Mayflower by LCdr Dave - Billing Boats - 1:60

[LCdr Dave]

BikerMart, I would say, from your signature, that you have a lot of Billing experience. You keep coming back, though. That says something.

Dave

[LCdr Dave]

Here’s where I got so far after an evening of planking. I added tick marks to help with the planking but then over rode them as I went because I realized that I made an error early on. Somehow I thought my planks were 7mm wide but they turned out to be 6mm. Maybe there is an inconsistency in widths and I picked the widest by bad luck? As a result I was going to have to taper each one by an extra 1mm and I didn’t want to do that. Once I get this band done, I will recalculate so that the widest bulwark can use full-width plank. 

 

 

As a bit of an aside, here is a shot of my bending station 🙂

 

 

Dave

[BikerMart]

Dave. I have found that the combination of a Billings kit and my experience level has produced a reasonable representation of the vessel. As I have said before though, I am not seeking to produce a historically accurate ship. For me, it is the build process itself that generates the pleasure, not necessarily the end result. Martin

[LCdr Dave]

Things have seemingly gone awry. Despite my best efforts at keeping the planks from curving up at the stem, it seems that is where it is going. I am trying to cut a curved plank out of sheet basswood because no amount of bending seems to be enough to fit to the bulwarks. I used some tape to get the curve and then traced it onto the sheet and, using a sharp knife, cut it out and sanded to size.

 

 

 

 

While that worked to get the curve, I am still thinking that the planks are curving up too much at the stem. You can seem from the “tick” marks, that they are all converging at the same point - like a starburst. I tried to figure out how to put drop planks in but, again, from my untrained eye, it seems that the drop plank won’t be longer than the first bulwark before it will be at full width, allowing me to put two half-width planks in. I thought that laying out the planks so that they lay flush on the bulwarks would keep me out of trouble but it seems that it just resulted in the convergence that I am dealing with now. Something happened early on that I now need to correct.

I feel that, somehow, the planks at the stem need to be wider. They can’t stay at the half-width they are now at. So I need to put a full width plank in, let it lay naturally on the bulwarks and fit in a drop plank or two further on towards the stern. This may not be realistic but, as I keep reminding myself, this will get painted anyway.

 

Here is what the bow currently looks like….

 

 

 

Thanks for looking.

Cheers,

Dave

[TOM G]

Your garboard plank is to far up the bow...... as you progress your plank's will end up with tooth pic ends. You have to correct the garboard, and start over.

[LCdr Dave]

10 hours ago, TOM G said:

Your garboard plank is to far up the bow...... as you progress your plank's will end up with tooth pic ends. You have to correct the garboard, and start over.

Hence my problem….what should my garboard look like? Did I make it too narrow? Should it have been wider and then curved in towards the keel/stem more? I don’t know how to make it not curve up the stem. Maybe it’s obvious to others more experienced, not to me. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

Dave

[Baker]

If you taper these planks at the bow (definitely one of the two)
Then your problem is somewhat solved

[allanyed]

Have you tried following the methods in the tutorial A Primer on Planking in the MSW articles data base by David Antscherl?  

Allan

[TOM G]

11 hours ago, LCdr Dave said:

Hence my problem….what should my garboard look like? Did I make it too narrow? Should it have been wider and then curved in towards the keel/stem more? I don’t know how to make it not curve up the stem. Maybe it’s obvious to others more experienced, not to me. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

Dave

Look at page 20, then read up on the garboard plank..... you have to make a new one.      https://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Framing_and_Planking/plankingprojectbeginners.pdf  

Edited July 28, 2022 by TOM G
update

[LCdr Dave]

Thanks for checking in. I did read and re-read the primers, YouTube videos and “how-to”s but I am a visual learner and it seems that I am still missing somethings (obviously). The planking primer suggests that the garboard plank might be wider but I’m not sure how wide. I ended up making mine narrower because I was trying to keep it going up the stem. I guess it needs to actually curve inwards (I marked a purple line where I think it should go).

 

 

To my (again) untrained eye it would appear that the garboard plank and the ones to follow will have a wicked “hook” to the keel-side - but maybe that’s just me… It also suggests putting a temporary batten at “max width of the plank to be used” which I did do the first time but not at the width of the plank so I will put it down at the 6mm width and see where that gets me.

I didn’t want to pull out the existing planks but they came out without too much problem so I guess that’s something.

Thanks again for the help,

Dave

 

[TOM G]

1 hour ago, LCdr Dave said:

Thanks for checking in. I did read and re-read the primers, YouTube videos and “how-to”s but I am a visual learner and it seems that I am still missing somethings (obviously). The planking primer suggests that the garboard plank might be wider but I’m not sure how wide. I ended up making mine narrower because I was trying to keep it going up the stem. I guess it needs to actually curve inwards (I marked a purple line where I think it should go).

 

 

To my (again) untrained eye it would appear that the garboard plank and the ones to follow will have a wicked “hook” to the keel-side - but maybe that’s just me… It also suggests putting a temporary batten at “max width of the plank to be used” which I did do the first time but not at the width of the plank so I will put it down at the 6mm width and see where that gets me.

I didn’t want to pull out the existing planks but they came out without too much problem so I guess that’s something.

Thanks again for the help,

Dave

 

The plank flow's into the keel.... no wicked hook.

[LCdr Dave]

Oi, so it’s been about a year. We moved and it took a while to get things to a point where I could start hobbying again.  After pulling off the planks last year I am back attempting to make it work once again. I did some more reading and attempted to find more resources but, alas, I have not been too fruitful in my search. So it continues. I will get to work as best as I can, the bottom will be painted so I am not going to worry about it too much. A bit of a cop out, maybe, but at some point construction needs to move ahead.

I lined the hull to figure out where to put the planks. The tape seemed to flow well, so I went with it.

 

I laid a few planks down and this time widened my garboard strake to see if that would help. I will also try narrowing the forward parts of the planks to see if that helps. Wish me luck!

[LCdr Dave]

My apologies…it seems as if my pictures rearranged themselves…

[LCdr Dave]

Here’s a question for the ether…the kit came with 4 types of rigging rope but they are all tan colour. Do people dye them or just bin them and get something after-market?

[Baker]

That is your own choice.
If you are satisfied with the quality of the rope provided in the kit. Then use this.
if not, buy better ones.

 

The standing rigging is normaly darker than the rest. 

Darker tan or black (own choice)

[Baker]

9 hours ago, LCdr Dave said:

My apologies…it seems as if my pictures rearranged themselves…

 

[LCdr Dave]

Maybe my hiatus and further study has produced results. Planking seems to be going well. I have a bit of a routine going where I form and shape the strake, leave it to set during the day or over night, glue it up and get another ready. 

 

I definitely won’t win any awards but if I can get a half-way decent shape I will be happy. Had to put in a correction strake, that I know is improper but evens out the band. 
 

 

 

As I work my way through this I am trying to figure out paint/stain schemes. 
As always, any comments or suggestions are welcome. 

[LCdr Dave]

Added a few more strakes. I noticed that the gap that is forming is looking more and more wonky. I remeasured the gaps at each bulwark and recalculated plank widths in an effort to keep the planks somewhat parallel. 
 

At one point I noticed that one of the planks buckled or wasn’t clamped properly to the frame and I had to cut it out and glue in another piece. 
 

 

it looks worse in the picture but I think sanding will fix it. On some good news I tried the wood filler I had and stained it and it matched the wood really well. 
I have about 3 strakes to do on one side and 4 on the other. Getting close!

 

[LCdr Dave]

Got the hull closed in this weekend! Looks pretty rough but I think I managed ok. It will get painted so putty and sanding will hopefully give it a nice look. After this I assume the beak should get assembled and affixed, followed by the various rubbing strakes and trim. I was going to leave the rudder for last, once I was done manhandling the hull. And then…rigging!

[Baker]

For your first planking, very nicely done.

[LCdr Dave]

I started to patch and sand the hull. Gave it an initial knock down with 120 grit. Now I’m using Lepage’s wood filler and find that applying it with a palette knife wetted with some water helps it go on smoother. Otherwise it is dry and crumbles.

 

 

I think I will need a few iterations of sanding and puttying. 
 

thanks for looking. 
Dave

[Knocklouder]

Patch and sand , patch and sand, now is the time to make the hull perfect, skim coats sand repeat  lol. Looking good  

[LCdr Dave]

Knocklouder, isn’t it a process though?

it was pointed out to me early on that the angle of the stern planking above the deck (there is probably a name for this) was incorrect. A look at the drawing proved this correct but I wanted wait until the hull was planked before dealing with. …and here we are. 
 

 

Measured the distance from deck to top of planking at the front and carried it to the rear and cut it out. Sharp knife worked wonders and everything came out clean. 
 

 

thanks for looking. 
Dave

[LCdr Dave]

The kit has a mix of plastic and wood, which is annoying. Getting the two mediums to match in colour will be a challenge. Where I can, I will replace plastic with wood. Here are the 2 supports at the stern between the leaded lites. 
 

 

 

thanks for looking. 
Dave

[LCdr Dave]

Here is my biggest beef with the kit. The plastic beak. I was considering making it in wood but it might be too much of a challenge. Not sure if anyone else has. 
 

 

These are the wooden supports that hold the plastic grating and beak. 
 

 

It seems that either the grating is too small or the plastic sides are too long or the wooden sprit (keel extension) is too long - or a combination. Without any drawings showing the assembly it is hard to know which. 
 

 

 

The grating sits flat but the sides (pictured upside down) are curved. Is one supposed to conform to the other? It’s a mystery….and one I will have to ponder over for some time. 
Any comments are welcome. Thanks for checking in

Dave

[Knocklouder]

Hi Dave, my ship is from Amati.  And my beak is plastic and it touches all sides. It looks like you can take the side your fingers are on and sand it off then cut the bow piece a little  smaller, but that may not be right. . My friend  @David Lester has build a Billings Mayflower  you may ask him  . 

Check out his log for his Mayflower, I am sure you'll copy his crows nest  at least. His is one of those magnificent  logs that make us newbie  drop our jaws in amazement . Hope this helps. 

[LCdr Dave]

Dude, thanks for that.. I will see if I can find his build log. 
cheers,

Dave

[David Lester]

Hi Dave,

I hope you don't mind my chiming in. I honestly just don't get including plastic parts in a wooden kit. It they're going to do that, then why not just make the whole thing out of plastic and be done with it.

 

My build log probably won't be of too much help, because I built the Model Shipways version, not the Billing version and they seem to differ a fair bit.

 

There seems to be a problem with the way your grating is sitting on the stem piece. The grating appears to be sitting up against the hull quite well, but by the time you get to the end of the stem piece, the grating is sitting well to the port side. I'm not sure what needs to be adjusted to get the grating centred on top of the stem piece for its entire length, but if you can do that then that should go a long way to getting the side pieces to fit.

 

If you don't like the plastic side pieces, I don't think it's too big a job to make new ones out of wood. Is there some billet material of the same thickness that's big enough? If so, I would use that; if not, I would just glue up some strip material of the right thickness. Sometimes glued up stripwood will tend to split or come apart, especially if you have to cut close to a seam or against the grain. I sometimes glue the strips to a piece of paper which gives the whole thing a surprising amount of strength. If the piece is to be used in such a way that the paper side won't show, I leave it on. If it's going to show, (as it would in this case) I just sand the paper off after the piece is cut out.You can use the plastic pieces as templates, trace them and cut the new pieces out.

 

Another big advantage to replacing the parts, besides appearance, is that there is always a lot of flexibility with wood to make minor adjustments to make them fit. (I don't believe I have ever been able to build a truly symmetrical model; fortunately you can only ever see one side at a time, so I don't worry about it.) Plastic doesn't give this kind of flexibility.

 

Not sure if that's of any help or not, but hopefully it is.

 

David

 

 

[LCdr Dave]

David, thanks for chiming in! There is so little information on this kit and no build logs. I found, now, two people who have built it but just have a finished product to show. 
I agree with the combination media idiocy. Why!?

I will try your idea with the paper backing. The backside will be hard to see once the sprit and rigging is installed. I will also use your ideas for the “Y”-shaped thingy (all sailors are cringing at this landlubber’s use of lingo) and deadman. 

The grating isn’t glued yet. Just trying to keep multiple pieces together with two hands. I think I will need to shorten the wooden keel bit to match the length of the grating/beak assembly. 
thanks for looking. 
Dave
 

[Baker]

The only wooden kit I made was from Billings (Vasa). 
My experience with their plastic parts wasn't also really "Wow" compared to the "real" plastic kits from Revell etc.
The plastic parts from Billings are probably cast in short run moulds. The kits from Revell etc. are cast in real large moulds, much more expensive and intended for mass production. You will also not find holes or pins in the Billings parts to neatly glue the parts together.

 

Considering the front of the grating and the front part of your beakhead appear to be the same length (yellow lines). I would glue the sides of the beakhead to the grating. and then make it fit your model.
You may have to adjust the grating slightly so that the whole assembly moves in the direction of the arrow.