USS Constitution by Der Alte Rentner - Model Shipways - 1/76

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 9/24/2023 at 1:51 PM, JSGerson said:

I looked at Rich's log and his cathead sculpture looks a little oversized. The sculpture edges should be flush to the cathead. Therefore, the 1:87 Constructo sculpture might be just the right size for the larger scale 1:76.8 MS kit. Luckily, only a knowledgeable viewer would be aware that the Rich's and my sculptures are not the same as the actual ship. When you think about it, I'm really surprise the MS kit does not supply a precast sculpture.

 

Jon

The lions heads that came with the constructo kit will indeed be used.  As might the dummy cannons. The quality of the MS is not great - too much filing involved to get these looking clean, or to get the inside end round. Granted, I'll have to make plugs for the backs, but much less work in that than countless hours with a file.  

 

Thanks again.

[Der Alte Rentner]

11 hours ago, helmarsowick said:

I may have a solution for cathead decor. Contact me at hsowick@gmail.com and I'll provide details.

Thanks, but not necessary.  I'm using the ones that came with the Constructo kit.

[Der Alte Rentner]

Last post until I get back to the shipyard in mid October. 

I forgot to upload the process I used to plank around the lower gun ports.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty much done on the Starboard planking around the lower gunports. .

 

As mentioned previously, I'm going to do the port side differently.  Stay tuned.  I'm back in the shipyard.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
Cleaned up photos and added text

[mtbediz]

Your build is progressing very nicely. I am following with a big interest.

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:57 PM, mtbediz said:

Your build is progressing very nicely. I am following with a big interest.

Thanks.  Coming from you, I take that as a complement.  I'm watching your build with equal interest.  

[Der Alte Rentner]

I'm starting the port side gun ports now, and as mentioned several times, am taking a new approach.

I'm going to make filler blocks and drill a pair of holes to fit the false cannons. For the first hole I'll use a 1/4" forstner bit to provide space for the width of the cannon.  The second hole will be the same diameter as the holes in the false cannon backs provided with the kit.

 

The filler blocks will be cover the full width between bulkheads.  The outer and inner edges must be parallel to facilitate drilling the holes.  

 

First I took some spare basswood and made some 3/4 x 1/2" strips.  These will be cut to fit between the bulkheads.  To keep the outer and inner edges of the blocks parallel, I needed to angle the ends to accommodate the differing angles at the edge of the bulkhead.   I measured the angle both on the plans and on the hull.  Turns out they were the same.  Once the first angle cut was made, I measured the distance between bulkheads to mark the cutting point for the other end of the block.  I did the "rough" cuts on the bandsaw using a miter gauge.  Fine tuning was done with a disk sander. 

 

Once the block was the correct width and shape to fit in between the bulkheads, I had to taper the top edge to be parallel with the bottom of the outer plank sheer.  Once that was done, I needed to find the spot on the block where the cannon center should be.  I marked the center point and drilled the 1/4' diameter hole deep enough to match the depth of the stop of the false cannon backs on the starboard side.  After that hole was drilled, I went in for a second pass with the smaller drill.  

 

When  it comes time to plank the port side around the gun ports, I'll insert a cannon, place the gunport covers where around it and plank to the cover.

 

At this point, I've only done the one between bulkhead R and Q.  Sadly, I did that twice.  Worse, I did it correctly the first time and moved the hole a smidge to far forward the second time.  The mistake is obvious in the photos below.  I figure no one will notice that the sternmost cannon on the port side will be a couple of mm forward of its mate on the starboard side.  

 

I think this will take less time and provide a better fit than the method (Bob Hunt Practicum) that I used on the starboard side.  It will certainly give me more accurate placement for the cannons and provide plenty of gluing surface for the gunport covers, which will be closed around the cannons.  If I were to keep the covers open, I'd be repeating the process on used on the starboard side. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rough cut using the miter gauge and the bandsaw

 

 

 

Close the gap using the same angle at the disc sander.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The distance from the bottom of the outboard plank sheer to the center of the 

cannon hole is 3/4".  I had the 13/32" spacer from doing the starboard side and 

used it to get the filler block parallel to the plank sheer.  (add the two fractions

to get to the 3/4" distance.

 

 

 

 

 

The mistake I made was forgetting that the 1/32" had to be subtracted from the bulkhead to

the vertical center mark.  In the plans the gunport opening needed 1/32" of bulkhead surface 

to allow for gluing.   Not necessary for filler blocks...  But to locate the cannons precisely opposite their

starboard counterparts, I need to factor that into my calculations.

 

again, this one cannon will be a smidge too far forward compared to its counterpart on the starboard side,

but I'm not going to mess with doing this one a third time. 

 

One nice benefit of cutting the blocks this way is that the fairing will be minimal..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
correct errors in photo placement, and typos

[Der Alte Rentner]

Celebrated the anniversary of my Natal Day at the ship yard today.  

 

1.  Set up my new tool with zero clearance insert.  Haven't needed it yet on Conny, but have set it up to deal with the finishing touches on one of the projects that sidelined me since October.  It may not be a Byrnes, but this is pretty sweet.  (Proxxon)

 

2. Got the port side gunport filler blocks installed and began planking starting at the stern.  A couple of concerted effort days at the ship yard, and I'll have the port side planked down to the level I left off at on the starboard side.  Then the fun really begins.  

 

See you in about a week.

 

note the Micro Mark unit in the upper left corner.  Completely useless...

 

 

(one of the projects that had me sidelined.  The Proxxon saw made quick work of netting exact 2" square game tiles.)

Edited December 11, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
added text and photo

[GGibson]

1 hour ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

It may not be a Byrnes, but this is pretty sweet.  (Proxxon)

 

 Great work on your Constitution, sir!  I've been waiting to see if Byrnes Model Machines will begin selling their table saw after Jim's passing, but if they do not, I'm thinking the Proxxon might be the next best option.  I've got the Proxxon bench drill press and compound table, and have been super happy with it.

 

Carry on, sir!  Fair winds and following seas....

 

[Der Alte Rentner]

Quick update.  Two strakes of the 1/8" x 3/64" planking to go after enclosing the port side gun ports.

 

I made little plugs (using the Proxxon saw to absolutely nail the 1/2 x 5/8" dimensions), to help facilitate the planking around the gunports. 

 

My method for locating the center holes in the filler blocks proved also to be spot on.  

 

 

As evidenced by dry fitting the gunport covers and cannon.

 

Called it a day with two strakes to go before I switch to the narrower stock for the task of planking to the keel.  The fun will begin in earnest then...

 

Now that I've constructed the gunport frames two different ways, I had to ask myself, Self, which was the better method?  Since I plan to have the covers closed around the cannons, I did find the filler block method to be easier to implement than the Bob Hunt's (or the MSW kit's) method.  Had I not had the disk sander and band saw, which made shaping the blocks to fit easier, the framing method might have had the edge.  But the added gluing surface provided by the filler blocks swings the vote back to the latter.  

 

(Rita, in case you decided to check back in, thanks again for breakfast this morning - and thanks for your continued interest in the build).

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
removed one photo

[Der Alte Rentner]

On 12/7/2023 at 6:19 PM, GGibson said:

Great work on your Constitution, sir!  I've been waiting to see if Byrnes Model Machines will begin selling their table saw after Jim's passing, but if they do not, I'm thinking the Proxxon might be the next best option.  I've got the Proxxon bench drill press and compound table, and have been super happy with it.

 

I didn't need the drill press, but I did invest in two other Proxxon tools.  The lathe and the micro milling machine with compound table.  I haven't used the lathe yet, probably won't need it until it's time to tackle the yard arms, but the milling machine has proved useful already.  Most recently, I used it to find the exact center of the 1/2 x 5/8" plugs I made to position the planking around the gunports.  I'm feeling nostalgic for my days as an apprentice tool and die maker under my uncle's tutelage.  My favorite machine was the Bridgeport milling machine.  Ah, those were the good old days.

 

If Byrnes does start selling their saws again, I might take another look, but the Proxxon saw is pretty darned nice.  Once you figure out how to do the micro adjustments, you can get fantastic accuracy on a cut.  

[Der Alte Rentner]

Not much changed since yesterday, but I did add two more rows of 3/32 x 3/64" planking to take me to the end of Chapter 3.4 in the Hunt Practicum.

 

I was planning to continue planking to the keel, but noticed that Bob shifts attention to building a stand in Chapter 3.5 then moves on to the Spar Deck.  He doesn't return to planking the hull until Chapter 6.   

 

To those of you who've done the Practicum, is there any good reason to postpone planking until Spar Deck is more or less finished?  Seems to me that I can more easily plank with the hull clamped upside down.  If the spar deck is done first, I think I'll have to plank with the hull in the stand.

 

Thoughts?

[JSGerson]

I believe, that for the most part, it's personal preference. He may have believed that delaying planking the rest of the model at this point may avoid unnecessary repairs later on due to the delicate nature the hull copper cladding.

 

Because I've added the gun deck among other details to my model, I've bounced around his instructions and even substituted other builder's methods I've read about in their logs. Mr. Hunt does a great job for some details, and skips lightly over others. If you follow him religiously, you will end up with a decent model, but you may wish you had done something differently looking at other builds. I use his practicum as a guide, and as a bible. There is no real right or wrong method, just what works for you.

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

2 hours ago, JSGerson said:

He may have believed that delaying planking the rest of the model at this point may avoid unnecessary repairs later on due to the delicate nature the hull copper cladding.

Hmmm,  I hadn't thought of that.  

 

Since I'm still hoping to keep a natural wood finish, I have been considering skipping the cladding too.  Apart from Hipexec, I may be in the extreme minority on this.   Decision on painting will be postponed until I finish planking the hull.  I'm still perusing chapters 4 and 6 in the Practicum, but think it'll be easier to turn the hull over to do the planking and to that end, having exposed bulkheads for my clamps would be beneficial.  Gee, have I made my decision? 

 

Thanks Jon

 

Peter    

[Geoff Matson]

Like Jon, I too have used Bob's Practicum as a guide. However, I could not have gotten as far as I have without it. During my build, my modeling skills have increased. The Constitution is quite an undertaking and make sure you have the time and patience to complete the model. I have often wondered how many Conny's were started and never finished. If I had to do it allover I might have skipped the rigging and made it an Admiralty Style model instead. You are doing a great job and I look forward to your progress

[woodartist]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:27 PM, Der Alte Rentner said:

Quick update.  Two strakes of the 1/8" x 3/64" planking to go after enclosing the port side gun ports.

 

I made little plugs (using the Proxxon saw to absolutely nail the 1/2 x 5/8" dimensions), to help facilitate the planking around the gunports. 

 

My method for locating the center holes in the filler blocks proved also to be spot on.  

 

 

As evidenced by dry fitting the gunport covers and cannon.

 

Called it a day with two strakes to go before I switch to the narrower stock for the task of planking to the keel.  The fun will begin in earnest then...

 

Now that I've constructed the gunport frames two different ways, I had to ask myself, Self, which was the better method?  Since I plan to have the covers closed around the cannons, I did find the filler block method to be easier to implement than the Bob Hunt's (or the MSW kit's) method.  Had I not had the disk sander and band saw, which made shaping the blocks to fit easier, the framing method might have had the edge.  But the added gluing surface provided by the filler blocks swings the vote back to the latter.  

 

(Rita, in case you decided to check back in, thanks again for breakfast this morning - and thanks for your continued interest in the build).

 

 

 

I took your little plugs and replicated them, I just started the process of framing the gun ports. So far it is working perfectly.

[woodartist]

22 hours ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Hmmm,  I hadn't thought of that.  

 

Since I'm still hoping to keep a natural wood finish, I have been considering skipping the cladding too.  Apart from Hipexec, I may be in the extreme minority on this.   Decision on painting will be postponed until I finish planking the hull.  I'm still perusing chapters 4 and 6 in the Practicum, but think it'll be easier to turn the hull over to do the planking and to that end, having exposed bulkheads for my clamps would be beneficial.  Gee, have I made my decision? 

 

Thanks Jon

 

Peter    

I have read thru Chapters 4-5 in the Hunt Practicum and do not see any reason that delaying those tasks until the hull planking is completed would cause any issues. I agree that having the ability to turn the hull over to do the planking would make it easier. Particularly in my case because I only have use of one hand and having a stable surface to plank is critical.

[mtbediz]

On 12/13/2023 at 4:05 AM, Der Alte Rentner said:

Not much changed since yesterday, but I did add two more rows of 3/32 x 3/64" planking to take me to the end of Chapter 3.4 in the Hunt Practicum.

 

I was planning to continue planking to the keel, but noticed that Bob shifts attention to building a stand in Chapter 3.5 then moves on to the Spar Deck.  He doesn't return to planking the hull until Chapter 6.   

 

To those of you who've done the Practicum, is there any good reason to postpone planking until Spar Deck is more or less finished?  Seems to me that I can more easily plank with the hull clamped upside down.  If the spar deck is done first, I think I'll have to plank with the hull in the stand.

 

Thoughts?

It is certainly much easier to do the hull planking with the ship upside down. In all my models, I do not start doing the deck details until the hull planking and copper plating (if necessary) are completed. I even recommend doing the rudder and hinges while the ship is still in an upside down position. It will be much easier.

Edited December 15, 2023 by mtbediz

[Der Alte Rentner]

10 hours ago, mtbediz said:

It is certainly much easier to do the hull planking with the ship upside down. In all my models, I do not start doing the deck details until the hull planking and copper plating (if necessary) are completed. I even recommend doing the rudder and hinges while the ship is still in an upside down position. It will be much easier.

My thoughts exactly.  Glad to have them confirmed by such an accomplished builder.  Bottom's Up!

[Der Alte Rentner]

20 hours ago, woodartist said:

I took your little plugs and replicated them, I just started the process of framing the gun ports. So far it is working perfectly.

 

Glad they're working out for you.  

[Der Alte Rentner]

20 hours ago, woodartist said:

Particularly in my case because I only have use of one hand and having a stable surface to plank is critical.

 

I'm only missing the tip of an index finger, and it's been challenging at times to deal with the fine-motor-skill work.  I can't imagine doing it with one hand. 

 Simply amazing.  

[Der Alte Rentner]

2023 Dec 14.  Planked the part of the stern transom.

After much deliberation, I have decided to move to Chapter 6 in the Practicum and continue planking to the keel. Chapter 4 diverts to the spar deck details, after planking a portion of the stern transom (Chapter 4.1). I’d rather work with the hull upside down when I start planking and from what I’ve seen in the Practicum, this is slightly problematic if I carry on with instruction in Chapters 4 and 5.
Now that I’ve had the benefit of a couple of days intense study of the process laid out in Chapter 4.1 and continuing with Chapter 6, I’m more than a little miffed at Bob Hunt. In Chapter 4.1 Bob observes that “..with the transom extensions ending where they do, this alignment is off and I had to compensate for it by adding a small piece of 3/32” wood to the bottom of the transom extensions to make them slightly longer”. Then in Chapter 6.1.1 “Planking the Counter”, Bob addresses the counter extension, which attaches to the transom extension. For Pete’s sake, why wasn’t this counter extension added to the transom extension when that was installed? Furthermore, one could ask, why wasn’t the laser-cut piece for the transom extension made to include this extra material. To futz with this crap now is a royal pain and could have easily been avoided. Sigh…

 

This photo could come after the diagram, but it illustrates the filler material I just added per Hunt Practicum instructions in chapter 4.1  Adding that counter extension will be an adventure now...

 

 

 

Okay, enough carping, I’ll deal with it later…

So, in keeping with my switch to filler blocks vs. gunport framing, I added three blocks where the stern gunports should go. In retrospect, I should have made these long enough to touch the counter, but it is what it is.

 

 

I then made blanks of the gunports so that I could position the plank below the ports – see photos below.
Since I will keep these doors closed, and since there won’t even be a gun sticking out of the port, I opted to dress up the blanks to look like the closed port cover. I made good use of my Proxxon micro mill to carve the horizontal center line simulating where the upper and lower cover meet. Then I positioned the mill to put center marks where the two holes in the upper cover are supposed to be. Finally, I drilled 3/32” holes.

 

 

Always looking for a way to use the Proxxon micro mill..

 

 

 

Looking good.  (The port covers are not glued in, but man they aren't coming out easily either.  May not be a problem?  I think I'd like them out when adding hinges later.  A problem for another time.)

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
removed a couple of lines of text. (mostly expletives - K I D D I N G)

[GGibson]

In all due respect to Bob Hunt's work on several ship models and his work in sharing his experiences with other modelers through his practicums, I have his Bluenose practicum and have referred to it minimally in my progression simply because I found early on that he was skipping corners in spots only to later on request a mea culpa on a previous error, or skipping parts that others have felt to be critical in the ship build.

 

With that said, I have relied on his Bluenose practicum advice sparingly and have more used the MSW build logs of other modelers for their advice and progression steps in my Bluenose build.  I am one, though, admittedly, that will take as much advice as I can find out there, so I have "advance purchased" Bob Hunt's Constitution practicum for whenever I do purchase the Constitution kit.  I will. though, note and try to remember your concerns if I ever get this classic ship in my own shipyard.

 

Regarding our discussion on Jon Gerson's build log about Modeler12's Constitution build log, I recall somewhere early on in his log he mentions that he had a website that he was also documenting his Constitution build, but I could never find that website.  Was hoping he might have more detailed info on that website thread than he had in his MSW thread, although it was quite detailed in and of itself! 

 

Carry on, sir!  Enjoying watching your Conny build! 👍🏆

[JSGerson]

Quote

Regarding our discussion on Jon Gerson's build log about Modeler12's Constitution build log, I recall somewhere early on in his log he mentions that he had a website that he was also documenting his Constitution build, but I could never find that website.  Was hoping he might have more detailed info on that website thread than he had in his MSW thread, although it was quite detailed in and of itself!

Gregg, I'm not certain which build log website you could not find so here are the three sites we have been talking about:

Usedtosail 

xKen

Modeler12 

 

[GGibson]

Hi Jon! Thanks for following up over here on Der Alte's log.  And I apologize if I didn't make myself clearer...  I've seen the three MSW build logs of those 3.  But on Modeler12's log, in his #13 post dated 02/18/2013, he states "For more details of all of this go to my web site shown below and check the section “Hull Construction’." 

 

Except that I could not find reference to any other web site, unless he was simply referring to his MSW cross-section build log.  His use of the phrase "my web site" made me think he had a separate personal website outside of MSW where he was also documenting his Constitution work.  genericDave did that with his Bluenose, having both a MSW build log and his own Suburban Ship Modeler blog.  I have found the blog to be very helpful in my own Bluenose build.

 

I apologize for the confusion and for taking away from either of your own build logs!  As I said, I am following both of yours very closely!  Thanks, guys...

Edited December 17, 2023 by GGibson

[Der Alte Rentner]

23 hours ago, GGibson said:

Carry on, sir!  Enjoying watching your Conny build! 👍🏆

Thank you kindly, sir!  Many hours at the shop today with little to nothing to show for it.  I'll resume after the pulled-out hair grows back.  I suspect there will be wood putty application in the immediate future..

Edited December 17, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner

[GGibson]

18 minutes ago, Der Alte Rentner said:

Many hours at the shop today with little to nothing to show for it.

 

Yeah, I've had a lot of those lately myself! <forehead slap>

[JSGerson]

I've spent many hours researching through my photo library, Google, a multitude of build logs (both finished  & in progress) and yet for some reason, my model doesn't look any different than it did before I started hours ago. Is that considered time spent building the model?

 

Jon

[Der Alte Rentner]

1 hour ago, JSGerson said:

I've spent many hours researching through my photo library, Google, a multitude of build logs (both finished  & in progress) and yet for some reason, my model doesn't look any different than it did before I started hours ago. Is that considered time spent building the model?

 

Jon

 

Ha!  Well said!   

[Der Alte Rentner]

Did my homework..

 

Spun my wheels, and made these parts no less than three times.  (too much whittling, ugh).  

 

 

Installed them and then made a little progress on the planking front.

 

 

 

 

For the foreseeable future, I'll be working upside down...

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Der Alte Rentner
removed superfluous photos

[JSGerson]

Now the fun part begins!🙃