tomganc Posted March 30, 2022 Share #961 Posted March 30, 2022 This is looking great. I'm not far behind with mine I hope Considering this is 1/100 scale I'm well impressed with the level of details. Well done sir 👍 Regards Tom Quote Current Builds: HMS Victory by DeAgostini 1/84 HMS Victory Build We don't stop playing because we grow old... we grow old because we stop playing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share #962 Posted March 30, 2022 Interesting Ian. I am wondering about that. My curiosity is how the crew would reach the opening in the mast top in order to get up there. If ratlines were only in the futtock shrouds above the stave, the crew would have to climb above the stave on a backward diagonal angle and then somehow get over the topmast shroud deadeyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share #963 Posted March 30, 2022 Thank you for your kind words Tom. Hope all is going well in Manchester. Your build is absolutely incredible! I have your log saved on my computer for quick reference similar to Ian’s, Daniel’s, and Kevin’s. The detail in your work’ especially your rigging lines is a thing of beauty. I will just look at our photos and marvel at the quality of your rigging work. I have to be honest when I say I look at something I have done on my model and feel pretty pleased. Then I make the mistake of looking at one like your’s and just shake my head at how much better your’s is! Maybe it is the scale. Maybe it is the DeAgostini kit even though this Heller kit is well regarded. I am not sure. But I keep coming back to the simple answer. The difference in mine and your’s is the craftsman building it. Very well done my friend, Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 30, 2022 Share #964 Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Bill97 said: Interesting Ian. I am wondering about that. My curiosity is how the crew would reach the opening in the mast top in order to get up there. If ratlines were only in the futtock shrouds above the stave, the crew would have to climb above the stave on a backward diagonal angle and then somehow get over the topmast shroud deadeyes. Yes, that's exactly what they did. Don't forget that at sea the ship would be heeled one way or the other; the crew always went up on the windward side where the futtock angle would be nearer vertical. Also a strong wind would press you into the shrouds, not off the ship! I surmise that as they near the top the shrouds become like a close-packed set of tree branches. It would be impossible to stick your feet between them anyway. Also it would be very slow for the men to funnel through the lubber's hole one at a time and then have to step to the rim of the top before continuing to climb. As a side note I have often wondered about the many times Dr. Maturin entered a top through the lubber's hole, in Patrick O'Brien books......without ratlines? Here is an extract from "Tall Ships - How to Climb the Rigging" Up & Over the Futtock Shrouds The first hurdle for most people is the infamous ‘futtock shrouds’ just below the first platform. All the tall ships we work with have a safety wire here for you to clip to, so if you do slip you won’t go far. This does need a bit of arm strength and commitment as the futtock shrouds lean backwards for about 4-6ft to access the platform. The best tip we can give you is (i) do it with a friend or crew member for support the first time as they can give you an idea where your feet are….especially on the way down. (ii) on the way up (and down) hang back with straight arms as it is less tiring on your arms and your body doesn’t get in the way as your feet and knees move up. Also you are more likely to be able to see where you are placing you feet if you lean your body out. Edited March 31, 2022 by Ian_Grant Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share #965 Posted March 30, 2022 Thanks again Ian. You are an encyclopedia of great information 😀 Ian_Grant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted March 30, 2022 Share #966 Posted March 30, 2022 Re’ Dr Maturin, very few as I remember! But I’ll make a note to count when I next re-read 😀. Climbing overhangs on a rock face firmly planted in the ground was bad enough, nothing but nothing would persuade me to do this on a ship swinging in the wind. Quote Kevin https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ktl_model_shop Current projects: HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller / Scratch, kind of active, depending on the alignment of the planets) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ Cutty Sark 1:96 (More scratch than Revell, parked for now) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Soleil Royal 1:100 (Heller..... and probably some bashing. The one I'm not supposed to be working on yet) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36944-le-soleil-royal-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share #967 Posted March 30, 2022 Today I tightened the main mast lower shrouds and got the futtock stave and futtock shrouds on the main mast. I used a brass rod for the stave which matches Daniel’s deadeye irons and little hooks. Since the little hooks are so fragile and delicate I added a touch of CA glue where the hook goes in the loop. Still need to attach the lower end of the shrouds to the stave and do the catherpins. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 30, 2022 Share #968 Posted March 30, 2022 Bill, it's pretty fiddly to add the futtocks and catharpins without distorting the run of the shrouds. Take it slowly and don't commit the knots until you are satisfied. I remember that there is a recommended order to do them in ie futtocks then catharpins, or vice versa. I did the catharpins first for what it's worth. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 30, 2022 Share #969 Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Kevin-the-lubber said: Re’ Dr Maturin, very few as I remember! But I’ll make a note to count when I next re-read 😀. Climbing overhangs on a rock face firmly planted in the ground was bad enough, nothing but nothing would persuade me to do this on a ship swinging in the wind. Kevin I thought you were doing the Cutty Sark climb this summer! Better steel yourself for her futtock shrouds 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 30, 2022 Share #970 Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) Speaking of Dr. Maturin; Bill have you read any of the classic seafaring series? With your rigging knowledge now, much of what is said will have more meaning for you than for the novice reader. Opinions below are mine only. Hornblower series by CS Forrester: the classic and still my favourite. Aubrey/Maturin series by Patrick Obrien: paints a vivid picture of the 18th century world and people, but a little slow at times. Ramage series by Dudley Pope: Very good. Delancey short series by C Northcote Parkinson: I like the writing style but some don't. Wish there were more. Boiltho series by Alexander Kent: read them as a teenager but got tired of them. Alan Lewrie series by Dewey Lambdin: just came across these a few years ago. Lots of action aboard ship and in bedroom. Likeable protagonist. If you try out all of these, you are in for about 80 books (!). Will keep you busy for a while. Edited March 30, 2022 by Ian_Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share #971 Posted March 30, 2022 Ian was in fact just thinking about the process of tying the futtock sand catherpins. I am thinking I will put them all in with lose knots and then carefully start tying them No I have not read any of those books. I will have to check my library. Which would you recommend first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted March 30, 2022 Share #972 Posted March 30, 2022 By the way Bill, you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. As I'm sure you're going to find when you have it finished and on display, you are going to hear a lot of 'wows'. You've made some very good individual taste choices that, in my view, make this a unique and very appealing build. And one more 'by the way': you do realise, don't you, that a little ways down the line we're all going to be asking you the same questions you've been asking Ian, so don't plan any long vacations! Ian - I hadn't thought about that (the CS climb). I'm sure they'll have a hoist... Personally I enjoyed Aubrey/Maturin the most. It's rare that I hang on to books once read but for me, that set are keepers. You're right though, they'll make more sense in places with ship modelling knowledge. Quote Kevin https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ktl_model_shop Current projects: HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller / Scratch, kind of active, depending on the alignment of the planets) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ Cutty Sark 1:96 (More scratch than Revell, parked for now) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Soleil Royal 1:100 (Heller..... and probably some bashing. The one I'm not supposed to be working on yet) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36944-le-soleil-royal-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share #973 Posted March 30, 2022 Oh I am not going anywhere Kevin and welcome any further questions. When I finish my Victory and have it on display I will then crack open my Soleli Royal. If I can get half the help from builders here on MSW with it that I have received on my Victory I will be grateful. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 31, 2022 Share #974 Posted March 31, 2022 5 hours ago, Bill97 said: Ian was in fact just thinking about the process of tying the futtock sand catherpins. I am thinking I will put them all in with lose knots and then carefully start tying them No I have not read any of those books. I will have to check my library. Which would you recommend first? "Mr. Midshipman Hornblower", the first of the series, is a very very good book. Each chapter is a story unto itself, showing Hornblower progressing towards being an outstanding sea officer. Lots of action. And futtock shrouds 😃. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share #975 Posted March 31, 2022 Ian I found that one and Hornblower and the Antropos at my library. Anxious to give them a read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 31, 2022 Share #976 Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) That's great, Bill! I like the Atropos book a lot. There are a couple of books, "Lieutenant Hornblower" and "Hornblower and the Hotspur" (as well as the unfinished "Hornblower and the Crisis" which has a promising start but Mr. Forrester died unfortunately) between these two if you want to read the series sequentially, but they can be read individually. Edited March 31, 2022 by Ian_Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share #977 Posted March 31, 2022 I also requested this 6 DVD set from the library. When I get it I will see if it movies made from the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 31, 2022 Share #978 Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) Yeah, well, that series started off looking great (intro episode, and the episode aboard the Renown) but soon veered off in new plots that IMO are far weaker than the books. And sometimes ridiculous (landing in France episode). The classic movie with Gregory Peck as Hornblower is far better. Edited March 31, 2022 by Ian_Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share #979 Posted March 31, 2022 Well I may not bother watching it then. I was wondering if the books were just made into movies. I guess not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted March 31, 2022 Share #980 Posted March 31, 2022 Geez Bill that's just my opinion. Try them out, some are ok. Peck's Hornblower movie is very enjoyable and covers three of the Forrester books in brief. Sort of. I own a copy. Are you aware of Alec Guinness in "Damn the Defiant"? Another great classic movie. I own a copy. I assume you have seen the recent "Master and Commander" with Russell Crowe? A great movie based on one of O'Brien's books. Again, I own a copy. Keep your eyes peeled for the guy sitting at the head as the ship comes at you out of the screen during a storm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted April 1, 2022 Author Share #981 Posted April 1, 2022 The Yes Ian I have seen Master and Commander several times. I will watch for that next time. I am an avid reader but have not read much in this genre. Only with the building of these ships has my interest really peaked. I really hope to enjoy them. Ian_Grant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted April 2, 2022 Author Share #982 Posted April 2, 2022 Ok guys I know I will need to do this rigging step because I see it on every build I have researched. However I do not know what it is called, when to do it, or where to find reference to how to do it. I have looked through Longridge’s book and can not find it. No doubt Ian you will reply back that it is clearly on page ### in the book and I will kick myself again. What is the big X shaped bundle of rope at the mast top as seen in Tom’s picture below. dafi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafi Posted April 2, 2022 Share #983 Posted April 2, 2022 Wonderful work! XXXDAn Quote To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/ See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/ Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit), USS Constitution 1:96 (Revell) and other useful bits. http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted April 2, 2022 Author Share #984 Posted April 2, 2022 Daniel that picture is Tom’s work, not mine. I was using the picture to ask what that rigging step is? I could only hope to have my rigging look so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted April 2, 2022 Share #985 Posted April 2, 2022 Hello Bill. As you predicted here is the answer. Those are the two separate jeer block lashings which pass through the cleats on the mast. The rope you see seized around the bottom of the lashing is the jeer block strop, from the upper jeer block. See pg 241 and Plan 8. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted April 2, 2022 Author Share #986 Posted April 2, 2022 I knew you could help me Ian. Thanks. Tying futtock shrouds today. Whew! 😳 Ian_Grant and Kevin-the-lubber 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted April 2, 2022 Share #987 Posted April 2, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 8:26 AM, Bill97 said: I also requested this 6 DVD set from the library. When I get it I will see if it movies made from the books. When you get them… watch one and tell us if the picture quality is what you would expect. On you tube it’s a mix of poor to “ok”. ROKU has the whole series on right now and the quality is no better than YouTube. 😕 Ian_Grant 1 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted April 2, 2022 Share #988 Posted April 2, 2022 Bill, your catharpins and futtocks are looking great! Brings back fond(?) memories. Dave_E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted April 2, 2022 Author Share #989 Posted April 2, 2022 A little thread trimming once the touches of white glue dry and I will see how it looks. Dave_E, dafi and Ian_Grant 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twahl Posted April 3, 2022 Share #990 Posted April 3, 2022 This is beautiful work! I've spent many hours studying this thread and I thank you for all the detail you show. I've just got back into modeling after 30+years and have started this model. I'm waiting on Dafi's photo etch to arrive and have assembled the cannons and today painted and weathered the deck. I've got a question I would like your opinion on. I was planning on ordering wood blocks to rig with until I watched RJ Scaleships video on YouTube on how to modify them. I had a friend give me a few wood blocks to try and the quality doesn't seem to be as nice as the Heller blocks, at least once modified. In your opinion would you still recommend wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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