Niagara by lb0190 - Model Shipways - 1/64

[augie]

Glad you have resolved the issue.  This stuff can drive you crazy sometimes.  It's all part of the fun ?????

[lb0190]

Glad you have resolved the issue.  This stuff can drive you crazy sometimes.  It's all part of the fun ?????

 

Yes, I'm told it's all part of the fun. It hurts so good! OK Sjors - it's time to name that tune and artist...

 

I'm still sanding on the starboard side. It's getting close to where the planks will almost touch the gun sills. I forgot to mention I was able to remove the three installed planks. Once a plank is installed and the initial glue has dried (Titebond in this case)I normally back it up with CA glue which I had yet to do - good thing I stopped short for this step.

Edited July 7, 2013 by lb0190

[lb0190]

Over the past day or two, I've made good progress on installing exterior bulwark planks, so it's now time to rip them off I need to pay closer attention to minor details and hopefully avoid this exercise in the future. I did not notice the bundle of wood I cut the planks from apparently had a odd sized plank in the batch. The one plank was slightly wider than all of the others, which did not appear as obvious, until I stacked up a number of rows to where the cumulative affect became noticable.

 

The use of isopropyl alcohol worked well to weaken the glue allowing removal of the planks.

 

QUESTION: am I correct to assume areas where the alcohol soaked into but wood was not removed, will simply dry and the adhesion of the glue will still hold over time?

 

After fuming about the situation for a which, I realized that in reality, once a ship is completed you have probably built at least two ships in respect to material and money. 

Edited July 10, 2013 by lb0190

[augie]

Larry - I believe your assumption is correct.  The alcohol may have temporarily softened (and even slightly redistributed) the underlying glue but once it evaporates the glue should be fine.

 

As for building 2 ships ........ join the club

[popeye the sailor]

yea.......you will find that in kits every once in a while.   it would depend on the height of the bulwark.......if you can get it to work out,  you can use them,  but as long as you match the width of the plank for the entire strake.  if not.......then you did right in removing them.  the alcohol will evaporate.......hopefully you got the excess glue off.   the plank can still be reused,  but only if you plan to paint it.......I don't think it would look too good if you tried to stain it

[lb0190]

I spent the past few days removing planks that did not fit well, fairing the bulkheads better on both port and starboard sides and applying four planks along the full length of the starboard side. My issue with the gap between the planks and gun port plank-sheer was resolved with fairing and very thin shims for two gun ports. Of course the issue was successfully resolved primarily due to the help and advice from my fellow MSW builders. The fifth and sixth photo below is where I tried to show the gap issue is resloved.

 

I sanded, primed and applied three very thin coats of paint to the planks before gluing them in place. Once the remaining planks three are installed, I'll sand again and paint, hopefully with an airbrush if I can mask off the area well enough. My goal is to hopefully improve on having visible plank seams, as compared to my inside (green) bulwark planks.

 

Once I had two ochre colored (off yellow) planks installed, I filed open the sweep ports just enough to allow my file to fit later, after the upper planks are installed. This would negate the need to open up the sweep ports using a plunge cut with my rotary tool as I did with the interior planks - much too risky at this point...

 

Hopefully I'll get the three remaining planks installed this weekend and start cutting in the gun ports and sweep ports.

 

I hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Edited July 15, 2014 by lb0190

[augie]

Nice catch here Larry.  That gun port gap has all but disappeared  .  I guess most of us learn early on that you really can't spend too much time on fairing.  I realize now that my 'hey, that looks pretty good', assessment of my own fairing resulted in an awful lot of 'fine tuning' midway through the planking process but at least not a major rework.

 

Here's to us both nailing it next time around

[lb0190]

As you can see from the first two picture below, painting the planks before installation was pretty much a waste of time for someone with my newbie skill levels. Planking in itself is challenging enough but I believe the single planked hulls raises the difficulty level a few bars.

 

After sanding the bulwark planks the plank installation looks much better and I decided it looks good enough to keep (at least until I see how it looks with paint). I started cutting out the gun-ports just like I did with the inside planks. Plunge cut to open up the ports and sand with the jeweler files and emery boards. I have yet to sand/shape any sweep ports but that will be done after completion of the gun ports.

 

I really nicked and scuffed up the interior paint along the way and fixed it several times, so again lesson learned – hold off on fixing paint nicks until after the planking is complete.

Edited July 15, 2014 by lb0190

[kenr]

Hi Larry

I have the same problem with the areas I have painted already.

Scuffs and nicks all over. So no more paint until the hull is finished,

sanded and filled. I am also going to drill all the holes for eyebolts,cleats etc before repainting

 

Regards

Ken

[Bahamas Diver]

Ken Larry, I would not bother drilling holes for cleats/ eyebolts etc. before painting.  The paint will fill in the holes and you will at best waste your time.  Larry, do you plan to fram the insides of the gun ports? 

[lb0190]

Hi David,

 

Yes, only the vertical sides at this time. What are your thoughts on this?

[Rich_engr]

David- I concur on not drilling for eyebolts, etc. until after painting.  Luckily I didn't drill mine until after the bulwarks were painted and done- had no problem finding the holes and installing things.  

 

Larry- from my framing of the ports, I found that it was rather difficult to install the 1/32 strips on the vertical sides.  Of course, from my earlier mistakes when sizing up the ports (my overly-eager file made them all oversized), I just used the strips as the frame, then verrrrrry lightly sanded those into the correct size.  For the sweep ports, you will see that mine appear to be framed, when in fact I used the 1/32 strips on the outside, then gently sanded back to the proper size.  (Again, proper size is what I deemed it to be- right or wrong, accurate or inaccurate- it was my call).  But the main thing I strove for was to keep them parallel and perpendicular to the waterway (at least according to my eyes~).

 

But you will obviously want to do this after planking the inner and outer bulwarks.  I cannot remember if the frames themselves are supposed to "stick out" from the side planks, or if they're flush with the planks.

 

But she's looking good- keep it up!  Yeah, in hindsight I know that one can never spend too much time fairing- that's one of those areas that's an acquired art form and science garnered through constant experience!!!  But we'll get 'em next time for sure!  

[lb0190]

Hi Rich,

 

My plan has been to drill for items such as cleats after painting and like all other steps evaluate the process as I complete the task. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.

 

I agree framing the ports looks very difficult, especially the sweep ports. I'm not very satisfied with the frames I installed around the aft gun ports and may replace them if I get better results on the starboard gun ports. My revised plan is to cut some very thin wood that hopefully fits the gun port opening at the top and bottom very well and then file off the excess to the contour of the bulwark planks. I may lay some thin tape on the planks to help protect them from the emery board. The sweep ports look almost impossible to frame, but maybe I'll learn from framing in the larger ports. I'm keeping the option open not to frame in the sweep ports if framing is simply beyond my ability (or patience).

 

My son and two granddaughters said they would be by today. They want to fish from the lakes in our community (catch and release only). The lakes were stocked a few years ago and we're on at least the 5^th generation of bass, blue gill and a few other types I've forgotten. The lakes (seven) range from one to twenty-four acres, but the local fishermen have identified which are the best to fish from.

[lb0190]

I've been sanding on the starboard bulwark side for the past three days and I'm ready for a change (no political message intended). The top plank is clamped in place for a trial fit and look-see, but I'll hold off on gluing it in place until after I paint the planks below.

 

I had a problem with the fwd gun port where I filed too much and had to add sawdust/white glue mix to fill it back in. A little paint and the boo-boo will hopefully go away. I also tried to get a photo to show where I added a thin spacer at a gun port sill.

 

The inboard upper plank needs filed down ~1.5 mm before the main rail will fit correctly. Do you think it's best to hold off on mounting the main-rail until after the cleats, deck and pin rails are in place? I really want to prime and paint the exterior bulwark but based on my results so far I'll simply scar it up. I suspect waiting untl the hull is completely planked is the best time to do this (???).

 

Thanks for mentioning the off center gun mount holes. I wold not have noticed that until much later and it alerted me to sand the ports to size while at the same time trying to center the mount holes.

 

Somehow I managed to get better close-up photos than normal. One of these days I need to read the instructions for this new camera. Point and shoot does not mean you get good results! Point and pray fits much better.

 

Enough babble from me, it's time to get back to sanding.... SAWUST the stuff dreams are made of (actually nightmares)     .

Edited July 15, 2014 by lb0190

[popeye the sailor]

the gun ports look real good.......nice! 

[rfolsom]

Hello, Larry;

 

Very nice build!  I wish I was closer to where you are;  as a relative newbie,  I decided to replicate a small portion of the ship (bulwarks G, H, and I) down to the reference line, and build a mini-model that I could plank, test the painting and carronade mounting, eyebolt positions, deck caulking, etc.  It's actually working out better than I thought, and I will probably end up with a 3 x 3 inch little display I can give as a gift

[popeye the sailor]

I know that kits like this have been out there for quite some time...........but you pose a very interesting  idea for those who have trouble making the delicate curves,  of planking a full hull.   waterline kits........build from the waterline up!  you still get to the deck and all the goodies,  and you can have the masts..........with the proper support framing,  of course.   this is also a good way to test out new ideas and parts of the deck that are the most interesting.

[Sjors]

Planking around the gun ports looks perfect Larry !

Have a good trip and smoke for me a peace pipe     

 

[Sjors]

Sounds like a GOOD plan !!!!!

 

 

[lb0190]

_{Port side exterior bulwark planks are installed other than the top plank which will be added later, after painting.  Next step is to start cutting out the gun/sweep ports. This method of installing planks over the ports to allow cutting in later wastes a lot of wood. I ended up using every piece provided.}

 

_{Not sure why, but I ended up having to install an additional plank to get the correct exterior height and to match up with the height of the inside bulwark (which complied with the print). I had to sand the edges of the planks more than normal due a a vertical wavey edge which I sure contributed to the outcome.}

[mainstay]

Hi Larry,

 

Using a scalpel I opened all my gunports in less than an hour. The edges still need a little touch-up, but the basic job was very quick. Pix on my build log.

 

Joseph Osborne

Carlisle, PA USA

[lb0190]

Thanks Joseph! I completed both gun and sweep ports this morning. The process I used was not too painful - I just felt like complaining a bit

Today I also worked on cleaning up the bow planks and started reworking the aft gun ports. I was never very satisfied with how they turned out so now is the perfect tie to sand off the paint and make a few adjustments with the file.

[lb0190]

Time for an update and a few photos. I've fussed with the gun and sweep ports to the point I'm done with them, at least in regard to cutting them out and squaring up the corners. I need to install the 1/32” gun-port end pieces (just not sure when is the right time to do this, in respect to painting) and for right now, I'm planning on not installing them on the sweep ports – that is always subject to change and probably will numerous times.   

 

Other work accomplished:

 

• Reworked the aft gunports due to their being too small, plus I was never satisfied with how they turned out. I also sanded off most to the black paint on the aft planking. Originally the paint looked pretty good to me, but I nicked it up and repainted so many times it simply looked horrid to me. I'll repaint this area when I paint the rest of the hull. Question: I have not removed 100% of the paint – do you think enough was removed??? I would appreciate your opinion by referencing photo 2046 below.

 

• Installed the counter planks but still need to clean up the ends and finish the rudder shaft hole.

 

• Cleaned up and opened the bow area where the bowsprit will be located. The simulated bowsprit is there for the photo op.

[patrickmil]

Hey Larry, your progress is looking great! I think you have removed enough of the black paint for a good recoating. Your Niagara is looking fantastic so far.

[lb0190]

Thanks Patrick. I was hoping I removed nough paint, the wood has to be getting thin by now. I'm glad I coated the back of the planks with glue.

 

How are your fingers doing? Have you been able to work on your ship lately?

[popeye the sailor]

hull planking?..........is that your next step?  

[Rich_engr]

She's looking good Larry- the paint removal looks ok (don't want the planks too thin).  Gun ports look nice- framing will be fun.    

 

The bowsprit looks like it will make for an interesting and challenging project- I'm somewhat timid about starting my masts & spars...

 

Regarding the planking, are you using a steam bender to shape the planks?  I found the ME plank bender (soldering iron with a giant round head) to be my best friend when planking!  (If you do have it, use a couple of scrap pieces to get a feel for steam bending- it's a lot of fun and you can do quite a bit with it.)

[lb0190]

She's looking good Larry- the paint removal looks ok (don't want the planks too thin).  Gun ports look nice- framing will be fun.    

 

The bowsprit looks like it will make for an interesting and challenging project- I'm somewhat timid about starting my masts & spars...

 

Regarding the planking, are you using a steam bender to shape the planks?  I found the ME plank bender (soldering iron with a giant round head) to be my best friend when planking!  (If you do have it, use a couple of scrap pieces to get a feel for steam bending- it's a lot of fun and you can do quite a bit with it.)

Hi Rich,

 

Thanks for the help. I thought the same regarding the bowsprit, it looks challenging but doable ( hopefully). So far, I'm simply soaking planks in hot water for 20-30 minutes, clamping in place and letting them dry overnight - a very slow process. I need to move up to a real steam bender like yours or I'll never get done.

[lb0190]

I have not accomplished much over the past few days due to my back acting up again, but maybe enough to provide a quick update. I've read a number of articles regarding hull planking and initially thought I would first install the garboard plank, but I'm still not confident on the process yet, so I'll start the hull planking elsewhere.

 

I installed the a temporary planking batten on the straboard side for planking band A, and started adding planks from the stern. In order to try and keep the plank tapering and butt placement correct I made a chart to reference.

 

If you reference the chart in the photo, you will see numbers that represent  the distance from the temp plank to the installed upper plank for each bulkhead. There should be eight planks for the band, so the next number down is the calculated width of the plank at each bulkhead which is simply the width divided by the number of planned planks. I also added a diagram of the planned butt placements for quick reference.

 

[Rich_engr]

Good work Larry!  You used the exact same table I made for the plank widths (both belt and plank widths) and butts (except mine has dots for the butts)!  haha!!  Planking looks good- it'll take a while and may get boring at times, but just push through it.    

 

You're getting the hang of it for sure!  Just remember to give your back a rest now and then- even mine gets tight from hunching over for hours on end.  

 

Looking great!