Glory of the Seas 1869 by Vladimir_Wairoa - FINISHED - 1:72 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

Wonderful work Vlad....you're moving along nicely.

 

What mast are you adding the jackstay too?

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Wonderful work Vlad....you're moving along nicely.

 

What mast are you adding the jackstay too?

 

Rob

Thanks much Rob. Only to mainast. IS IT wrong? I Will wait for the book to see details now, but I follow rigging in Michaels book where IT IS quite detailed.

About cathead. I depicted IT from fish plan...two chain releases are there to choose from though...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Few from Yardsworks bunch...

 

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Hamlet question. to be or not to be...sailrig or only standing &running.  sails or not sails  furled or spread:) 

 

Im slowly thinking this ahead of time counting blocks needed etc... seeing Rob is already making furled sails. 

What I would like to achieve is to have her partially sailed, something like towing out to open sea from the ports....topsails spread and rest furled...

 

but at the same time i definitely want to avoid entire mess of full sail blocks attqched though. simplest idea to achieve that is going for only standing&running at most...but as wanted to have few sails up and others furled im not sure i can avoid that ...well anything can be done at least full sails must be rigged properly to show but empty yards with furled sails on them i could spare unused blocks what do you think? 

this are inspirations im more less after. 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, when you share images, please don't overlap them. It's not possible to see all examples you show this way. Depicting a working ship in the process of being towed out would add more interest and realism to your vessel. I'm not sure if this would lower the amount of blocks used, since all running rigging would still be necessary, maybe Rob can share more insight into your concern. I would think that the six lower & upper topsails would be the first set. Main courses would probably be getting readied to be lowered and the rest would still probably be tightly fueled. Good luck!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Thanks Rich. 

I left rigging aside fór a moment and returned to deck.  continue with improving stuff on the deck...lifeboats etc... I started with fife rail and bilge pump. ditched old poor one.  I tried if i Can make one very simple, without soldering, here IS the outcome..

Nothing special but hopefully Will do the trick. Fife rail was quite complex build around columns as i wanted IT to be rigid as possible. they were Made solid as hell...

 .thank you

 

 

[rwiederrich]

Great job Vlad...but before you glue that pump down, correct the flywheel's location ....  They are not on the inside of the rail, but the outside.

 

How do you suspect a human is suppose to hold the handle on the pump and rotate it with it on the inside of the fife rail? 

 

People always seam to get this wrong.

 

Rob

Edited February 8, 2022 by rwiederrich

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

36 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Great job Vlad...but before you glue that pump down, correct the flywheel's location ....  They are not on the inside of the rail, but the outside.

 

How do you suspect a human is suppose to hold the handle on the pump and rotate it with it on the inside of the fife rail? 

 

People always seam to get this wrong.

 

Rob

Thank you Rob. oh ok,  I relied on Michael Mjelde drawing in book. I will move it out sure. always better to compare photos with pics thanks V. 

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, beautiful work on the Mainmast fire rail and bilge pump. The sole concern that I have is the gaps on your 2 pump flywheels. I've attached a link to the Baclutha website with specific focus on her Bilge pump. While Rob's correct that Glory's pump wheels mount outside the rail, Balclutha's mount inside. There are handles which attach to the wrought iron crankshaft, which similar to how an old Model T Ford's engine would be turned over is how the flywheel crankshaft would be turned over. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/batgurrl.net/2021/07/03/demise-of-a-clipper-ship-on-endolyne-beach/amp/

 

Rob, Vladimir while looking for more images of Glory's bilge pump, I came across Michael Mjelde's deck plan illustration. It's also inaccurate as it shows the flywheels inside the main fire rail, while photos clearly show they were mounted outside. This is a somewhat poignant article and indicates her final resting place as well. Scroll through the images and you'll also see a magazine excerpt showing her beautiful figurehead described as being 90" tall.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

39 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/batgurrl.net/2021/07/03/demise-of-a-clipper-ship-on-endolyne-beach/amp/

 

Rob, Vladimir while looking for more images of Glory's bilge pump, I came across Michael Mjelde's deck plan illustration. It's also inaccurate as it shows the flywheels inside the main fire rail, while photos clearly show they were mounted outside. This is a somewhat poignant article and indicates her final resting place as well. Scroll through the images and you'll also see a magazine excerpt showing her beautiful figurehead described as being 90" tall.

Thanks for comment and  fine images Rich, i see those cylinder are a bit different but im glad i depicted overall shape and function. I dont have tools working skills and capacity to go with tremendous details at his scale to make it aby different i Guess. I need to have run doing IT and i had fun thats good enough fór me.

 

 

Little from yards closure mechanism roupded from one piece. ..I try to keep rounded and Elegant. No hilarious details fór me AS leathered inside etc...i like IT this way enough...:) Simple opening Works like a charm. 

3 done 7 more to go.... Exhausting

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
Add

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

@ClipperFan

@rwiederrich

 

Gentlemen, 

I have question to ask please. Boat gallows was installed from the beginning IS IT correct? And lifeboats were positioned ať the Captian Cabin overhang where i have now  rail...hmm hmm .. I think i Will install only gallow and put Boat on big forward Cabin as long as i dont want to cover Cabin details....or only one. Will see. Do we have pic how davits were installed? From inside of Boat?  I would like to make those AS Well. Thanks much indeed , Vlad 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Thanks for comment and  fine images Rich, i see those cylinder are a bit different but im glad i depicted overall shape and function. I dont have tools working skills and capacity to go with tremendous details at his scale to make it aby different i Guess. I need to have run doing IT and i had fun thats good enough fór me.

 

 

Little from yards closure mechanism roupded from one piece. ..I try to keep rounded and Elegant. No hilarious details fór me AS leathered inside etc...i like IT this way enough...:) Simple opening Works like a charm. 

3 done 7 more to go.... Exhausting

 

 

Vladimir, that's really nice work on those yardarm corrals. They look very realistic.

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

@ClipperFan

@rwiederrich

 

Gentlemen, 

I have question to ask please. Boat gallows was installed from the beginning IS IT correct? And lifeboats were positioned ať the Captian Cabin overhang where i have now  rail...hmm hmm .. I think i Will install only gallow and put Boat on big forward Cabin as long as i dont want to cover Cabin details....or only one. Will see. Do we have pic how davits were installed? From inside of Boat?  I would like to make those AS Well. Thanks much indeed , Vlad 

 

Vladimir, this daguerrotype of the McKay Clipper "Champion of the Seas" clearly shows that Lifeboat Davits mount on the outside of the Hull just in front of the Mizzen Shrouds and behind the Main Shrouds. This photo pretty much verifies what Rob said about the placement of these Boat Davits being in the same location Port and Starboard on "GLORY of the SEAS."

[rwiederrich]

Only problem with this image is it’s not representative of Glory. 
 

The forward Davit on Glory is just aft of the last main mast backstay…….and the aft davit is forward of the leading Taft rail stanchion and iron rail head.    Many images show or suggest this.  
 

Rob

 

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Only problem with this image is it’s not representative of Glory. 
 

The forward Davit on Glory is just aft of the last main mast backstay…….and the aft davit is forward of the leading Taft rail stanchion and iron rail head.    Many images show or suggest this.  
 

Rob

 

Rob, I was attempting to show Vlad that mounting points for the Boat Davits were on the outside of the Hull, since he gave me the impression that he wasn't sure exactly where those Davits mount. In no way did I indicate the exact locations, only a general position. I chose Champion since the Boat Davits are so clearly visible.

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I was attempting to show Vlad that mounting points for the Boat Davits were on the outside of the Hull, since he gave me the impression that he wasn't sure exactly where those Davits mount. In no way did I indicate the exact locations, only a general position. I chose Champion since the Boat Davits are so clearly visible.

I gathered that after I posted, but without further analysis from you, I made the correction.    Sorry , if I was unclear.  
 

great pic by the way. 
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

9 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Thanks Rich, Rob

 

very helpful. to show my uneducation I assume those davits were stored somewhere and mounted ( or stuck in the collars etc) when needed ? or it would not be possible and those were in place all the time? that would ruin aesthetic of the boat as i never seen such on other photos of boats....

as photo goes, i love it not only for davits & mckays vessel but for different reason - typical anerican western wagon or cart with horses next to it.  what a coincidence - it is my next dream to model as model shipways has one beautiful :). watching at these early very rare photos - at the dawn of photography gives me shiver as it is not paint but photographed reality - so we can see it real - not imagined - it is quite clear that we are people trapped in time wrap and our misfortune is fact that we are destined not to live there but from love of it to recreate past . I bet if someone constructed time machine, there will be plenty of folks, drinking beer and talking next to wharfed glory of the seas and i would love to stand next to her with jaw dropped so low staring at her figurehead unable to speak and Rich and Rob smiling  at me   albeit being some 30 years  younger fella. 

[rwiederrich]

15 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

One other note concerning this image of Champion of the Seas.  She was built in 1854 an extreme clipper larger then Glory at 2447 tons. But.... Why on earth would she be sporting only mains, topsails and royals?  Was this sail configuration part of McKay's scheme to increase her speed.(she was fast...20 knots) ..what methodology was he following....or theorizing?

 

Rob

Edited February 9, 2022 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Thanks Rich, Rob

 

very helpful. to show my uneducation I assume those davits were stored somewhere and mounted ( or stuck in the collars etc) when needed ? or it would not be possible and those were in place all the time? that would ruin aesthetic of the boat as i never seen such on other photos of boats....

as photo goes, i love it not only for davits & mckays vessel but for different reason - typical anerican western wagon or cart with horses next to it.  what a coincidence - it is my next dream to model as model shipways has one beautiful :). watching at these early very rare photos - at the dawn of photography gives me shiver as it is not paint but photographed reality - so we can see it real - not imagined - it is quite clear that we are people trapped in time wrap and our misfortune is fact that we are destined not to live there but from love of it to recreate past . I bet if someone constructed time machine, there will be plenty of folks, drinking beer and talking next to wharfed glory of the seas and i would love to stand next to her with jaw dropped so low staring at her figurehead unable to speak and Rich and Rob smiling  at me   albeit being some 30 years  younger fella. 

Vladimir, when you consider exactly what Lifeboat Davits are there for, it wouldn't make sense to dismantle them while at sea. It's one thing to mount boats on roofs but can you just imagine the utter chaos trying to desperately remount and re-rig your Boat Davits as the ship founders around you? However it also makes total sense that they need to be in a sensible position where they don't interfere with the operation of the ship. 

Rob pointed out to me the exact placement of the Davits on the outside of Glory's hull but I'm still unsure as to that exact placement so I would ask him for precise placement. 

While I agree it would be awesome to have been able to see a McKay Clipper in real life, I suspect it would be a huge shock to actually experience the demands of being a member of the crew on any American American Clipper Ship. The men as well as their Ships were all driven hard, "twenty four-seven." There's a reason that for a decade at least, American Clipper Ships dominated the Nautical World for record shattering journeys. But I too share a romantic affinity for these magnificent, impressive vessels. What I didn't fully comprehend until we did Glory's reconstruction, is how truly massive McKay's Clippers truly were. Even his first "Staghound" was the largest ship in the world when launched.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

19 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, when you consider exactly what Lifeboat Davits are there for, it wouldn't make sense to dismantle them while at sea. It's one thing to mount boats on roofs but can you just imagine the utter chaos trying to desperately remount and re-rig your Boat Davits as the ship founders around you? However it also makes total sense that they need to be in a sensible position where they don't interfere with the operation of the ship. 

Rob pointed out to me the exact placement of the Davits on the outside of Glory's hull but I'm still unsure as to that exact placement so I would ask him for precise placement. 

While I agree it would be awesome to have been able to see a McKay Clipper in real life, I suspect it would be a huge shock to actually experience the demands of being a member of the crew on any American American Clipper Ship. The men as well as their Ships were all driven hard, "twenty four-seven." There's a reason that for a decade at least, American Clipper Ships dominated the Nautical World for record shattering journeys. But I too share a romantic affinity for these magnificent, impressive vessels. What I didn't fully comprehend until we did Glory's reconstruction, is how truly massive McKay's Clippers truly were. Even his first "Staghound" was the largest ship in the world when launched.

Thanks for clarifying Rich. Totally makes sense. yes they were behemoths. Im just scratching modeling surface but i totally understand now that seing one leaving port must have been a occasion to go for...i bet for us "romantics" of an era Im left sithout any emotion to see modern mammoth comnerce vessels harboring ...maybe titanic being the last to make me wow...,:) 

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

One other note concerning this image of Champion of the Seas.  She was built in 1854 an extreme clipper larger then Glory at 2447 tons. But.... Why on earth would she be sporting only mains, topsails and royals?  Was this sail configuration part of McKay's scheme to increase her speed.(she was fast...20 knots) ..what methodology was he following....or theorizing?

 

Rob

Rob, Donald McKay was constantly experimenting with both Hull shapes and sailing rigs. Apparently both "James Baines" and "Champion of the Seas" like his first "Sovereign of the Seas" as well as "Lightning" all had Royals on Fore & Mizzen with only the Main sporting a Skysail. These ships were all launched before Howe's innovative split Topsail rig was introduced. 

However it appears McKay "went wide" instead. The Main Yardarm on Champion stretched 95' while her counterpart on the James was a staggering 100'! Topsails on both vessels were similarly immense. 

[ClipperFan]

55 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Thanks for clarifying Rich. Totally makes sense. yes they were behemoths. Im just scratching modeling surface but i totally understand now that seing one leaving port must have been a occasion to go for...i bet for us "romantics" of an era Im left sithout any emotion to see modern mammoth comnerce vessels harboring ...maybe titanic being the last to make me wow...,:) 

Vladimir, A few years ago, my family was treated to a few cruises on Royal Caribbean vessels. Twice we embarked on "Majesty of the Seas" and once on "Liberty of the Seas." Ironically Majesty was a twin to the appropriately name twin sister Ship "Sovereign of the Seas" which was the largest Cruise Ship in the World at the time of her launch, which was way back in 1987.

What I particularly enjoyed about both vessels was the romantic feeling derived from a sense of being on an elaborate movie stage setting. Everything was magnificent multi level views and especially on Majesty there were enormous but tasteful amounts of highly polished brass and gold metals. She was definitely a Ship of the 80s too.

I agree about modern shipping vessels, they're just enormous but nothing beautiful to look at.

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Apparently both "James Baines" and "Champion of the Seas" like his first "Sovereign of the Seas" as well as "Lightning" all had Royals on Fore & Mizzen with only the Main sporting a Skysail. These ships were all launched before Howe's innovative split Topsail rig was introduced. 

When originally rigged these ships did not sport the stationary lower topsail(Typical of the Howes design), but were later converted.

 

The Great Republic was built before all of of these other examples and actually, McKay originally built her with Forbes Double topsails....the Originator of the double topsail.. Howes didn't invent the double topsail...he merely modified it and made it more practical.  McKay recognized the benefits of the rig and first used it on GR.  Prior to that most clippers used single topsails that were large single sails....the topgallent was just as large and hence was the Royal.

 

I gathered that the Champion as originally designed, was of the sail plan depicted in the photograph, but was later re-rigged with Howes double topsails

 

Since Lightning and Champion were build a year later then GR....I wondered why they were not *Originally* built with Howes rigged double topsails.  It's just curious to me.

 

In short(Or long, dependent how interested you are), Champion in this photograph, was built over a year after GR and she only carried a main, a single topsail, and a Royal.  she didn't even carry a topgallant, which was typical of this period clipper.   Great Republic, a year earlier(as originally designed), carried on her main mast.....a Mainsail...upper and lower topsails...a single topgallant....and a Royal.  When rebuilt a year later(as Howes rigged) she sported her mainsail...double topsails....topgallant....Royal and skysail.

 

Champion in this image only carried 3 sails per mast....strange...😏.   Must been taken earlier then when she posted her record 24 hour log of 20 knots per hour.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

When originally rigged these ships did not sport the stationary lower topsail(Typical of the Howes design), but were later converted.

 

The Great Republic was built before all of of these other examples and actually, McKay originally built her with Forbes Double topsails....the Originator of the double topsail.. Howes didn't invent the double topsail...he merely modified it and made it more practical.  McKay recognized the benefits of the rig and first used it on GR.  Prior to that most clippers used single topsails that were large single sails....the topgallent was just as large and hence was the Royal.

 

I gathered that the Champion as originally designed, was of the sail plan depicted in the photograph, but was later re-rigged with Howes double topsails

 

Since Lightning and Champion were build a year later then GR....I wondered why they were not *Originally* built with Howes rigged double topsails.  It's just curious to me.

 

In short(Or long, dependent how interested you are), Champion in this photograph, was built over a year after GR and she only carried a main, a single topsail, and a Royal.  she didn't even carry a topgallant, which was typical of this period clipper.   Great Republic, a year earlier(as originally designed), carried on her main mast.....a Mainsail...upper and lower topsails...a single topgallant....and a Royal.  When rebuilt a year later(as Howes rigged) she sported her mainsail...double topsails....topgallant....Royal and skysail.

 

Champion in this image only carried 3 sails per mast....strange...😏.   Must been taken earlier then when she posted her record 24 hour log of 20 knots per hour.

 

Rob

Rob, according to her description in Boston Daily Atlas Champion as originally designed by McKay carried four sails per mast. It's most likely the daguerrotype was taken before the royal mast could be mounted. Still, four yardarms is a throwback to the old Ships of the Line for sure, as his earlier cargo Extreme Clippers all had five.

Perhaps it's due to their intentional Passenger Ship designation that until "Donald McKay" all three of the Black Ball vessels built for the James Baines line had similar rigs, with exception that Champion was the sole ship without at least a Main Skysail.

A big advantage of Howe's modification of Forbes design, it that it did away with the need to stitch upper and lower topsails together. Howe's rig also required less men to trim a vessel's sails. Looking at it that way, it may be McKay's way of lowering the actual number of sailors necessary to serve on board.

Either way, all contemporary paintings of these magnificent Clippers depict them with sky sails mounted on all masts. So sometime in their service, they must have been re-signed to include them. As a connoisseur of Clipper Ships, I prefer them to have a full suit of five sails on each mast, four for some reason just looks.... awkward.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Im enlightened by your knowledge folks. Always Great deal of reading for me. I Will tease you now, but please dont make aby assumptions out of this pic. There IS nothing fastened Twisted correctly etc..not straightened... i was just trying fit and lusted for what impact would IT make on me...it was everything moved down in 5 minutes. Which IS advantage of working with working collars etc. ..Boat itself dissapeared under that trees of rigid timbers. Quite different look than only body of ship..:) took me 1 Month to build IT Up ...Spencer and spanker left...top mizzen royal  IS not attached. so far most enduring work. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
Add

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Im enlightened by your knowledge folks. Always Great deal of reading for me. I Will tease you now, but please dont make aby assumptions out of this pic. There IS nothing fastened Twisted correctly etc..not straightened... i was just trying fit and lusted for what impact would IT make on me...it was everything moved down in 5 minutes. Which IS advantage of working with working collars etc. ..Boat itself dissapeared under that trees of rigid timbers. Quite different look than only body of ship..:) took me 1 Month to build IT Up ...Spencer and spanker left...top mizzen royal  IS not attached. so far most enduring work. 

Vladimir, you work quickly! The last I knew you had just a few yards done. I see too that the Mainmast now towers over the others. If you seriously want to "tease" how about a nice broadside. However with the size of your model, you may have to take those pictures clear across the room!

[rwiederrich]

Man this boys passin me up like there’s no Sundays.   
 

These days I barely get in an hour here and there in the boat shop.

 

Vlad is doing great indeed.  
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

7 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Man this boys passin me up like there’s no Sundays.   
 

These days I barely get in an hour here and there in the boat shop.

 

Vlad is doing great indeed.  
 

Rob

:)) Guys you act like you dont know me by now :)) I told when I work I work, and nothings gonna stop my sleeples nights. its probable that i will stop again at some point - which i will before rigging - as i want to use up february...from march ...spring here and i wont get to her till next autmun:) and noone would make me continue for another half year  so better like this. besides, there is one ugly thing with yards - repetition. you have 17 times theme on same song again and again and again. So i put it this way- lets go so it can be over. at this moment i stopped doing eyelets for yard stays - and i ordered ones that are made so i can speed up. but dont worry, I have already headache how to proceed with footropes....to what hardcore extend to soow me rapidly down :)) ....:( and from there , it will take at elast  whole year so next autumn to assemble ropes and blocks and to rig her...so i better speed now this sort of repetitive work while i can :)) its been  alreaedy reaching 2nd year in a making now , and I want to see her finished Alive!  :)) 

@Teaser ....I know its very hard to please Rich at this point by anything mediocre or sloppy now as he is on a watch not let any wrong vague or simply bad measurement slip thru to ruin her fame :)))))) and i applaud. thats how it should be  ..)

i will be at total ease when making capstans :)) where noone guesses or knows what it was. :))) 

 

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

:)) Guys you act like you dont know me by now :))

Oh...we know you Vlad...you pump out  good work....it is just astonishing that you do it so well....AND....quickly.  but since you admitted you don't sleep much....I can see now where you get your time to be so fruitful.

 

Rob