Thermopylae by My Fathers Son - or as near as I can get it

[My Fathers Son]

On 1/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Ahoy, Simon !   You are drawing me closer to 'the dark side' I've heard of on the forum ... that is, a scratch built hull - from the frames up.  As mentioned elsewhere, I've studied the 'big T' with an eye towards busting the Revells 1:96 version ... but her lines are demonstrably different enough from the CS that just changing the bow and stern profiles won't satisfy.

 

  Of course I want to use commercially available fittings (like blocks & deadeyes - no way I'm laboring over those bits) like a majority of builders, so the label of 'semi-scratch' would apply.  This seems a step up from a 'busted' kit (which is a step up from simply building a kit 'out of the box').  Now my noggin has been turning over the various ways a hull can be designed & constructed with commonly available tools, and I'm forming a novel way to do it.  'Still working out the particulars, so I won't post anything until I've got a good method and photos of a good result.

 

  There's a chance I'll fail or encounter too many hitches, so the fall back (plan 2) method will be straightforward bulkheads slotted to a keel - that will always work.  If later I'm of a mind that I like woodworking much more than rigging, there is a concept to build clipper hulls with accurate lines (and essential part of a ship's beauty) and the deck houses, etc. - but only mast stubs.  These would not require a case since an occasional cleaning with pressurized air (Dust-Off) will tidy them up.  Or if cased, much smaller and transportable ones can be built.

 

  I'm  absolutely loving all the clipper builds - past and present - on MSW.                            Johnny

Ah, remember, once you start down that path, forever will it control your destiny, you don't know the power of the Dark Side, lol. I have made a 1:200 (approx) of this hull and yes, it has very graceful lines and frankly, looks like a racing yacht, at least before you add the fore and aft decks and 3 masts.

 

The drawings attached to my last post are the best I have been able to extract from the line drawings and then refined by matching them to the fore/aft horizontal and vertical planes. I look foreward to seeing your log, I want to finish the rigging on CS before physically starting on this project so you may be starting before me. In the mean time, I am reading Underhill and using the tables to guide the dimensions of the yards and spars, the line drawings I have only give me the length in proportion to the hull.

 

Like you, I will be using commecially available Blocks and Deadeyes, although they will probably have to be adjusted as the cheaper ones tend to be rectangular blocks with holes in. I dont have a workshop as such, so I will also be using commercially available wood strips. I have 5mm and 2mm ply at home and I can get boxwood of varying thickness locally. Cornwall Model Boats will be my "go to" supplier for the rest.

 

Good luck on your "Big T" and feel free to use or adapt the drawings in my log. In case I didn't mention it, they are on A0 size paper.

 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

After all this time, I have started cutting out the false keel and bulkheads for Thermopylae. 

This is courtesy of my new addition to my tool box and my temporary workshop in the back garden.

It is second hand and the sander attachment was missing but it does cut 3.5mm ply quite nicely.

I did have to get the replacement 4" blades from ebay-usa.

[My Fathers Son]

Having taken a look at the first few Bulkheads I am a bit concerned that the Lower Deck, whose main purpose is to create rigidity laterally will be too narrow at the crossings with the Bulkheads. But if I treat it the same as the Main Deck, then there will be insufficient support for that deck. And to cap it all, two of the three masts will be installed at or very near the junction of the lower deck and the bulkhead.

So having put my thinking cap on, I have started adjusting the designs of the bulkheads so that a much wider lower deck can be fitted to stabilize the lateral strength of the hull. I can then make support beams that will install to support the main deck and again for the Fore and Aft upper decks. These will be laminated planks rate=her than plywood as they will take the curve easier.

With the lower deck installed it will look something like this.

I can then make Central Virtical supports and horizontal supports between them that will lock in the location of the Masts and support the Main Deck.

 

There is going to be a lot of trial and error with this project as I have not actually built anything I have drawn in FreeCAD.

 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

I have finished adjusting the Bulkheads for now and assembled it looks like this.

However, I now have to create the locator cut outs to lock in the bulkheads square to the keel. This is a time consuming task and has a tendancy to break drawing so the 3D image will not redraw it self.

1 down, 18 more to go.

[My Fathers Son]

I have now finished working on the Lower Deck.

If you compare this yo earlier images, you will see it is a lot more accurate towards the stern.

The edges of the deck are not curved lines, they are short straight lines. This is because FreeCAD v 20 would not let you cut into a complex curve. V21 will and that is the version I am working in now but it was too late to go back to the start of this deck. This will be corrected at the time the Bulkheads are installed and faired.

 

Next to tackle is the Main Deck as I have changed Bulkheads so I need to do the same to that deck as I have the Lower Deck.

 

Simon

 

[My Fathers Son]

Made a little progress on refining the Bulkheads. The lower deck is complete but as the support for the top deck was limited to the edges, I did not think this would support the main deck. I have constructed the cross beams that sit on the Bulkheads and am desiging supports that run fore and aft so there is suppory for hatchways and Deck. I will also make vertical supports much the same way that the real thing. I will partially plank the lower deck so the covers for the main hatch can be removable 

Based on the work so far, the boat will look something like this.

 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

I used a generic imge of Line drawings for a Captains Gig and constructed virtual model. I used the templates derived from yjese plans and the resultant phisical model has been installed on Cutty Sark.

I faithfully created the frames from section 1A . I took a template from Elevayions 1B to give me the shape of the keel and the curvature of yje Gunwhales. However, creating the Plan from 1C shows an anomile whick can be clearly seen on the model as the lines should intersect the edges of the sections. This is relatively accurate on the stern half of the boat but not so forward of the central section. If i tried this with the vertical profiles from 1B Elevations, you would get a similar result.

 

The drwings are cut and pasted from a single drawing. I have combined the documents to ensure that A, B and C are in the same proportion in each image but the result is always the same. I am happy with the boat built based on these drawings and have saved the formers so I can build a similar boat for Big T but this part of CAD work is a little frustrating.

 

Also, I think I am reaching the limit of the complexity that either FreeCAD or my Laptop can work with.

 

When creating complex documents there are noticable delays between mouse clicks and action on the screen plus when I try to keep my files in a structured way, half the screen blacks out when I am moving files.

 

I needed to edit the Main Deck file as I am not happy that this does not extend out to the side of the vessel, but I cant edit the sketch. Nor will FreeCAD let me delete it and star again without affecting many other parts. I have hidden this document and am nearly finished creating a new one but this just exagerates the problems with a slow system.

 

My laptop is not that old but I suspect that the built in graphics card is reaching the limits of its capabilities.

 

Bah humbug.

 

Simon

[NoelSmith]

When I was a high school technician I used to help students with their laser cut projects.

CAD is great in that you can increase or decrease the scale instantaneously. But in doing so many of the students projects went a bit haywire as they forgot that the material thickness being cut remained the same and their locating slots they drew became either too big or too small when cut.

[My Fathers Son]

Its been a long time since I last posted but I have bit the bullet and have adjusted or cut out the majority of the bulkheads, bar three. So far they appear to be lining up as planned, pictures will follow. The main delay has been the fact that my workshop is no longer my armchair, it is outside and only partially enclosed, so had to wait for warmer weather. 

 

[Keith Black]

 Good to see you post again, Simon. 

[My Fathers Son]

Thanks Keith, well it might be raining but my workshop is dry, well mostly. 

But at least I managed to cut out the main bulkheads. 

The penaltimate one, no 19, is sitting proud but I can adjust that when I get my next spare time. 

These were all cut by hand as that scrollsaw I bought can't cope with 3.6mm ply. 

Still not advanced my rigging on Cutty as my 4 legged fiends are too interested in what I do. 

[Keith Black]

 Simon, the one positive thing about working in the garden is the amount of natural light is so much better to see by, By 4 legged friends I assume cats? If it is cats they are such little dunderheads when it comes to wanting to be a part of whatever is going on. Not an easy task cutting those by hand, hats off to ya. 

[My Fathers Son]

I will strip of the paper templates and I need to locate the places on the keelson for sockets for the masts. I am debating which is better, filing the space between each bulkhead with balsa or can I just add squares of ply. Stem and Stern will have to be balso filled so I have something to support the planking.

 

I intend to add a lower deck the lengh of the boat which should add rigidity and then there will be the main deck which should add strength.

 

The first planking will be 1/32" basswood and I will have a look at Cornwall Model Boats for the top planking. But that is a long way off just yet.

[My Fathers Son]

The ply I used for the bulkheads is fine but but the keelson flexs like an agitated snake. I have looked into the price of balsa block and I just can't believe the price of it. 

So, with my thinking cap on I have decided to create a series of boxes with the upper level being in no more than three pieces. This means an extra level of ply level with the top of the keelson. To support this I am adding strengthener to each bulkhead. They will also increase the thickness of each bulkhead to help keep them at 90 degrees to the keelson. 

And as you can see, my assistant is ready to lend a paw. 

 

Simon

[Mirabell61]

exellent work Simon,

 

She`ll be a beauty, once she`s finished

 

Nils

[My Fathers Son]

So I made an adjustment to the way the keelson is secured to the board, this should keep it straight. The three brackets this replaces were not holding the keelson very securely. 

I can't believe the price of balsa, it's ridiculous. So I will only block the stem and stern, and use accurately cut spacers to maintain the correct position and spacing of the bulkheads. I have been adding additional strips to the bulkheads,  these help to keep the bulkhead square to the keelson and something to glue the spacers to. 

 

Just have to work out the correct position for the knighthead then can work on the stem blocking shape. 

 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

So progress is slow as each bulkhead has to have the stringers attached to add support for the spacers to be inserted. 

 

While I do this, I created the forward section of the false deck but for some reason I haven't been able to accurately set the width. Correcting this by adding extra wood around the edges. Still a little more to do there. 

I tried out a set of strips to check the run and this identified a few errors in drawing and cutting out of the bulkheads. All fixable so no real problem and all the errors will be below the decks and will not see the light of day once the hull is planked. 

 

One thing, in this hobby, when someone asked what tools they need, tell them to buy lots of clamps. And when they think they have enough, go and buy some more, you can never have too many clamps. 

 

Simon

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  When trying to refine the re-scaled (and corrected) bulkheads to the Great Harry, I used springy wire to hold against the sides (fore-to-aft) in many places and sighted down the wire to see the 'ins and outs' of how the wire ran.  Some places required veneer strips to be glued to the edges of the errant bulkheads where the wire run 'dipped' - and fairing by sanding where they pushed out.

  This seems to be an iterative process no matter how careful one is with scaling, drafting and scroll saw cutting.  The extra care done at this stage will pay-off with the first planking being better - with less sanding or filling required prior to second planking.  Having done a hull already that was single planked, I'm a convert to second planking.

[My Fathers Son]

Continuing to build in the spacers between the bulkheads. It takes time to cut and shape the material I am using. 

What it looks like is immaterial as they will never see the light of day once the decks are installed. 

KFC have kindly changed from plastic sports to wooden spoons and forks and this has provided a cost effective source for this purpose. 

As I go, I am checking for straight lines and the fore section is now very stable and nearly complete.

Just the sections aft of bulkhead 14 to complete. 

Simon 

[My Fathers Son]

So I have set up the knighthead and have glued all the bracing in place. Not my best work but it is now straight and stable. 

So I now have to trim everything flush with the bulkheads. Time to check all the plank runs to find where I need to fine tune the shape. 

Also, I can get all the measurements of the below deck, main, for castle and aft decks. 

[My Fathers Son]

Just a couple of images of progress made this week

These are mid-decks, as I already used ply in the centre section, I am not sure that adding another layer of ply is actually necessary, the structure is already stable. 

 

I will concentrate on the stern for the time being as that currently has no horizontal frame to lock it in place. 

[Baker]

I just went through your build log. Nice work.
I also have a cat. And an partially build Thermopylae kit from Sergal. Someone started it, gave up, and that's how it ended up with me
The idea is to start building next winter

 

[Keith Black]

 Coming along nicely, Simon. 

[My Fathers Son]

Had some time today and started checking the profiles with a length of 1mm x 5mm beech. Mostly just a case of removing excess or putting on strips where cut to fine.

Starboard mostly done but port side still to do. Bulkhead 18, 19 and 20 might be a bit of a challenge. 

[My Fathers Son]

Jumping from task to task again but I can't fix no 18 - 20 till I know where the deck will be. So I have created beams a cross 14 to 18 so far so I can line up the camber of the main deck. These are clamped up because I have laminated coffee stirrers to create these beams and they are only dry fitted and clamped into place. You can't have too many clamps. 

There will be supports fore and aft. If I was Chuck, there would be half lap joints on every junction but I am going to cheat, there will be tabs glued to the underside of the junction so I can glue the fore/aft pieces without awkward clamping tasks. 

 

Edited May 5 by My Fathers Son

[My Fathers Son]

Just a bit clearer without all the clamps. 

[My Fathers Son]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:26 AM, Baker said:

I just went through your build log. Nice work.
I also have a cat. And an partially build Thermopylae kit from Sergal. Someone started it, gave up, and that's how it ended up with me
The idea is to start building next winter

 

I did think of looking for a second hand kit but I don't intend to spend too much on this boat, hence my use of materials that I get for free. 

 

I did have to pay £9 for the sheet of ply and I spent £10 on some Bass wood today but that's it so far. 

 

I do have some set aside for decent strip wood from Cornwall model boats but at 27p to the dearer woods at 37p per strip it should not cost more than another £12 to plank the hull. 

 

I hope you create a log for your build, I will tag along when you do. 

 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

Been a busy day today and haven't found too much time for the boat this weekend. 

 

So this is the aft end the dummy deck is locked in and the support cross beams for the main deck are temporary clamped in place. 

The cross beams are lined up and glued in place. I have drilled through the false deck to the bracing below for the Foremast and the Mizzen. The central supports for 14, 15 and 16 are in place. I will add additional bracing for and aft of the mast. This mast will go through the aft deck and deckhouse. As long as I am careful to be accurate, this mast should finish vertical with a rake aft of 84 degrees. 

A different angle view, judging by the list to Starboard of the mizzen mast, there is a little adjustment to do. 

 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

Worked on the cross beams again this evening. They are lining up nicely but I need to work out where the the hatch entrances will be located so I can set up frames for them. 

All three masts will clash with the cross beams in some way so I will be doing the same thing for them. 

Cross beams that might be visible through hatches are in new 3/16 square bass wood but the rest will be laminated coffee stirrers. 

You can see a cardboard stencil I am preparing for the aft section of the main deck. 

 

Simon

[My Fathers Son]

Worked on the deck beams again this evening and was under the impression that I had finished the fore section. I was aware that I would have to design a frame for the central hatch but I had forgotten the forward hatch. It looks like it's between frames 5 & 6, in front of the foremast so I should be OK there. 

 

On the other hand it looks like the central hatch spans 11 & 12 forward of the main mast. I need to take the dimensions for all these and rough out a cunning plan. 

 

Actually getting to construct this is fun but can be quite challenging. 

 

I promise photos tomorrow. 

 

Simon

Edited May 9 by My Fathers Son