Young America 1853 by EdT - FINISHED - extreme clipper

[EdT]

Randy,

After center marking, I would clamp it down against a fence to keep it from spinning, then drill with the press or by hand if necessary.  Holding it down is important. 

A spinning strip can be dangerous to your fingers.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Thanks, Ed. I was really looking for the best type of drill bit. The first I tried broke. I tried a carbide bur and that did not work well either. Is there a key to the material the bit is made of (or did I just use an old bit)?

[EdT]

Randy,

 

I just use ordinary high speed steel drill bits.  I believe the size of the holes is about 1/8"?  Should be able to drill through most metals with that, certainly brass.  Bits should be sharp, not old and dull, of course.  Important to center punch as always.  Let the drill do the work and do not use too much pressure.  Medium speed.  Should work without problem.

 

Ed

[EdT]

Hello everyone,

Maury S recently referred me to a site featuring photos from San Francisco history and this previously unknown - at least to me - picture of Young America was in the collection.  Although the built up and rounded stern was something new to me, the rest of the picture leaves no doubt that this is indeed Young America - late in her career for sure.

 

 

The rounded stern modification suggests to me that the entire poop deck was raised, including the helm, perhaps to increase head room in the cabins below, or to raise the cabin deck level to the height of the main deck - note portholes.  More stowage capacity?  The original cabin deck was a "mezzanine" between the main and lower decks.  Very curious.

 

Ed

 

 

 

[Tony Hunt]

Strange, I've always associated that quarter-round poop with iron ships. Are you sure it's the same YOUNG AMERICA?

[EdT]

Now I am not so certain, Tony.  On closer inspection and comparison with the drawings,  the lower rail along the side appears very low.  Also, the main and fore shrouds seem to be anchored inside the hull.  That, along with the rounded poop - which could have been added - raises questions.  Otherwise she seems a dead-ringer.  I wish the picture of the stern below the poop were clearer.

 

Ed

[AdamA]

Ed,

Someone on Reddit's "modelships" sub suggested folks should come read this build log and here i sit 3 weeks later having finished it. Bravo and huzzah. 

Adam

[EdT]

A feat of endurance no doubt, Adam. Thank you for your interest.  I hope you found something useful.

 

Cheers,

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

I'm working on Chapter 8 now. I am thinking about modeling the strapping on the external hull rather than internal. I am also considering placing the deck clamps before the bilge ceiling- it seems it will be helpful to have the lower deck clamp already in place when adding the bilge ceiling. Does this seem to be a reasonable approach or am I setting myself up for failure. Also, do you have a picture at the stern showing the clamps for the lower, middle, main, cabin and poop decks?

 

Good to be back at work,

 

Randy

[EdT]

Hello Randy,

 

History has not decided whether Young America's strapping was internal or external, so one cannot argue for either with any certainty.  I tried and failed to uncover this.  I believe the structural implications are equivalent, but the difference in installation difficulty between the two is not.  Slotting frames to fit the straps inside would have been much easier and faster than scaffolding and doing this on the outside of the frames.  Much of the work would be overhead.  Because time and money was driving the building of these ships, I chose the internal option in the absence of any definitive documentation.  One could argue for either method.

 

For some reason I cannot recollect, I began fitting the bilge ceiling before the entire lower deck clamps were installed, but in no case did I install this ceiling before the ends of the clamps were fixed.  This is necessary so that the ends of the ceiling timbers can be tapered to fit neatly to the underside of the clamps.  Installing the clamps completely before starting the ceiling is not only acceptable, but probably preferred.  Go for it.

 

If you are planning a build log, I would love to follow it. 

 

Ed

[EdT]

Hello again Randy,

 

This seems to be the one photo I have of the clamps at the stern.  Keep in mind that the clamps will be severely dubbed off level on the tops to provide a flat horizontal surface on which to bed the deck framing.  This was done later, after this photo was taken and before the beams were fitted.  It is important when fitting these clamps that the height of the clamps as shown on the drawings sets the clamp height at the frames.  The inner upper corner will be dubbed off.  Note that the stern deadwood is not high enough above the cutting down line to allow the clamps to be fayed into it, so the clamp ends are just squared off.  The second picture shows this area after the deck hook and some of the lower deck framing was fitted.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ed

 

 

 

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Thank you for all our input. You have been very generous with your advice and have saved me a lot of time an aggravation. I would gladly share my log with you but I have never kept one. I'm afraid the amount of time spent on these projects compared against the end result would only be depressing. Also, I think I spend infinitely more time reading/planning than executing, and am not sure how to document that. I'd be happy to upload any pictures or provide other info if you'd like. It would be good to have an expert set of eyes to keep me on track from time to time.

 

Randy

[EdT]

You are welcome, Randy.  Glad if I can help.  I do know the effort involved to keep up an informative build log - almost as much time as spent on the model, especially when you consider photography.  I probably went overboard posting pictures - around a dozen a week for a few years - and taking them for both the blog and the books - 200 to 300 per month four several years.  It is a lot of work - to say nothing of constantly tripping over the tripod in the workspace.  Again, good luck with your project.

 

Ed

[rwiederrich]

On 10/5/2020 at 5:02 AM, EdT said:

Hello everyone,

Maury S recently referred me to a site featuring photos from San Francisco history and this previously unknown - at least to me - picture of Young America was in the collection.  Although the built up and rounded stern was something new to me, the rest of the picture leaves no doubt that this is indeed Young America - late in her career for sure.

 

 

The rounded stern modification suggests to me that the entire poop deck was raised, including the helm, perhaps to increase head room in the cabins below, or to raise the cabin deck level to the height of the main deck - note portholes.  More stowage capacity?  The original cabin deck was a "mezzanine" between the main and lower decks.  Very curious.

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

Well I completely disagree.  This vessel is not the Young America.  This vessel has only 5 yards on her for and main...the YA had 6.  this vessel definitely has the shrouds and deadeyes originating from on or within the bulwark (a typically British method for her composite ships).  The stern ornamentation location is incorrectly located...not to mention the blatant poop rounded exterior...which is very much a British clipper design.  Lets not forget the chain plates and channels which are NOT exterior or below the planksheer.  These items alone would require significant hull and rigging modifications.  Note the existence of a fifth shroud on the mizzen.  If Ed did his do diligence,(And I know he did),  he would have never made this mistake on his model.

 

And I find it hard to believe she would have been modified to mimic a British clipper.

 

No Monkey gaff and the gentleman in the for ground appears to be  wearing a Bowler hat......come on....(Had to throw that in there).

I can see far too many inconsistencies for me to be comfortable saying this vessel is the YA.

 

Personally I think this old image was incorrectly identified by an uniformed bystander.

 

Rob

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

As I am working on the bilge ceiling, I've noticed it does not extend all the way aft. I think I understand the concept of the bilge ceiling, but I am not sure why it doesn't run the entire length. Does the deadwood at the stern serve the same function and carrying things all the way back only needlessly add to the weight? (Or have I goofed somewhere on my model?)

 

Randy

 

 

[EdT]

Randy, I do not understand your question.  Can you give me a reference - photo or drawing - that shows this not extending the full length?  Are you looking at where it stops for the view port openings? 

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

If you look at the first photo you sent me on this page: it shows the aft deck clamps, bilge ceiling and deck planks. You can see the bilge ceiling stops at roughly the aft-end of the view opening- then there is planking the rest of the way back. (This is roughly where my BC also stops, finishing into the lower deck clamp but does not seem to extend to the last few frames at the stern.) Your photo (post #3505) nicely shows the heigh difference between the bilge ceiling and the planking. Am I making sense?

 

Randy

[EdT]

Ah!  Now I understand your question.  It is a good one.  I did have to go back and reconstruct the reasoning I used in the design of the model.  I should preface my answer by saying that not much is known about many of these structural details for any specific ship.  If you refer to the cross-sections in Crothers book on clipper ship construction, you will see that a variety of methods were used to reinforce these long hulls against hogging.  I based the Young America model design on the Crothers cross-section for YA which was based on better information available for Challenge, Webb's preceding design. 

 

Webb's design did not employ large section bilge keelsons used by some builders, but relied on bands of thick members (bilge ceiling) running from the underside of the lower deck clamps down to below the line of the floor timbers.  These 8" square(?) timbers were scarfed and bolted to the frames and to each other.   If you compare the midship frame drawing with the midship cross-section (both included on the cd) you will see that at midship the heavy band of bilge ceiling begins about 5 strakes below the line of the floor timbers.  The strakes of these ceiling members then parallel the line of floor timber ends over the length of the ship, tapering down to end where the fore and aft tops of floor timbers intersect the lower deck clamps.  Thus, the bilge ceiling does not extend all the way to either the deadwood aft or the stem.

 

By running the bilge strakes on a different line (actually a hull diagonal) from the deck clamps, a sort of truss structure was created that would significantly stiffen the hull.  This would provide increased strength over a design where all the planks ran parallel.  While the extent of heavy bilge ceiling could be increased to take it all the way to the ends of the hull, this would involve more strakes of heavy timber below the floor heads - an expensive proposition offering small benefit at the ends of the ship where the hogging effect would be less and where the deadwood and stem structure provided their own stiffness.

 

In summary, the strakes of bilge ceiling run parallel to the floor heads with the lower edge of the band five strakes below those heads.  This interpretation may or may not be correct - who knows - but that was the model design basis.

 

I attach the referenced frame and cross-section for those who may not have the book.

 

Thanks for the question.

 

Ed

Midship a.pdf Cross-Section at Midship.pdf

[Randy Todd]

Ed. That seems perfectly reasonable (and also reassuring that I was missing something in executing your instructions). Very interesting read and thanks again for your feedback. Randy

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Is the limber channel left open? Some figures in the book show a covering (like figures 10-23 and 10-24) but nothing appears on the List of Dimensions for the hold. I must admit, I'm not used to seeing the limber channel exposed, but I'm not sure that accounts for much.

 

If something other than the mast steps and base for the water tank covers the limber channel, could you provide the dimensions (and wood type, though I'm sure it must be castello).

 

Thanks, 

 

Randy

[EdT]

The first thing to recognize, Randy - you may realize this already - is that the limber channel on this ship is actually outside of the frames, see p 189.  The first strake inboard, next to the keelson is shown wider than the other common planking as may be seen in Fig 8-38.  This was an arbitrary sizing on my part, perhaps consistent with what I had seen on some other drawings - can't remember.  I would assume this last space would be covered with lengths of common plank of wider width. You can use your judgement on this.  I believe the common method of clearing clogged channels was to have a chain in the channel - not shown on model - that could be used to clear debris and allow water to flow into the well.  Keep in mind also, that bilge pumps used on this ship were of the suction type, allowing the pipes to be located right down on the outer planking bilge strake - unlike earlier chain pumps that could only reach the tops of the frames and therefore left standing water between the frames if no between frame fillers were used.  In any event, most of this construction will not be visible on the finished model.

 

Hope this answers your question.

 

Ed 

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Yes- that helps. Thank you. I used the term 'limber channel' to simplify things as this is the term used on the List of Dimensions. I saw how you cut the actual limber channel later in the book. As you recommended, I left a 10" space by the keelson. I'll add a plank of that dimension into the space. Once I've completed the hold, I plan to take the structure off the shipway and fair the outside of the hull. I think the framing is now strong enough to do so.

 

I found my packet of the Volume 1 drawings is missing #8 (which I am assuming is the plans for the lower deck as I can't find it anywhere else). I put in an email to Sea Watch books to get a replacement but haven't heard back yet. I hope it will not take too long as I am trying to get the lumber ready.

 

Happy New Year!

 

Randy

[EdT]

I now recall that I only partially covers the space between the hold common plank and the keelson.  There is no hard copy of drawing 8.  This is the base plan and was provided as a pdf on the CD so replacement copies could be printed when the print glued to the board got soiled.  Common mistake.  Check your CD.  You must have a copy of this on your board.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

I can't seem to find the lower deck plans drawing. I believe the base plan is drawing 2B. I have hard copies of the middle and upper decks and no hard copy of drawing 2 (for which I have a pdf) and drawing 8 (which I assumed was for the lower deck). It makes sense that the lower deck plans would come as a hard copy like the other two decks. I can not find a pdf for the lower deck drawing either. While I still have work to do before starting the lower deck, I'd like to use the lower deck drawing to estimate the lumber that I will need.

 

With respect to my earlier question, there is a figure in Crothers' book (p.111) that directly addresses my query. 

[Randy Todd]

Interesting- I just realized that Drawing 6 is split: the upper part of the drawing is the middle deck and the lower part, the lower deck. Now I can plan out the lumber.

 

I am still missing Drawing 8- can you tell me what is supposed to be there?

[EdT]

Randy, drawing 8, actually 8b, is the baseboard plan for the 1:96 model.  You do not need this for 1:72.  Attached is the full list of provided drawings for each scale, excluding the many letter-sized sheets on each CD.  Note that the baseboard plans are pdfs and not provided as printed drawings.  Also, drawing 11, included with Volume II is 1:96 scale which should be adequate to use for both scales for the Volume II work. Same goes for Drawing 12, the belaying plan.  Because no measurements need be taken from 11 or 12, no 1:72 versions were included.  Hope this helps.

 

Ed

 

Appendix 2 - Drawing List.pdf

[Randy Todd]

Ah. That makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[Sailor1234567890]

Ed,

Are you intending on a new project for us to follow? I'm sure I speak for the assembled masses when I say we'd love to see what you've got in store for us next.

Cheers,
Daniel

[EdT]

Nothing on the burner right now, Daniel.  Very busy with two virtual learners here every day.

 

Ed

[Sailor1234567890]

Ah, yes. My little learner is able to attend his daycare. Glad I don't have a school aged little to guide through ZOOM calls and other online learning. Good luck with them and we'll wait for you to have time to work on something. It's worth the wait.