Glory of the Seas 1869 by Vladimir_Wairoa - FINISHED - 1:72 - medium clipper

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

26 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, Rob I took another look at this image of Glory's main deck, with specific emphasis on her bilge pump flywheels. At first, I thought it wasn't possible to determine whether her iron spokes were straight, like the 1886 Ship "Balclutha" or "S" curved, as we discussed earlier.

Sure enough, when I enlarged the image it does clearly show that Glory's bilge pump flywheels did indeed have the "S" curved iron spokes and not straight ones. They're also narrower than the mainmast fife rails, since the wheels appear to align neatly behind them. Viewed from above, the fife rails look like they're a square and the bilge pump mounting would look smaller and rectangular. 

Indeed Rich, i knew that. I take it against myself.i took easier route in order rather to produce fine dircle. in 1:24 cutty sark I soldered nice S ones. far bigger though  not to worry as i know myself i will probably  be returing to it :))) 

[rwiederrich]

22 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

They're also narrower than the mainmast fife rails, since the wheels appear to align neatly behind them. Viewed from above, the fife rails look like they're a square and the bilge pump mounting would look smaller and rectangular. 

All due respect, Rich...I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

In every image the flywheels are mounted just outside of the fife rail proper...on both port and starboard sides and the flywheel diameter is nearly flush with the fife rail head.

 

This really bad image shows this.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:19 AM, rwiederrich said:

All due respect, Rich...I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.

In every image the flywheels are mounted just outside of the fife rail proper...on both port and starboard sides and the flywheel diameter is nearly flush with the fife rail head.

 

This really bad image shows this.

 

Rob

Rob, I know I'm getting a bit of a deserved "rep" about being a pain in the *** for detailed accuracy. Believe me, it's not my intention to make your lives difficult as modelers. I'm just trying to maintain fealty to historic accuracy in order to be consistent to our initial stated goal of creating the most accurate version of Glory in every detail possible. Hopefully this will continue to unveil Glory's uniqueness as a McKay Clipper.

Case in point this blurry image looks like it proves what I said about the main bilge pumps having a narrower mounting rail then the main fire rail. Otherwise how would the flywheels line up with the fife rails and also be mounted outside their own rails?

Besides which, just from a "workflow" viewpoint, as long as the shorter crankshaft don't interfere with pump efficiency, wouldn't it make sense to inset the pump rails, so that the flywheels don't impede on working area around them?

Edited February 16, 2022 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I know I'm getting a bit of a deserved "rep" about being a pain in the *** for detailed accuracy. Believe me, it's not my intention to make your lives difficult as modelers. I'm just trying to maintain fealty to historic accuracy in order to be consistent to our initial stated goal of creating the most accurate version of Glory in every detail possible. Hopefully this will continue to unveil Glory's uniqueness as a McKay Clipper.

Case in point this blurry image looks like it proves what I said about the main bilge pumps having a narrower mounting rail then the main fire rail. Otherwise how would the flywheels line up with the fife rails and also be mounted outside their own rails?

Besides which, just from a "workflow" viewpoint, as long as the shorter crankshaft don't interfere with pump efficiency, wouldn't it make sense to inset the pump rails, so that the flywheels don't impede on working area around them?

In this image the pillow block for the pump shaft is sitting right on top of the fife rail proper.

Notice the row of pins with rope around them just forward of the pump flywheel.  This is the same rail the flywheel pillow block is bolted to.

Also the lower rail is also just inside the flywheel and it is directly beneath the top fife rail the pins are located on..

 

I'm not seeing the structure you suggest the pump crank shaft is mounted upon.  All these images I have provided definitely show the flywheel on the outside of the fife rail...regardless of the internal suspected structure.

The image of the green pump shown earlier clearly demonstrates the pumps pillow blocks are bolted to the fife rail proper....despite the flywheel location.

 

I fully appreciate your tenaciousness concerning accuracy(It has been our constant companion).....but... I think this issue is clearly in  favor of my position.

With that said, I don't think it is a deal killer....making our efforts to accurately construct the best model of Glory we can any less accurate.

Since...it is her hull and its dimensions that really was the crux of our efforts to begin with.

 

Style and types of deck furnishings and furniture...without absolute clear and accurate descriptions specific to Glory, can afford to diverge with each builders preferences.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

In this image the pillow block for the pump shaft is sitting right on top of the fife rail proper.

Notice the row of pins with rope around them just forward of the pump flywheel.  This is the same rail the flywheel pillow block is bolted to.

Also the lower rail is also just inside the flywheel and it is directly beneath the top fife rail the pins are located on..

 

I'm not seeing the structure you suggest the pump crank shaft is mounted upon.  All these images I have provided definitely show the flywheel on the outside of the fife rail...regardless of the internal suspected structure.

The image of the green pump shown earlier clearly demonstrates the pumps pillow blocks are bolted to the fife rail proper....despite the flywheel location.

 

I fully appreciate your tenaciousness concerning accuracy(It has been our constant companion).....but... I think this issue is clearly in  favor of my position.

With that said, I don't think it is a deal killer....making our efforts to accurately construct the best model of Glory we can any less accurate.

Since...it is her hull and its dimensions that really was the crux of our efforts to begin with.

 

Style and types of deck furnishings and furniture...without absolute clear and accurate descriptions specific to Glory, can afford to diverge with each builders preferences.

 

Rob

Rob, I am not suggesting either you or Vlad make any changes to structures you've already painstakingly constructed. Just as an Academic conversation, I continue my observations of these confusing bilge wheels. First I want to stipulate that both flywheels are indeed mounted outside the pinrail they're located on. However, this even more sharp image clearly shows that the Port flywheel is indeed reset behind the mainmast fife rail. If you look at the rear section of the top Port rail, the front part of the Port wheel disappears behind it. Now follow the top horizontal bar to which this same flywheel mounts and appears to have line looped around a couple belaying pins and it clearly looks like it would be much closer to the inner section of the mainmast. Again, if you follow this pattern, you can easily see the "zig-zag" pattern you'd expect to see if the main bilge pumps were mounted outside of a more narrow rail. If anything, it's a fascinating conversation.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Unusual update. Parcel arrived

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

I said i Will Still  slowly upgrade some aspects that was done hastily when having tíme. 

Started to work  on New skylights ...top IS not not finished yet. 

 

 

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, nice work on the dual skylights. I'm also impressed with how substantial your lower Mizzenmast is. It's easy to miss how big these lower spars were when the entire height of these lofty masts are done. They must have been an imposing sight to behold in person.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:24 PM, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, nice work on the dual skylights. I'm also impressed with how substantial your lower Mizzenmast is. It's easy to miss how big these lower spars were when the entire height of these lofty masts are done. They must have been an imposing sight to behold in person.

Thank you Rich apology i dont check my list regularly. There IS pauze now but just so you know, im Still thinking of  figurehead to me Made somwhow and to get nameboard and hoods laser cut. And update. This IS proper height of her in scale after rescaling. First fine.  So there Will probably be second attempt somwhow. Not sure how . 

[rwiederrich]

23 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

somwhow and to get nameboard and hoods laser cut.

Why do that?  You will remove a hand made element of your build.

 

My hoods scroll work is far from perfect...but it is hand made and hand painted.  Its an imperfect aspect of my build, that makes my build more tangible and authentic.  IMHV.

 

However, do what you think  best.

 

Rob

Edited March 9, 2022 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir it may surprise you to know that I agree with Rob 100%. There is an immediacy and rustic charm to the lovely work you've already done. There is such a thing as trying too hard. Sometimes it's better to step back and accept the beautiful results you've already created.

As for Glory's figurehead, I encourage you to set your doubts aside and just go for it. She can either be constructed from a series of smaller carved wooden components, like her arms, for instance or using thin wire armature, built up out of clay or sculpey. Good luck!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Thanks for input gentlemen. youre probably right. At some moments I miss or regret not having those elements authentically 3D outstepping of surface. but on the other side as you say its high tech against hand paint. 

I wont change it and will focus on figurehead to make it instead. slowly. 

Thanks much 

V. 

[rwiederrich]

5 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

At some moments I miss or regret not having those elements authentically 3D outstepping of surface. but on the other side as you say its high tech against hand paint. 

Vlad....if your build was mostly a product of 3D printed parts...I would agree with your opinion to remake them.  But in this particular instance, the hand craftedness is harmoniously and attractively incorporated within the hand craftedness of the entire build.  Plus as the model is passed from family or friend on down the line...it will retain its earthyness and attractiveness as a hand made model.

 

Go get-em.

 

Rob

Edited March 10, 2022 by rwiederrich

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

18 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Vlad....if your build was mostly a product of 3D printed parts...I would agree with your opinion to remake them.  But in this particular instance, the hand craftedness is harmoniously and attractively incorporated within the hand craftedness of the entire build.  Plus as the model is passed from family or friend on down the line...it will retain its earthyness and attractiveness as a hand made model.

 

Go get-em.

 

Rob

I got the point Rob. Fully agreed thanks. its just reason i paintakingly digitally recreated entire ornamentals for no use though  V . 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

 

https://www.maritimawoodcarving.co.uk/maritima-commissions/the-cutty-sark/

Vladimir I thought you might appreciate seeing the creation process start to finish of a real figurehead. Attached is a link to the woodcutter's replacement of Scottish "Cutty Sark" Witch 'Nannie'. The earliest image shows a paper outline laying on a block of wood. Then the wood is carefully shaped by the carver. In the background you can see a smaller scale version of the completed sculpture. Since you're already working on a 1&1/4" size to start, there's no need to start any smaller 😉 Regardless, I hope this article serves as inspiration for your effort. Another helpful hint, all human bodies are 7 heads tall. It helps to know this in order to keep your Proportions accurate. A favorite resource for me is Michelangelo's "Illustrated Man." the famous image of a man inside a circle. 

While Glory's figurehead 'Athene' is topless, a good portion of her is wrapped in a Grecian toga. Her left arm barely covers her left breast and her left hand grasps her toga just below a large necklace around her neck. The toga flows outward in a tight triangular flowing shape. Her right arm reaches back to grasp the other end of her toga. The right thumb faces outward while the upper part of the hand is mostly hidden by fabric. Speaking of which, the fabric forms an open loop behind 'Athene' so that you can see right through both sides. On both sides of the figure, her torso is open with the toga flowing down in graceful arcs almost below her hips. Her pose is left foot forward, toes down, heel slightly elevated while her right foot is back practically verticle. The model was very graceful and looks as if she's ready to step right off the pedestal she's resting on. Most of her legs are hidden by her dress. I realize very few of these details can be realized on a figure just barely over an inch tall but I thought you might appreciate knowing regardless.

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir, these images are from "Before the Mast in the Clippers" I shared the painting of Clipper 'Surprise' just because it's a beautiful piece. The other two images show complete rigging fore and aft of topsail and course (main lower sail). I thought you might be able to use them for your plans.

Edited March 13, 2022 by ClipperFan
revised description

[gak1965]

On 2/10/2022 at 12:42 PM, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

after finishing davits, and deck working stuff First i will next  focus on footropes , have to think what i want to achieve what i am capable of and im not sure what i can do. i read that vertical strings are better made of wire as they keep it in place and not twist than rope...decisions decisions. 

 

I've used thin, black wire from BlueJacket for the vertical footrope components. I found it was impossible to make thread hang right. Not that this is the consideration, but it is way easier to make the loop with wire than with any kind of thread.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

5 minutes ago, gak1965 said:

I've used thin, black wire from BlueJacket for the vertical footrope components. I found it was impossible to make thread hang right. Not that this is the consideration, but it is way easier to make the loop with wire than with any kind of thread.

Thanks you for advice i Will také IT to consideration .:) V.  

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

On 3/11/2022 at 4:01 PM, ClipperFan said:

 

https://www.maritimawoodcarving.co.uk/maritima-commissions/the-cutty-sark/

Vladimir I thought you might appreciate seeing the creation process start to finish of a real figurehead. Attached is a link to the woodcutter's replacement of Scottish "Cutty Sark" Witch 'Nannie'. The earliest image shows a paper outline laying on a block of wood. Then the wood is carefully shaped by the carver. In the background you can see a smaller scale version of the completed sculpture. Since you're already working on a 1&1/4" size to start, there's no need to start any smaller 😉 Regardless, I hope this article serves as inspiration for your effort. Another helpful hint, all human bodies are 7 heads tall. It helps to know this in order to keep your Proportions accurate. A favorite resource for me is Michelangelo's "Illustrated Man." the famous image of a man inside a circle. 

While Glory's figurehead 'Athene' is topless, a good portion of her is wrapped in a Grecian toga. Her left arm barely covers her left breast and her left hand grasps her toga just below a large necklace around her neck. The toga flows outward in a tight triangular flowing shape. Her right arm reaches back to grasp the other end of her toga. The right thumb faces outward while the upper part of the hand is mostly hidden by fabric. Speaking of which, the fabric forms an open loop behind 'Athene' so that you can see right through both sides. On both sides of the figure, her torso is open with the toga flowing down in graceful arcs almost below her hips. Her pose is left foot forward, toes down, heel slightly elevated while her right foot is back practically verticle. The model was very graceful and looks as if she's ready to step right off the pedestal she's resting on. Most of her legs are hidden by her dress. I realize very few of these details can be realized on a figure just barely over an inch tall but I thought you might appreciate knowing regardless.

Thank you Rich  ! 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

19 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, these images are from "Before the Mast in the Clippers" I shared the painting of Clipper 'Surprise' just because it's a beautiful piece. The other two images show complete rigging fore and aft of topsail and course (main lower sail). I thought you might be able to use them for your plans.

Thanks Rich, lovely paint indeed. 

AS i started to study rig properly i Now understand "the mess" meaning a aj additional pack of ropes in case one  considers sails  comparing to without sails . Yes they are there but All the buntlines and so on yes they have to fit comfortably indeed question sa s whether i want them. But i  leaning to sails probably similarly as in the paint. First i need to learn making those. Silkspan? Not sure yet. You know I am not doing on glory ATM, probably later in spring or summer..but when i start i Will let everyone know. I Will need to assemble ropes stuff etc...Will be long build. I see it fór autumn and that Will be intense work and i hope lovely rigging. Fingers  crossed. Meanwhile i Will experiment with figurehead:) i Still think how to frame that fine sketch from you. I Guess when i start rigging Rob Will  build Another clipper or two :D. V.

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[rwiederrich]

17 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

I Guess when i start rigging Rob Will  build Another clipper or two :D. V.

You humble me Vlad.  If I was only that fast.  Fortunately for me, I have an advantage over you in that, I have been rigging clipper ships for over 48 years and their rig is no surprise to me.  You are doing it right...study, study, study.  Familiarize yourself with the terms and the functions of each line and you will have good success, and your model will be an *accurate* scale model.  When I get criticism from experts on any possible error I may have made, I can confidently claim the so called error was one of Artistic expression based upon a number of unsubstantiated possibilities,  NOT on factual atypical practice I failed to replicate.

 

Keep educating yourself and you will do fine.  you have thus far.

 

Rob.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

2 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

You humble me Vlad.  If I was only that fast.  Fortunately for me, I have an advantage over you in that, I have been rigging clipper ships for over 48 years and their rig is no surprise to me.  You are doing it right...study, study, study.  Familiarize yourself with the terms and the functions of each line and you will have good success, and your model will be an *accurate* scale model.  When I get criticism from experts on any possible error I may have made, I can confidently claim the so called error was one of Artistic expression based upon a number of unsubstantiated possibilities,  NOT on factual atypical practice I failed to replicate.

 

Keep educating yourself and you will do fine.  you have thus far.

 

Rob.

Wow Rob, im in awe.  glory Will ( hopefully) be my first complete  rig whatsoever. Studying 

 your progress ( despite of Few differences of later years changes are Great source to me. Plaese do feel free to comment whatever you Will see strange:) v. 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[rwiederrich]

22 hours ago, gak1965 said:

I've used thin, black wire from BlueJacket for the vertical footrope components. I found it was impossible to make thread hang right. Not that this is the consideration, but it is way easier to make the loop with wire than with any kind of thread.

I always install my foot ropes first...then install the stirrups.   Never have a problem with string curling. since I hydrate the string forming it straight.

 

Bammmnnnn!

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Todays rain pushed me to unwrap glory, and what a lovely memories of making her. I was surprised by amount of minute works i was able to do last winter preparing rigging. Almost backed Up if able to continue again. But after i took a knife ..

I Jumper into remaking fcastle, and I did quite a preparation structural work...

 

Flooring and catheads holes still  missing but hell...only now i am  completely satisfied with her appearance AS whole and satisfied with her hull finally ! 

 

AS IT changed her look quite drastically and prssively so. I was complaining and pointing out the fcastle IS ridiculously low if followed her main line, event before beautiful photo of fcastle appeared.

Higher ceiling of it gave All bow Area 

substantial bigger lovely appearance and visibility, ...and place below fór work....

 

I cant wait to put floor and lovely cornering pieces with rounded point in her. 

 

Here are few photos ..lokks like im in track to continue

 

 

Thanks you fór comments...

V. 

 

 

 

 

Castle Before - unreally low for men to wall in...

Edited September 14, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[rwiederrich]

Fantastic work Vlad.  How exciting that you’re back at it and remodeling too boot.  
 

Wonderful.  
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Fantastic work Vlad.  How exciting that you’re back at it and remodeling too boot.  
 

Wonderful.  
 

Rob

Thanks much Rob.  

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Good evening in Europe day in u.s.

 

After long break In finally moving somewhere....

 

Mr. McKay was to check the progress AS fcastle IS being rebuilt. New flooring installed and beautiful rounded Arrow to the tip. I know i know.tapering and so on...majú things omitted in this scale. Understandably i assume. Attention was paid to play planks tightly and secure catheads. 

plenty of work to do AS continues ...

APolohy to purists fór any inacuracy. juh We still dont know what fcastle looked like 🤪. 

Ať least McKay IS nie pretty  satisfied with Bright of fcastle.

good day everyone.

any comment or critical point appreciqted AS always. 

 

next - ornamentation of Down front sides of fcastle  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Close Up showing complexity of lines of timbers and new height and connection of fcastle ...

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[rwiederrich]

Fantastic work Vlad.   Great to see you back at it……moving forward.  Great remodel of the forecastle.  
 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Very nice work on your model Vlad, good to see you back.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

5 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Very nice work on your model Vlad, good to see you back.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Thanks folks. I am impressed by your metalurgical   work on Victoria Pat, its something to inspire and motivate me to slow down and try to achieve something similar in future. thanks for stopping by:) Vlad