Varnish the bare wood or Seal and Varnish?

[mrsamimi]

Hello All,

 

I am a new member, what a great website and community, happy to be a part of it now, I am working on my first model ship, Occre Santisima Trinidad, The hull planks are Sapelli, they have a very nice natural look to them, almost same as the photo (just an example I found on internet, this is not my build, it is too good to be be my build!  ) I am sharing and I don't want to paint it, just want to varnish it Matte to show the natural wood but also protect it.

 

My question is, when it is completed, Are you supposed to use any wood sealer and then Varnish or just couple coats of Varnish does the sealing and protecting? 

 

Also, I desperately need recommendations on Varnish and Wood sealers, I was looking on Amazon US and there are so many options but need some specific recommendations!

 

Thank you all.

[RossR]

I asked the same questions awhile ago and there are a ton of great responses on the forum linked below. 

 

Polyurethane vs Lacquer vs Shellac - Painting, finishing and weathering products and techniques - Model Ship World™

 

 Shellac and polyurethane both have their supporters, not very many use lacquer.  I have used polyurethane with mixed results but most people who use it have no issues.  I have been mixing my own shellac using flakes and am very happy with the results. 

 

Good luck.  

 

 

[mrsamimi]

Thank you very much, you use Shellac on wood sealer or it acts as wood sealer itself? 

 

My other question on Shellac is, is it Matte finish or gloss?

Edited January 19, 2023 by mrsamimi

[Jaager]

As a literalist,  a sealer is used on open pore wood species to fill the pores to produce a smooth finish - on furniture.

For a ship model, it is to do a self favor if open pore wood species are avoided altogether for components that are not hidden.

 

Shellac is an excellent primer as well as a finish.

The first coat - the primer coat - should be diluted 1:1 with shellac thinner.

 

Shellac can produce a deep gloss finish if a serious number of thin coats are applied.  We do not usually want that.

A couple of finish coats is probably enough.

A fine abrasive - like a Scotch Brite pad can dull the sheen.  If it is too scratched, just apply another layer of shellac.

It is easy enough to do and pieces of old worn out T-shirts are free.  

[mrsamimi]

@Jaager Thanks a lot, this is great information, I am building Santisima Occre so I think the hull planks are Mapelli strips, I am not that advanced to know if the wood specie has open pores or not, But learning here, I can literally use Shellac on Bare wood as sealer and finish and I really like it.

 

I know you can use Polyurethane also for sealer and finish altogether, But I think Shellac is easier to use, I can be very wrong though!

[Roger Pellett]

The great Naval Architect Nathaniel Herreshoff designed all of his yachts using half models that he carved. These half models were finished with shellac.  Today they are 100-130 years old.  They are now displayed on the wall of Herreshoff’s reconstructed office at the Herreshoff museum in Bristol, RI.  Attendees at the 2019 NRG Conference were fortunate to be admitted to this usually closed room to see these models close up.  The shellac finish has held up well.

 

Roger

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I'll also agree with shellac - one of my favorite finishes since shellac has stood the 'test of time', and a very old (meaning 200 year +) shellac finish can be 'freshened' with a single pass of methanol ('shellac thinner) applied with what the French called a 'tampon' - a lint-free cloth twisted around some absorbent material that when moistened with alcohol has the bottom surfaced flattened somewhat so a surface to be treated can be lightly rubbed.  This applicator is also used to apply amber (or clear) shellac to a large surface.  One can use a soft artists brush for smaller areas/items.  The main disadvantage on furniture tops is that if someone puts an alcoholic drink down (where some of the beverage has dribbled over the rim), it will leave a 'ring' on the surface (since the alcohol will dissolve the finish around the rim of the glass).  But this can be repaired and blended with new shellac by someone skilled in the art.  BTW, shellac will 'fill the pores' somewhat of 'open pored/grained wood top prevent dust from settling in over time.  Once grained has been clogged with dust, abrasion is often required to get below the soil - although some finishers have used a contrasting wood powder to enhance pores/grain first, before applying finish.  Also, shellac is compatible to apply over a linseed oil finish mentioned below.

 

  'Traditional' varnish (formulae vary) can 'crackle' over time, or develop cracks/crazing - but still has been used fro a long time - as it will resist the above phenomenon.  But to re-finish varnish generally requires removal by abrasion first.  Polyurethanes are 'modern' and we don't know how they will hold up over time.

 

  Another traditional finish is hand-rubbing (either 'colored' wood or wood that has been stained) with 50-50 boiled linseed oil and turpentine.  This will darken and enhance the initial coloration.  Always experiment on trial pieces of your wood first.  Minwax stains for coloration (often applied after a light application of Minwax 'conditioner') are compatible with an over application of either varnish or shellac (after an overnight dry time.  Artist oil colors can be used sparingly to alter Minwax tints to 'match' existing finishes.

[Jaager]

Now that Johnny has mentioned color:

 

Lee Valley can provide flakes in 1/4 lb bags for less than $12.00  in three tints

 

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/supplies/finishing/finishes/76311-shellacs?item=56Z4028

 

light yellow and amber both come from Zinsser in small tins that are in solution.  This is probably the more convenient option.

 

Should you wish to reversibly darken the bottom,  using the dark amber (garnet?) flakes may provide a richer looking option.

An advantage is that should you decide that it is too dark, it can be made to go away using an alcohol soaked rag.

 

1 hour ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

The main disadvantage on furniture tops is that if someone puts an alcoholic drink down (where some of the beverage has dribbled over the rim), it will leave a 'ring' on the surface

Actually, it is water that leaves a white ring.  Condensation outside a cold glass of anything will do it.  Shellac is probably not the best choice for furniture that can have stuff sitting on it.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Jaager

[Roger Pellett]

Shine  on finished wood can be reduced by rubbing it with rotten stone.  This is sold as a fine powder.  A lint free rag is first dipped in linseed oil.  The rag is then dipped in the rotten stone.

 

Roger

[Bob Cleek]

28 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

A lint free rag is first dipped in linseed oil.  The rag is then dipped in the rotten stone.

The rag can be dipped in water and it works just as well without the mess of cleaning up the sticky linseed oil and rottenstone and/or pumice left after hand rubbing. I never use anything but water when hand rubbing finishes.

[Roger Pellett]

Can water be used with a shellac finish ?

[mtaylor]

Welcome to MSW, mrsamimi.  I would like to suggest you go to the New Members area and introduce yourself.   And open a build in the Kit Area as it's the best way to meet others and also great way to get help when you need it.

[wefalck]

Standing water leaves white spots on shellac finishes - as most owners of antique furniture know ... However, dampening a tampon to pick up rotten stone or pumice (which is what is used in traditional shellac finishes) does not do any harm.

 

Alternatively, one can use very fine steel-wool (0000), but has to take care to remove any 'swarf', as it may rust with time. This results in an almost matt finish that then can be polished with a dry cotton tampon to a nice satin sheen, if required.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  They're right about 'standing' water, which urethanes can take better - which is why wood table tops at restaurants and bars are often urethaned.  'Forgot to mention that while shellac flakes have an indefinite shelf life before mixing with alcohol, MIXED shellac (sealed) can go bad after a couple of years ... something to do with the slow production of esters in 'side-reactions' - which can be slowed down by refrigerating the sealed contained of mixed shellac.  Commercially prepared cans of shellac often have a date stamped somewhere on the can, so avoid buying one that is 3 years or older ... look for a 'fresh one'.