Le Soleil Royal by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100

[Bill97]

Thanks my friends. 
 

Don’t know if any new builders looking in are curious of a methodology for tying the ratlines and, very importantly, keeping the shrouds from bowing off their natural line from deadeye to mast top. 
 

This is my method I have used for years that I find works well for me. I am sure other experienced builders have their tried and proven method. This is what works for me. 
 

First I determine my line spacing based on the ship scale. I have read that the ratlines were spaced anywhere from 14 to 16 inches apart, and some instances maybe more. I settled on going with a distance of close to 15”. When I convert that to the 1/100 scale the Soleli Royal is, I get a measurement close to 5mm. Selecting a distance that matches a standard mark on my ruler instead of a fraction makes laying out my card stock a bit easier. 5mm points is simply easier than trying to determine a 4.3mm measurement consecutively as an example. So in this case I laid out my card stock with as many lines spaced 5mm apart to fill the card. I then place the card behind the shrouds and mark the top and bottom of the fore and aft most shroud. I then remove the stock and draw lines between the points. This now forms the natural line for the length of the first and last shroud. Returning the card back behind the shrouds I use clips to lock it in place with the drawn line directly behind the first and last shrouds. I then use push pins at every fifth line to lock the outer shrouds in place so when I start tying the ratlines the outer shrouds will not be pulled out of their natural lay. I then go ahead and tie and glue the ratlines at these positions. Once the glue drys I start filling the space between the already glued ratlines. This also serves to reduce the monotony of tying by providing little goals of finishing a section.  When I am finished I remove the pins, make any small adjustments to keep the ratlines straight with the line behind it followed by a thorough application of diluted white glue to each tie. Then I remove the card stock. Later after the glue has dried I trim the excess off the ends of the tied ratlines. 
 

I hope this helps any builder that has decided to tie their own ratlines. I learned it from a builder on MSW and paying it forward. 

[Bill97]

I am searching for a good picture of this rigging done on a model to see the right spacing and block positions of the ropes and blocks. It is difficult to tell how it is supposed to be by the instructions drawing. Looked for help in Anderson’s book but found no luck. Several different versions on-line. Not sure how it should be. Any help would be appreciated. 

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, have a look at the latest few posts on 72Nova's "Wasa" build. Rigging doesn't get much better than that! You will see realistic block spacing etc, but the exact number of blocks involved in the crowfeet varied over time. See Andersen pg 127; "The sprit topmast backstay was one of the places where the early 17th century rigger really let himself go." I love that sentence. He shows many variations by nationality and year ..... just look at that "backstay" on "Sovereign of the Seas" and thank your lucky stars you're not building a model of her! 😉

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. As always you are the best my friend. Will look to those references. These are a few different versions I found on line. 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bill97

[popeye2sea]

Bill, 

 

The spritsail topmast backstay (the one with the multiple legs) can almost be positioned anywhere that is convenient on the fore stay. It looks like it wants to be with the upper leg just below the single blocks, e42 and e43.

 

The blocks e42  - e45 are for the spritsail and spritsail topsail braces. The lines, after they pass through these blocks, come down and lead through the the blocks e1 - e4 on the bowsprit just forward of the gammoning. The blocks at the forestay should be slightly forward of the blocks at the bowsprit so that the lead of the lines is nearly vertical. The standing part for each brace is seized just above their respective blocks on the forestay.

That should allow you to map out the whole mess.

 

BTW, I have not found anything in the rigging plan that utilizes the two double blocks h2 and h3.  I still do not know what their function is. If anyone knows, please give a shout out with the info.

 

Also, in your previous post the tackles that you mentioned that you were going to "tackle" next are called mast tackles.  I know, really creative naming.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Bill97]

Thanks Henry. Hopefully with your’s and Ian’s help I can get this. As you mentioned the instructions show the upper leg of the spritsail topmast backstay just below blocks e42 and e43.  Does it matter where on the forestay that upper leg is tied to begin its route?  And then of course I would tie e42 and e43 right above that on the forestay. I guess what I am trying to determine is if there is an optimum angle of the rope leading from the spritsail topmast to block e38?  That would then determine where in space blocks e39-e41 would on a horizontal line through the spritsail topmast. Should this line be horizontal or angle down toward the forestay, or does it really matter?  Hopefully following Ian’s recommendation I can get a good representation. 

 

Henry if you would not mind I would very much appreciate a little further clarification of the second part of your second paragraph. The sentence that starts:  The blocks at the forestay should be .... . I got a feeling this is something I need to know an understand. Not sure if it pertains to the spritsail topmast backstay or the braces you refer to. 

 

I also have have not found a use for h2 and h3. Will wait to attach them until we have an answer. 

 

Oh oh and yes very creative naming of the mast tackles. I see they connect to a eyebolt using a hook on the tackle. What were these mast tackles used for?  I assume cargo lifting like the tackle pendants?

 

Always learning from you guys

Bill

[popeye2sea]

Bill,

 

That paragraph actually answers your question about lead for the braces.  If you trace a line vertically, or nearly so,  from the blocks on the bowsprit up to the blocks on the stay, that will give you the approximate location to place the blocks e42 - e45. Following on to the placement of those will give you the placement of the upper leg of the spritsail topmast back stay and also in turn the other legs and also the standing ends of the braces.

 

Regards,

 

Henry

[Bill97]

Thanks Henry. 👍
It would be blocks e4 and e2 on the bowsprit you are referring?  So e42 would be above e2 and e44 would be above e4? 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Bill97

[Hubac's Historian]

It’s not perfectly clear, but here is Frolich’s L’Ambiteaux for reference:

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[Bill97]

Thanks Marc.  If I zoom in I can get a good idea from the photo. 

[popeye2sea]

17 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Thanks Henry. 👍
It would be blocks e4 and e2 on the bowsprit you are referring?  So e42 would be above e2 and e44 would be above e4? 

 

Yes, you got it.

 

Regards,

 

Henry

[Bill97]

Appreciate it my friend. 

[Bill97]

Ok I think I got it. Blocks on forestay positions above the blocks on the bowsprit. Blocks evenly spaced. It is difficult to get the backstay taught enough to remove any slack in the lower zig zag portion without bowing the forestay. I think I got it pretty close. Going to wait until I get a thumbs or recommendations from you guys before I add a touch of glue to the tied knots. 

[popeye2sea]

That looks good.

If I might make a suggestion regarding blocks in general. The lay of the lines can be improved by slightly rounding the sharp edge of the hole where it enters the groove on the block. This will allow the rope to lay in closer to the block and not have that unnatural broad parabola shape.

 

Regards,

Henry

Edited August 1, 2023 by popeye2sea

[Bill97]

Great idea Henry. Weight (diameter) of the thread looks OK?  I used a .4mm and it is currently coated with bees wax which I will rub in. 

[Bill97]

Finished the port side lower foremast ratlines and set up my process to do the starboard side. Also continued fiddling with the spritsail topmast backstay. Henry I used your idea of 

slightly rounding the sharp edge of the hole where it enters groove on the block to eliminate some of the parabola shape of the lines. I have also rerigged the backstay with 3 different weight thread. I am still getting a slight bit of parabola shape if I don’t snug the backstay so much that they forestay starts to bend. Have one more weight and type of black line to try tomorrow. Is a slight somewhat noticeable bend in the forestay as you see in the photo acceptable, or do I keep experimenting? Black sewing thread does OK but it is way to thin. 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Bill97

[popeye2sea]

The rope thickness you used for the last pic looks good. It is difficult getting the stay to remain straight.  I am going to be adding a bob stay to the bowsprit. They were just coming into vogue during this period. That should help offset the upward pull of the fore stay and allow for a bit more tension on the stay to keep it straight.

 

Regards,

Henry

[Bill97]

So Henry you say just leave it alone as is and move on?  I liked your idea of filing out the edge of the block. Will probably use that idea anywhere I don’t have tension on the block to eliminate the parabola shape. Will do some research on the bobstay to see if that might help as well. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Bill97

[Bill97]

Henry the bobstay idea is interesting. I am reading the pages in Anderson’s book about the bobstay. There is a possibility that the Soleli Royal incorporated one in its rigging. If not authentic it is very close to a time period when it would have been. If adding it will help to counter the upward pull on the forestay I am going to include one. Before I installed my bowsprit I reinforced it with a wood dial rod so it does not currently have much flex. I guess a simple test will be to apply downward pressure on the bowsprit which should then tighten the forestay. From there I will see if it tightens the spritsail stay. If it does I will add a bobstay. If not I will wait to see what you do 😊.

 

Bill

[popeye2sea]

18 hours ago, Bill97 said:

So Henry you say just leave it alone as is and move on?  I liked your idea of filing out the edge of the block. Will probably use that idea anywhere I don’t have tension on the block to eliminate the parabola shape. Will do some research on the bobstay to see if that might help as well. 

Yup, looks good to me.  If you manage to put a bit more tension on the stay by holding down the bowsprit with a bobstay it should bring things into line that much nicer. Just be careful to not over tension the stay and pull your masts out of alignment.

 

Don't wait on me to see what I will do.  It will be several more months before I can even think about re-starting my modeling.

 

Regards,

 

Henry

Edited August 1, 2023 by popeye2sea

[Bill97]

Henry I did the Bobstay following Anderson’s guide on page 91, Fig 78, French Bobstay about 1700. As we have said it may or may be accurate but it is right on the edge. I brought the fall of the stay down to an eyebolt and blocks I attached to stem. This does provide a bit more tension on the spritsail stay but you still need to reach a happy medium on the tension a slight bend in the forestay. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Bill97

[popeye2sea]

That looks great.  Good job!

[Bill97]

Thanks Henry. It was your suggestion that had not thought of. 

[Bill97]

I believe I am going to remake the spritsail topmast shrouds. I am thinking the shrouds are of a to small diameter thread. I used a 2.5mm black thread and as a result they are not very visible. Not sure even when I add the ratlines if they will stand out. I think I will move up to a 3.5mm. This will take some work to undo these smaller shrouds, especially at the deadeyes. 

[Bill97]

Couple days since an update. Finished the lower shrouds on the foremast. Lower shrouds on the mizzenmast mast up next. Spent a day or so and a fair amount of non-church words 😬 redoing the shrouds on the spritsail topmast. The initial shrouds were of a thread size that I thought appeared too small once I finished. I decided to remove the shrouds and redo them with a larger thread. Working in reverse proved to be a challenge and detrimental to several of the tiny 2.5mm deadeyes. Ultimately I got it accomplished. Now to add the ratlines to these shrouds as well. 

[Bill97]

Took a brief break from tying ratlines to tinker with something else. Will get back to the ratlines quickly. For a change of pace I decided to experiment with one of my cannon hatch covers. I previously added additional stock material to the inside to give a thicker profile that matched the hatch. I used Baker’s idea if adding two wires on the top hinge edge and drilled two matching holes in the top inside edge of the hatch. With a touch of CA I was able to insert the wires into the top of the hatch. These wires actually serve as a movable hinge. Before gluing in place I attached to eyebolts to the exterior of the hatch for the ropes. I have the hatch more open than would be the case but I want to show the flur-de-lies appliqué on the hatch cover inside. 

[popeye2sea]

That's really nice work.  I'm going to have to tinker with mine now.

 

Regards,

 

Henry

[Ferrus Manus]

Absolutely top-notch ratlines. If i were you, i would've gone absolutely nuts on the sprit-topmast backstay, just because i could. I probably would've taken the easy option with the gunport lids and glued them all the way open. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Ferrus Manus

[Bill97]

Thanks Henry. That method does work pretty good especially if you add a piece of Evergreen on the inside to increase thickness. The out of box thickness allows very little space to drill into the edge for the wires. In retrospect it may have been possible to sandwich two wires between the halves when I glued them. Not sure. It will be a slow steady process with drilled holes per hatch, but like the ratlines, it will be a labor if love!  I like the way the wire allows bending as a hinge would do. 

 

Thanks Ferrus. You really need to give ratlines a try on your next build. I got so frustrated with that stay I was so glad to be finished with it. A real balancing act to prevent much bend in the forestay even after adding the bobstay. 

[allanyed]

Hi Bill,

Ref. photos in post #955..... Is there a reason you used "tarred" line instead of normal running rigging line?  I would think tarred line would gum up the sheaves in the blocks if used on a real ship.   I cannot find any information so far where tarred line was run through blocks.  Maybe someone can shed some light on this based on sources contemporary to the 17th through 19th centuries.

Allan