How to make windlass.

[flying_dutchman2]

Hi, 

 

I am attempting to make the windlass for my Fluit, Zeehaen 1639. I made one but it is off on one side, so I want to make a new one. I make them by hand using a small planer, carving tools, knives, files, home made punches and sand paper. 

 

The first one is from walnut and want to stick with that wood as I have a lot of that and easy to cut. 

 

The easy part is making 8 sides with a plane and then it becomes a challenge. 

 

1st attempt 

 

Original plan (sorry about the measurement scribbles) 

 

Question. 

Is it better to make separate segments and then glue them together or one piece ? 

 

Has someone else done this by hand and are there any other posts on MSW about this? 

 

All advise is appreciated. 

Thanks, 

Marcus 

[Gregory]

If it was me, I would make the end pieces separate, and add the ratchet piece in the middle..

 

You might also try the building style that Chuck made with his little windless kit, although the shape is somewhat different..

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

I think your first effort is quite promising. "If at first your don't succeed, try, try again." as the saying goes.

 

I'd suggest that you try making up the "square" shape by taking one piece with the smaller dimensions and then gluing "cheeks" onto the middle of that to yield a larger square section for the larger diameter of the middle of the windlass. Then work the thinner ends and the thicker middle section down to the finished octagonal shapes. That might be a bit easier to work a smooth transition between the thicker middle and the thinner ends. Sharp tools and thinner cuts are the trick. Sneak up on the shape. Don't try to get it perfect with large "bites."

 

Other than that, I think you've got the approach down pretty well. Walnut may or may not be easy to work, depending upon the grain and hardness of the particular piece of walnut you are working. If it works for you, go for it. 

[flying_dutchman2]

@Gregory

I'll take a good look at Chuck"s windlass. I like the idea that the slats with the holes are glued on. One can make them more accurate. 

 

@Bob Cleek

You should see my box of tried parts. Some items have been done several times. Practice, practice is how it gets better and that item will only have to be done once on the next ship. 

 

You said it "thinner cuts", I need to control my movements better. I'm using the softer parts of the walnut. Sharp tools is what I use and wearing kevlar gloves so my fingers are protected. 

 

Marcus 

[amateur]

Hi Marcus,

 

To complicate things: are you sure it is an 8 sided windlass?

Quite often the Dutch use(d) 6-sided ones. 

 

I don't have much experience in this type, but I think working from the thickest part is the easiest: plane the whole thing 6 sided, starting from (almost:) ) square stock (you can use the sides to mark the part that has to be removed). Then you can mark the thinner ends of the windlass. 

Finall, remove the middle part, and replace by that iron 'gear'.

I found making two identical parts more difficult than making one, and splitting it.

btw the square holes for the spokes are in the outer part, and not, as in your picture in the thicker middle part.

 

Jan

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by amateur

[Bob Cleek]

26 minutes ago, flying_dutchman2 said:

Sharp tools is what I use and wearing kevlar gloves so my fingers are protected. 

I'm not sure if by this is indicated that your are carving the workpiece while holding it in your hand. If so, it is far better to secure the workpiece solidly and then use both hands to control the carving tool. Two hands are better than one and the Kevlar gloves aren't as necessary. Maybe this is a no-brainer, but I've seen guys trying to do small carving when holding the piece in their hand and in that instance, yes, Kevlar gloves are highly advisable! Two hands on the cutting tool also makes for far more steady and precise cuts. A jeweler's vise of some sort which can be held firmly in a larger vise to hold small parts securely should be part of any modeler's tool kit. Fortunately, they are inexpensive, so buy the best professional model you can find. Cheap Chinese knock-offs abound!

 

 

This style of jeweler's vise is also very good for pulling wire through a draw plate. The serrations on the jaws are sized to hold various gauges of wire.

 

 

The head of these jewelers' peg clamps screws off so it can be mounted in a bench vise instead of being held in the hand. It will hold all sorts of shaped pieces by moving the pegs around as needed.

 

 

This Stanley portable bench vise is probably the best of its type on the market. It can be moved so the workpiece is presented at any angle.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[allanyed]

Hi Marcus,

Just my own personal take on this, but I would use the hardest and closest grained wood that I could find.  It is easier to control the cut of the hard wood with SHARP chisels, sanding sticks, files and scalpel, taking little cuts at a time.  

 

Kevlar gloves??  Neat idea, but based on your experience since going to these, do the gloves cause more slips because you lose the feel of the wood when using a scalpel or chisel?  Would love to hear more about this. 

 

Allan 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by allanyed

[flying_dutchman2]

@amateur

The drawing shows it is 8 sided. Wierd looking 8 sided so I'm doing a regular 8 sided. 

I am working on two attempts, one is where I will do it in 3 pieces and gluing them together and one is doing it in one piece, again. 

 

 

@Bob Cleek

Using a little vice bolted to a Dremel drill stand clamped to the table. I would not attempt holding it in my hand. 

 

 

@allanyed 

Allen, 

Thanks for the advice on the wood, I'll remember that next time when I look in my stash. 

Not really Kevlar but a fillet glove. 

 

Yes, you lose the feel of the wood and the wood slides a bit. I just wished the had little rubber grips and they may make something like it. The glove has protected my hand several times from a knife. It is cut-resistant NOT cut proof or puncture resistant. 

 

Marcus 

[amateur]

Hi Marcus, 

 

that drawing is not showing the profile of the windlass, but the cross-section of the ratchet-wheel. Hence the weird appearance.

 

Jan

[Louie da fly]

Marcus - surely that windlass is 11 mm, not  110 mm? 

 

Though in my own case I did use walnut, because I had a piece that was already round, from a mast that hadn't worked for me, usually when I make anything like that I use pear wood - something hard with a fine grain - the finer the better.

 

Mine was simpler than yours -

 but the principle is the same - sharp tools (I use a No. 11 craft knife and replace the blades often), and don't hurry. And if it goes wrong, do it again till you get it right. I've had to do that any number of times with stuff I've been carving.

 

And I don't wear gloves at all (I do occasionally cut myself, so I'm not necessarily recommending it, but I find it gives me better "feel" for the piece). But yes, I'd recommend you put the thing in a vise to carve it. It stabilizes the work (and reduces the chance of getting your hands cut).

 

Steven

[flying_dutchman2]

@amateur

 

Hi Jan, 

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I looked at all the plans which are all 2D and all the books I have and I can't tell if it 6 or 8 sided. I am just assuming it is 8 sided. I found a picture on another site from a Fluit and he has it 8 sided.

 

 

From a professional model maker 

 

 

I'll pm Ab Hoving here on MSW and see what his opinion is. He is the expert on 17 century Dutch ships. 

 

@Louie da fly

 

Hi Steven, 

 

Scale of the Zeehaen is 1: 37.5, so it is 110mm. The plan is 1: 75 and I doubled it all to get a bigger model with more details. Just don't know where to put it once finished. Oh well.

Sharp tools is what I use as well, vice for stabilization, glove depending on what I cut. 

 

Marcus 

 

[flying_dutchman2]

Ab Hoving replied 

He thinks either 6 or 8 sided existed. Depending on the size of the ship and the power one needed to use it. 

Free choices. 

 

For the Dutch speakers. 

(Ik denk dat beide varianten voorkwamen. Uitgaande van de grootte van het schip en de kracht die nodig was om te bedienen. Vrije keuze dus.

groet,

ab) 

 

Marcus 

[Louie da fly]

7 hours ago, flying_dutchman2 said:

Scale of the Zeehaen is 1: 37.5, so it is 110mm.

 

Yes, I realised overnight that I'd been thinking in terms of my own builds, where the deck furniture is much smaller, due to smaller vessels at a smaller scale.

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:38 PM, Louie da fly said:

And if it goes wrong, do it again till you get it right. I've had to do that any number of times with stuff I've been carving.

 

(See my recent post regarding the mast step for the nef I'm currently building. First result pretty bad - second one, totally ok)

 

Steven

[wefalck]

I would make it in five parts or actually three, as two of them will be cut in half to make two: 

 

- the larger diameter central sections with the ends sloping towards the thinner section

 

- the smaller diameter outer sections with the pointed ends for the cone bearings of the barrel  (it is interesting that the Dutch used cone bearings for the windlasses of their small craft until the beginning of the 20th century)

 

- the ratchet wheel (which may actually be faced by two 'washers' in addition as per your drawing)

 

Mark the centre of your (square) stock and drill for metal pins before you start shaping the pieces. This gives you a reference so that everything is concentric, when assembled.

 

For the thinner part I would initially shape the 6-/8-sided barrel and then cut this into sections. Shaping the square holes for the handles is difficult, so I would cut each side into three sections, file slots with square cross-sections into the end and then glue this together again. The pointed end I also would shape only then.

[flying_dutchman2]

@wefalck

When I going to build the Heemskerck (other ship of Tasman) I will follow your method. I made the windlass for the Zeehaen in one piece and the results were very good. 

Marcus 

[wefalck]

Do you have any machine tools, specifically a lathe ? Here is building log of a colleague of mine, where he shows step by step how he makes a similar windlass: https://forum.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2230#p28040 (not sure, whether this is visible without registering. Apologies in this case).

[flying_dutchman2]

7 hours ago, wefalck said:

Do you have any machine tools, specifically a lathe ? Here is building log of a colleague of mine, where he shows step by step how he makes a similar windlass: https://forum.arbeitskreis-historischer-schiffbau.de/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2230#p28040 (not sure, whether this is visible without registering. Apologies in this case).

I have machine tools, but no lathe. I made a jig to hook up a variable speed drill in it and that is my ersatz lathe. 

I need to register to read it, so I will register and practice my German ☺️

Marcus