Duchess of Kingston 1778 by desalgu - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Royal Yacht

[Glenn-UK]

Good start. I really enjoyed building the Duchess.

[desalgu]

Thank you Chris and James for advice on nails.  I used nails on the bow bulkheads, but didn't need them after about bulkhead 5.  I pre-drilled thru the plywood and into the bulkhead, so I could push the nails in with pliers.  Without pre-drilling the length of the nail, I couldn't get them into the bulkheads.  Used #77 drill in case anyone is interested.  Perhaps a nail pusher would have made this much easier.

 

To get the nail holes in plywood and bulkheads aligned the way I wanted, I had to hold/clamp/tape the ply in the correct place and then drill thru both ply and bulkhead at the same time.  This was what gave me problems until I realized I needed to glue the ply into the bow stem first.  After that, I was able to work my way around the bow, pre-drilling, gluing, and nailing.  I did one or two bulkheads at a time.  it helped to wrap tape around the 2 bulkheads just aft of the one I was gluing.  This relieved stress on the plywood somewhat, so the nails could hold it against the bulkhead.

 

All this has worked.  Once I got past the bow curvature and twist, the plywood bulwarks laid along the hull pretty nice.  I just used tape on that part to hold it in place as shown in photo, and glued it to all remaining bulkheads at the same time.  The plywood extends past the stern about 1/16", but I'm very happy with the fit.  Progress!

 

[WalrusGuy]

Everything is looking top notch! 

[desalgu]

I got the port bulwarks glued, so started on starboard side.  I'm using same method, gluing the front of the bulwark piece into the slot on the bow stem and letting it dry over night.  It's really nice having this slot to get bulwarks aligned at the bow.  Now I've glued the bulwarks to the first two bulkheads and used the nails to hold it in place.  No trouble with the nails, they are tiny, but much easier to use than ones in previous kits.  

 

I wrapped tape around everything at bulkhead 4 making easier to pre-drill and put in the nails in bulkheads 1 and 2.  I also put a small piece of tape at the stern to keep it from flopping around.  Since I'm just doing 2 bulkheads at a time, I didn't bother to mark bulkhead locations.  I was able to easily drill for the nails by eyeball  (although I did miss one - drill slipped a little).

 

Once I found the trick of first gluing the front of bulwarks in the bow slot and letting it dry, and realizing how the curve and twist in the bulwarks made it fit, it has been pretty smooth sailing.  I think if I was doing this again, I would consider modify the form I made for soaking and shaping the bulwarks to include the angle change or twist.  This would take some work up front, but seems like it would make it easier to glue later on.  

[desalgu]

Finally got the bulwarks plywood pieces done.  I used more of the nails to hold bulwarks when gluing the second side.  The combination of nails and tape wrapped around the bulkheads worked pretty good.  I didn't get them aligned quite as good as I thought, but hope it's good enough.

 

Next step is first layer of planking.  Interesting that manual has you put on first layer before putting the false keel on.  Pictures look like you plank downward all the way to the keel, instead of working downward from wales and upward from keel, meeting in the middle.  It looks like you plank downward until you think you're at the keel, leaving a slot for the false keel.  When I get to that point, I may stick the false keel in place, so I know where to plank to.  Seems like you could glue it in now before planking, but I'll follow the manual.  There may be a good reason for waiting to glue it in.

 

I'm thinking it would be easier to plank with shorter strips.  Instead of going the entire length of the hull, go about halfway, so it takes two planking strips for the entire length.  Seems like the bends would be easier.  Since this is first layer, don't think it matters, and no need to do scale length planks.  I can put the joint at different bulkheads near the middle so they overlap. 

 

I was under impression lime wood and what in the US we call basswood were the same.  But the lime wood for first layer of planking sure seems like higher quality wood than the basswood I've used before.  The grain looks tighter and it feels a little harder than basswood.  Basswood is very soft and splits along the grain real easily.  Upon first inspection, the lime wood looks and feels like it won't have these problems, or at least they'll be minimized.  

 

[James H]

16 minutes ago, desalgu said:

Next step is first layer of planking.  Interesting that manual has you put on first layer before putting the false keel on.  Pictures look like you plank downward all the way to the keel, instead of working downward from wales and upward from keel, meeting in the middle.  It looks like you plank downward until you think you're at the keel, leaving a slot for the false keel.  When I get to that point, I may stick the false keel in place, so I know where to plank to.  Seems like you could glue it in now before planking, but I'll follow the manual.  There may be a good reason for waiting to glue it in.

 

You can add a plank that runs along the bottom edge to where the keel fits, if you wish. I did it this way so you aren't planking all that deadwood area in lime, only to then sand pretty much all of it away in that area. You'll see that the lime planks sweep upwards away from the deadwood area at the lowest point.

 

Your last plank at the keel area will cover the slots in the MDF, so there is a 'socket' for the pear keel to later fit into. A reason for not fitting the pear keel at this point is that it makes it easier for the modeller to shape the hull without obstruction or the likelihood of damage being caused to it.

[desalgu]

Thanks James H!  Waiting to put keel piece in to avoid damage makes sense.  I didn't quite understand what you meant by "deadwood area" though.  I'm still learning terminology everyone uses on model ships.

 

When I started fitting first plank, I realized, like Glenn Shelton, that I should add a filler block right at the stern, so there would be something to glue to.  So I used some scrap MDF, and glued in a small piece, and shaped it.

 

[desalgu]

Then I put on first plank just below bulwarks.  No particular problem other than getting used to using nails to hold it in place.  I glued sections at a time, most sections covering 3-4 bulkheads.  I used Titebond glue for this layer, the same I've used for everything else.

 

I used a battery-powered drill that rotates very slowly and a #78 drill to predrill holes for nails.  It's easy to drill starting holes thru the plank and into the bulkheads.  I start the nail holding it in pliers, and then use flat side of pliers to push it in.  It works pretty good.  Only bent a few nails.

 

[desalgu]

I've added 3 more planks as of today.  This will take some time, so I'll only occasionally post pictures unless I run into trouble.  

[WalrusGuy]

On 7/8/2021 at 9:51 PM, desalgu said:

deadwood area

Correct me if I am wrong but this is the section where there is no cavity in the ship (like at the stern).

 

 

The planking is looking great btw! Can't wait to see the entire hull covered up 😁

 

[desalgu]

That makes sense to me, and thanks!!

[desalgu]

I'm going real slow with planking.  It's a fairly slow process anyway, and I got distracted with some other projects.  It seems like there's still something I don't understand about how planks fit when curving around the bow.  

 

I've been edge bending them downward, and that helps getting them to fit, but I still can't get them to lie flat on the bulkheads.  In the bow area around bulkhead 2, I have to force them down to the bulkhead and it's hard to hold them there even with a couple of nails.  And if I do get it on the bulkhead, the planks don't want to stay in contact edgewise in between bulkheads.  I think I'll need a lot of filler to get all this smooth.

 

I'm furthest along on the port side.

[desalgu]

I think I'm doing a little better on the starboard side.

 

 

[DelF]

For the first planking I think that looks fine. You'll be amazed how different it will look after you sand it.

[desalgu]

I haven't posted anything for a while as I've been distracted with other stuff, but I've been slowly adding planks.  I've got approximately an inch gap on both sides left to do.  I'm getting there.

 

In this photo the problems I'm having with planks curving around bow on the bulkheads shows up better.  Lots of edges showing.  I'm gradually getting better at it.  Hoping by the time I start the 2nd layer of planks, I'll be able to do a better job.

[WalrusGuy]

Really nice planking!! She's coming up great! 😀

[James H]

That looks ok to me! 

 

Don't beat yourself up. When sanded, you'll have a nice surface to add the second layer.

[desalgu]

Appreciate the support and nice comments!  It helps keep me going.

 

Thought I'd take one last photo before finishing the first layer of planking.  The last 3 or more planks have fit on the bulkheads better than ones about halfway down.  As I got closer to the keel, it's been easier.  I'm almost there.

 

[desalgu]

Finished planking the hull last night.  Put some filler on and did first sanding today with course sand paper.  I can see places, like on the bow, where I need some more filler and sanding.  

 

 

[WalrusGuy]

Very nice!! 😁 

[desalgu]

Here's more pictures after a few hours sanding today.   I trimmed off excess planking at the stern and sanded it to match contours in stern frames.  For some reason I'm always a little confused by the stern, how stern planking and hull planking come together, so looked at pictures in the manual and tried to make mine look the same.  Photos in the manual are excellent.  I've never seen an instruction manual as good as this one.

 

Photos are real useful to show you areas that need more sanding, so I've been taking quite a few.  Looking by eye and using my fingers to feel for bumps, I miss a lot of little stuff.  It's probably good enough now, but I'll spend couple more hours sanding some places I see in photos.  It won't hurt. 

[DelF]

She’s looking fine - you’ve produced a really good surface for the second planking. 

[desalgu]

Thanks Derek!  I did a couple more 45 min sanding sessions, and have declared it "done".  Here's some things future builders might want to think about on the first layer of planking.

 

I planked from keel downward.  About halfway down the keel I added the first plank along the keel.  I felt like this gave me a target to shoot for as I got closer to the keel.  Originally I was going to plank down from bulwarks, and upward from keel and meet about 2/3 the way down toward the keel.  But once I got going, I didn't feel like this was necessary.

 

When I got to the end, there was a small, less than 1/8", gap that tapered to fine points.  I chose to fill this in with two pieces, split roughly at the halfway point, with the joint on a bulkhead.  It was much easier to fit in the little sticks doing it this way, instead of trying to fit one piece for the entire length.

 

I tapered all the planks at the bow.  Not a lot, but I'd guess around 3/32" to 1/8".  I also did an edge bend downward at the bow.  I found it needed more edge bend than I thought right at the bow.  I think that's one reason I couldn't get them to lay flat on the bulkheads in that area.  There may also be a twist involved, but I didn't try to bend that in.  

 

The problem area for me was around bulkhead 2 about halfway down.  On the first side, I tried to force the planks down to the bulkhead and hold with nails.  It would be ok at first, but after 10-15 min, the planks would raise up a little from the bulkhead, often just on one side, the lower side.  I did better on the 2nd side by adjusting the edge bends, making more or less edge bend as required.  It meant playing around with the edge bend quite a bit to get it to fit, but it's worth the effort.

 

On the first side, I didn't taper the first half dozen planks at the stern.  But it started looking like I needed to taper them to get them to run right along the hull, especially when going around the concave curve at the stern.  So I started making a long slight taper of about 3/32" over about 6 inches.  I ended up adding a small stealer plank right at the stern on first side.  

 

On the 2nd side, I tapered all the planks at the stern.  Same kind of taper I did on the first side, but did it to all the planks.  This helped going around the curves at the stern, and the planks seemed to lay along the hull easier.  However, as I got closer to the keel, I needed a couple of small stealer planks.  These are easy to do to fill in the gaps, so I'd recommend tapering planks to the stern.

 

I used a water based wood filler which worked fine.  Started with 100 grit sand paper, then 120 grit, and finally 220 grit.  Saw no need to go any finer on first layer.  I feel like you kind of want a little "tooth" to the wood for glue to stick to.  

 

I thought about painting hull with acrylic with some pigment, so I could see humps and bumps better.  But ended up decided not to do this.  It was easier to take closeup photos to see areas that needed more sanding.  I also felt along the hull with my fingers for bumps and places to sand, although I found I had to wipe off sawdust with damp cloth before doing this.  Sawdust makes your finger slide across hull and it feels a lot smoother than it is.

 

Here's some photos.  Surface is smoother than it looks.  There's wood, filler, glue, pencil marks, etc., so all this makes it look rougher than it is. 

 

[desalgu]

Here's views of bow from the front and stern from the back.

[Thukydides]

21 hours ago, desalgu said:

The problem area for me was around bulkhead 2 about halfway down.  On the first side, I tried to force the planks down to the bulkhead and hold with nails.  It would be ok at first, but after 10-15 min, the planks would raise up a little from the bulkhead, often just on one side, the lower side.  I did better on the 2nd side by adjusting the edge bends, making more or less edge bend as required.  It meant playing around with the edge bend quite a bit to get it to fit, but it's worth the effort.

I am finding that usually when I am having trouble getting the plank to bend round the bulkheads properly it either means I didn't fare the bulkhead enough or didn't edge bend enough. 

 

What i never appreciated until trying this was that sometimes you need the bend centered on two different points. 

 

Good job, it looks great

 

[desalgu]

I agree with you Thukydides.  Bulkhead fairing was fine, but I found it took a lot sharper edge bends than I originally thought, and each plank required a little different edge bend.  I was just starting to get the hang of it when I was done.  Hoping not to forget on next model!

 

Now I've got another problem to deal with.  I did some test fits of the stern post and counter.  Not quite sure how to explain this, but in the area where the planks curve from the stern post to the counter, I have them forming a concave curve.  Looking at the few pictures I can find on other logs of this area, it looks like others have kept planks along counter and then have them making a 90 deg turn at the stern post.  So the planks transition from the concave curve to a sharp 90 deg joint between counter and stern right at the stern post.   

 

Mine don't do that and if I glued stern post and tried to plank 2nd layer, the planks wouldn't hit stern post.  They'd be hanging off the stern.  In fact for the ones on the counter, I'd be doing good to get the planks hitting the edge of the counter like the side planks will do.  Thinking I need to trim back first layer and redo the planking or add some filler wood to get things to match up better, so when I add the 2nd layer, they'll fit to both the counter and stern post.

 

I didn't put much of a downward bend in the first layer planks right at the stern.  It would be a real sharp bend to hit the counter, which I could have done, but didn't.  My inexperience shows, not knowing how this stern section goes together.  Pictures in the manual look like 1st layer planks were almost cracked to get this bend in.  I saw that, but didn't match it thinking it was something that would be trimmed off.

 

Has anyone else run into this?

 

[Thukydides]

6 hours ago, desalgu said:

I was just starting to get the hang of it when I was done.  Hoping not to forget on next model!

That is the problem, I feel like I could do a much better job now knowing what I know. Hopefully we remember what we learned on the 2nd planking :).

[James H]

You really needed to bend those first planks inwards to tuck in under the stern counter area, like this:

 

 

I would look at adding some scrap timber/block in where those planks are cut short, then shape them in so there's a curve towards the counter...taking into account that you will have a second layer that will fit more or less flush with the counter itself, when complete.

 

[desalgu]

Wow!  Thanks James for the quick response!  

 

I have been coming to the same conclusion this morning.  I think I can trim back existing planks and put in some scrap wood blocks and shape it the way it's supposed to be.  This may end up being a relatively easy fix.

 

I found a small drawing in a book I have that shows planking in this area, and it's not like I thought.  I should look at this book more, but it's so detailed, I get lost pretty easily.  I can see how the 2nd layer of planking would fit over yours and look like it's supposed to.  Just my inexperience.  I never realized how planking in this area of stern post was done.   Always learning!

 

Thanks again!  

 

[desalgu]

I think I've got the stern planking/counter area fixed.  As I trimmed thru my planking I found the filler pieces that were part of the kit.  I hadn't sanded them enough when fairing the hull which caused most of the problem.  I'd rounded them off smoothly, but it took a lot more for planks to bend toward the counter like they're supposed to.  It took some trimming and sanding, and I added some filler, but that probably wasn't necessary.  It turned out an easy fix, and I didn't need any extra wood.

 

Here are photos of a test fit of stern post and counter after a little reshaping of the stern.  Now I'll be able to have 2nd layer planks fit up against the counter and stern post.  If I do it right, the top plank on the stern post will also hit the counter.  This is the first model I've built with this type of stern counter.

 

Many thanks for the quick responses to my question.  I'm very impressed with this web site and wish I'd gotten involved sooner when building the Syren.  There's no one around here that build model ships that I know of, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's no one in the state that does this, so I've worked very much on my own until this year.  You all have no idea how nice it is to get suggestions on how to do things and lots of encouragement.