering haha.  I am also trying to find some suitable material and a good technique for doing the masts as I am leaning toward adding them to this project to fill in the upper area of the model.  In my mind, the models with very complex rigging look nice with or without the sails but I feel like there will be something to be desired with this model if I don't add them.

[hamilton]

Hi Max:

 

No I haven't coppered a hull in a while - though the Syren is up on the shelf right now, so it won't be too long before I'm at it again. I've only done 2 coppered hulls - the Phantom and the Kate Cory. If you have something good to listen to while you're doing this task it's not that bad....keep at it and it'll get done eventually!

hamilton

[gulfmedic1]

Flounder

Life took priority for a while so I had to take a break. Which was good I was getting frustrated but after following you and hopeful I got a bunch of good ideas and realized I need to slow down and concentrate on the details not the finishing I will be staring back up soon

Great build and explanations by the way

Also I found the plans for that dremel table it is great il plan on building it soon

[FlounderFillet5]

Hamilton, you are right, I have discovered that Pandora is my friend for this process!  lol

 

Gulfmedic, I understand about life taking priority.  I had to put my build on hold for about 6 months or so and am now just getting back to it, no worries, she will be there when you have time for her.  One lesson I learned from one of the more experienced members on MSW 1.0 was to treat every little step as a project of its own.  That way, you will be completing lots of little projects and feel some accomplishment AND once you finish your model in that manner, you will have a much better looking model than if you just rush to finish her.  Thanks for the support, sometimes I feel like I am WAY too long winded.  The Dremel table saw is quite useful, I am still planning on upgrading to a Byrnes saw, hopefully soon, but this DIY one has proven its worth already.  One thing of note, you may want to make it a little bit taller because with the dremel 4000 at least, the cord hangs down further than the surface the table saw is sitting on.  Just something to keep in mind.

[gulfmedic1]

Flounder

Thanks good advise funny how easy it is to miss the obvious.

[FlounderFillet5]

For anyone interested in the little jig I am using to cut the copper tape into plates, here it is.  This is not an original idea, I got the idea from more than one other build logs, SteveM's comes to mind but I am not 100% sure that is where I got it.

 

Pretty simple, Chuck's practicum tells you to cut the 1/4" tape into two strips of 1/8" strips and cut 1/4" lengths from those.  That seems like it introduces more opportunity for human error to compound and produce a sub par product(in my newbie hands at least).  The solution?  Cut 1/8" pieces from the already sized 1/4" wide tape.  I can see that Chuck's method would produce plates with one perfectly straight side length wise for all the plates which would be nice but this method seems to produce acceptable plates.

 

Here are the pictures:

 

 

 

 

Rinse and repeat about 1,500 times and you're done!

Edited August 12, 2013 by FlounderFillet5

[usedtosail]

Is it hard to get the paper backing off those tiny plates? I found that using the half width strip and cutting each plate so that only the copper was cut (not the paper) made it easier to separate the plates from the paper backing.

[samueljr]

Flounder,

 

Keep up the good work

 

Sam

[FlounderFillet5]

Hey guys, 

 

Popping in with a quick update.  First, replying to posts.

 

Tom,  I haven't had too much trouble getting the paper off the backs of the plates, I find that most of the plates have a small separation somewhere on its perimeter where I can get my tweezers in.  Your way may be easier or more efficient but I have already cut most of my plates, I might need to do one more batch of plates to finish up the copper job.

 

Sam,  As always, I am doing my best.  This process is slow and difficult to get just right.  But I'm getting through it and its turning out alright.

 

Now for the update:

 

I have been working long and hard on knocking this copper job out.  It is very slow, mind numbing work.  It should be done in the next few days and it should definitely be done before my personal deadline of next Monday when classes start back up.  That reminds me, with classes gearing up, I may not have much time to work this semester as it is looking like a very difficult and time consuming semester.  I will get in some building where I can though!

 

As for the copper job, I have finally completed the port side of the hull with the exception of the final band at the waterline.  I am going to hold off on the final band until both sides are done and I can do a quick touch-up of the hull's paint.  At this point, what's one more coat? haha.  

 

A pic of the port side pretty much completed.

 

 

I have been using Chartpak graphic tape to line up the plates.  It works like a charm to get everything pretty even;  All you need to do is burnish the plates up to the tape and that's it.  I found that technique in someone else's build log a while back but I can't recall whose, just know that it is not an original idea.  At first, I was only able to find 1/8" which worked decent but it was a little hard to get it properly lined up.  I recently found some 1/32" and 1/64" tape at a local art supply store and they work much better.  I prefer the 1/32" out of the two and that is what is pictured below.

 

 

Let me know what you guys think.  It is far from perfect but it is coming along.

[usedtosail]

The copper is looking great, Max. I like you use of the tape to line up the plates. Mine were a bit wavy as I tried to go free hand.

[FlounderFillet5]

Hey guys, 

 

Alas, the copper plating is finished!  It is such a relief to have finally finished that project.  I think it looks passable but there is definite room for improvement.  I give the guys who do a great copper job all the credit in the world, wow.  Anyway, here are the pictures of the finished project.

 

 

 

Im not sure what happened to the waterline on this side.  The line had faded almost completely but I thought I could make it out, apparently not.  The port side waterline came out a bit better, still not perfect though.

 

 

Well, I am super happy to be done with this portion of the build.  Next will be installing the rudder, cutting and installing the bulwark stanchions, and then the cap rail, bowsprit and the small details around deck level.  The build should be picking up in productivity, which will be nice considering I will have much less time for the next few months.  

 

Until next time,

[trippwj]

Looks good, Maestro!!!

[hamilton]

Looking great! Now that the coppering's behind you the build will really start to move! Looking forward to seeing more

hamilton

[FlounderFillet5]

Hey guys,

 

Wayne, thanks for stopping in!  I just noticed we have the same quote in our signatures just with different wording, how funny.

 

Hamilton, as I mentioned in my previous post, I am so relieved to have finally finished the coppering and I agree that the build will start to move along at a better pace now.  In fact, this update has multiple mini projects which were completed.

 

Update time:

 

This update is a bit picture heavy, sorry.  Also, this update is one in which the camera shows every flaw!  Anyways, I created the pintles and gudgeons for attaching the rudder and it is now attached.  The work of creating and installing the bulwark stanchions is also finished.

 

I cut a strip of brass measuring 1/32" x 1/64" off of a sheet of 1/32" thick brass I had laying around.  Then, to create the bends in the material, I clamped about 3/16" in a set of pliers and used my jeweler's hammer to hammer it flat against the flat side of the pliers I was using.  Then, just bent the second bend the best I could in the tight space about 1/8" up the strip and snipped off.  I was happy to get to use my jeweler's hammer for this because I just picked it up at the IPMS nationals which had something like 20,000 square feet dedicated to vendors and came fairly close to my stomping grounds.  On a side note, it was mostly all plastic models in the competition but there were about 5 wooden ship models there as well, one being the MS Niagara which is a ship I will likely build in the future (debating on that being my next project).  Back on topic, here are the rudder pintles before being painted and attached.  

 

 

I then painted them black along with the gudgeons and used epoxy to affix it all to the rudder and hull.  Chuck used a piece of wire in the hinge but I figured that won't be seen and the epoxy should be more than capable of holding the rudder in place.  The full scale measurements of the pintles and gudgeons are 3" tall and 1.5" thick which seemed reasonable to me.  Everything in this picture looks horrendous!  Once I saw the picture I looked very closely and decided I may do a little touch up of the paint but most of the flaws are not noticeable to the naked eye and it definitely passes the 5-foot test as it stands now.

 

 

When I was cutting the brass strip, it created a bunch of brass dust which I thought I would save for a future project maybe to be used as gold inside a chest or something.  I don't know for sure if it will prove to be of any use but I really did think it looked a lot like gold lol.  

 

 

Next, the bulwark stanchions.  I took pictures every step of the way except for ripping the strip of wood I used for them, so there are a lot of pictures here.

 

First, I marked the locations where the bulwark stanchions will be by using a strip of 1/4" square basswood and a sharpie.  I must have screwed up a little bit on the rear quarterdecks because one side has one more than the other.  No big deal but I thought I would mention it.

 

 

 

Next, I cut small lengths of wood from the 3/64" square strip of boxwood I ripped from a 3/64" thick sheet.  These dimensions are from Chuck's practicum where he calls for 1.2mm wood and these are about 1.15mm, pretty close. 

 

 

Following Chuck's instructions, I made each one a little too long.

 

 

Next, each one was filed down to be flush with the top of the bulwarks.

 

 

Here are a couple pictures of the bulwark stanchions installed from both the bow and stern of the ship.

 

 

 

Now on to installing the cap rail, bulwark details like cleats and eye bolts, fabricating the splash rail and fairleads, and then drilling the mast holes.  I like when there are a bunch of small projects to work on, it makes the build more enjoyable for me.  See you next time!

Edited August 24, 2013 by FlounderFillet5

[hamilton]

Looks great! The bulwarks look to be at a perfect thickness - I sped through mine a little too hastily (first build, and all) and though the result was fine, this outstrips it by a long mile. 

hamilton

[mmott]

Wow is all i can say. I am waiting for my Phantom and this thread is surely an inspiration of what can be accomplished. i hope I can come to you later with some questions.

 

Mark

[FlounderFillet5]

Hamilton, thanks for the support, the bulwarks were a little bit tough and I ended up shedding some blood, making a late night trip to the ER and getting my first stitches ever.  They better look good!  If you are interested, when I was carving out the bulwarks at the aft end of the ship where the grain of wood is not ideal for carving the way that is needed for the bulwarks and the wood gave way and I learned very quickly to make sure the area behind whatever you are working on is clear.  I wanted to just use some gap filling CA and call it good but the wife insisted we go to the ER when she saw that there was fat coming out of the wound, probably the right call. lol.

 

Mark, welcome to my build log and thanks for the kind words!  Feel free to ask away if you think of any questions, I'll answer to the best of my ability.  

 

As for the build, I have been working on carving out a new cap rail since the one I carved out originally did not fit properly and it was not wide enough to cover the bulwark stanchions.  It has proven difficult because the wood at the aft end (same area that broke and gave me stitches) keeps breaking and then I have to re-glue it together and make a little more progress before it breaks again.  I will post pictures once I finish carving it out.  

 

On a side note, I think I underestimated how little time I will have for the next few months to work on this build.  Again, I will work on it when I can but my courses will take up most of my time.

[trippwj]

Ouch!  But, then again, what model has been built without a small amount of blood, sweat and cursing? 

 

Good luck with the courses, Max - we'll be here when you get time to build!

[hamilton]

Hamilton, thanks for the support, the bulwarks were a little bit tough and I ended up shedding some blood, making a late night trip to the ER and getting my first stitches ever.  They better look good!  If you are interested, when I was carving out the bulwarks at the aft end of the ship where the grain of wood is not ideal for carving the way that is needed for the bulwarks and the wood gave way and I learned very quickly to make sure the area behind whatever you are working on is clear.  I wanted to just use some gap filling CA and call it good but the wife insisted we go to the ER when she saw that there was fat coming out of the wound, probably the right call. lol.

 

 

Hi Max:

 

Whoa! I do recall shedding blood on the Phantom (in fact on all my builds so far - except the latest one....) but nowhere near stitches!! Funny you mention using CA to patch yourself up, since I believe that CA was first developed for just such a purpose for field medics....but maybe you knew this already! Hope you're healing up well - and congratulations on lasting till now with no stitches - my first were at age 4 - right along my hairline on my forehead. The family joke is that it's my lobotomy scar.....

hamilton

[gulfmedic1]

Ok, so I built a little table saw for use with my dremel 4000 to make the grating.  I found the plans online, if anyone is interested you can find the instructions here:

 

http://www.instructables.com/id/Mini-Tablesaw-Router-Shaper-for-Dremel-rotary-/

 

Its no Byrnes saw, but it did the job ok.

 

Table_Saw.jpg

 

I cut a piece of 1/32" boxwood.  Then cut channels doing my best to keep them a consistent distance from one another.  Each cut is about 1/64" deep in the wood.

 

Cockpit_Grating.jpg

 

Next, cut strips in the other direction.

 

Cockpit_Grating_2.jpg

 

Here is a comparison of the difference in size.  The kit supplied strips are up top, and the bottom two sets of strips are mess ups that I was testing stain on, trying to match the color of the accent strip which will be used later in the project.

 

Cockpit_Grating_4.jpg

 

The stained and glued grate, just needs to be cut to size but I will wait a little while before doing that.  Will need to repaint the cockpit area and apply poly to all the planked surfaces.  

 

Cockpit_Grating_6.jpg

 

A reference for size.

 

Cockpit_Grating_7.jpg

Max i am making the same table saw from instructables good little saw, I am a Dremel freak, lol...just curious how did you make the little cuts in the wood so shallow?

[samueljr]

Max

 

The PHANTOM looks great! Glad to see you're back at it (even if for a short periord of time). 

 

Take a semester off from school and work on the PHANTOM - I skip work all the time!............LOL!

 

Sam

[FlounderFillet5]

Gulf,

 

What I did to make the shallow cuts was I had a second plexiglass sheet that I made a mistake on while cutting the little slit for the saw blade and I used both stacked on one another to make the saw blade not protrude nearly as much. When I tested it on some wood, it was still too deep of a cut and cut right through the wood so I began trying to use scraps of wood of various thicknesses to sandwich between the two plexiglass sheets until I found the setup that gave me the depth of cut I was looking for. Just keep in mind that this was not a precise method and was likely not the safest one either so if you try it out, be sure to have safety in mind and clamp down your plexiglass sandwich quite well so nothing slips and you don't end up shedding blood like I did earlier in the build haha.

 

Sam,

 

I think the Admiral would not take too kindly to me taking a ship building leave of absence from school but that sure would be nice! Lol. I have actually been doing a little bit of work on my Benjamin Latham kit (build log to come) but I'm a little intimidated by the whole POB thing and I might come back to my Phantom to make some good progress before school starts back up again. I still need to build my little home made wood turning lathe for the masts on this ship and I think this break might be the perfect opportunity to do so. If I do, I will probably document that little side project here as I will be using it on this build.

[gulfmedic1]

Max thanks for the info. I would really like to see what you do for a mini lathe, i have been researching that side project for some time now

[FlounderFillet5]

Why hello again, it has been about six months since my last update and that is mostly due to not doing much building... until now!  I hope you all have been doing well.  I have made a bit of progress since my last update.  

 

First, here are pictures of the cap rail.  Basically, I used my thinning jig to thin the cap rail blank down to approximately 1/64" of an inch.  Then I just carved out the inside and, this time, it fit properly so I glued it into place.

 

 

 

 

Next, I decided to modify the eye bolts and cleats to make them closer to being in scale.  All I did for the eye bolts was take some pliers and bent the wire into a smaller loop, cut them to a proper length, and blackened them.

 

 

As for the the cleats, this was a few step process:

(from left to right)

- Untouched cleat

- Cut/file off the little tab at the bottom

- Make a center hole with an awl for drilling

- Drill an appropriate diameter hole that will fit the eye bolt wire, I think I used a #78 drill bit but don't quote me on that.

- Glue an eye bolt into the drilled hole and let glue set (These were cut first and then the eye bolts were made from the remaining end)

- File down the cleat until it is closer to scale size (I left these oversized (out of scale) a bit because I figure I am going to need some extra area on them for the rigging line.

- Cut the wire so that it protrudes about the thickness of your bulwark stanchions (Not pictured)

 

 

Here are the cleats all done and ready to be installed.

 

 

Next, I drilled holes in the appropriate bulwark stanchions (found on the plans) with the same size drill bit used on the cleats.

Here are pictures of the eye bolts, cleats, and cap rail installed.

 

 

 

That is the progress I made over the past few months.  Let me know what you guys think!

 

My next post will be the progress I made this weekend.

[FlounderFillet5]

Now for the progress I have made this weekend.  Man, it feels good to be building again, stress relief.  This weekend I have made the fairleads, splash rails, drilled the mast holes, made the mast coats, and made my lathe.

 

The fairleads were pretty straight forward to make, I just followed chucks instructions and cut the manila folder bases with dimensions from the plans, and bent some of the black wire that came with the kit.  Glue and paint and you're done!

 

 

 

The splash rails were kinda fun for me to make because this was the first time that I have successfully bent wood.  Here is a picture of the jig I used to make the bends.  I just soaked the wood in some hot tap water and then threw them into the jig to dry over night.  

 

 

The following day, I filed them down to the proper shape, added in the little notch and painted.

 

 

The mast holes were a little bit of a challenge to drill properly.  I drilled them using a guide I made with a piece of manila folder, stepping up in sized about 7 times in the drilling process.

 

 

Despite stepping up the drill bit diameters little by little, the larger drill bits still damaged the deck planking a bit.  This is a pic of what the deck looked like after drilling the 9/64" holes.

 

 

Because of the damage, I decided to make the mast coats from the boxwood sheet I had for the cap rail.  I drilled through the deck planking with a larger bit but still left the holes smaller than needed.  I used my exacto knife to widen the holes to the proper diameter to fit the mast coats.

 

 

Making the mast coats was a relatively simple process, I just drilled the 9/64" holes in the sheet of boxwood and cut/filed the wood until they were a reasonable diameter.

 

 

Lastly, this weekend, I finally built my DIY lathe.  I will make one more post detailing the lathe.

 

Hope you all enjoy!