HMS Diana 1794 by newbee - Caldercraft - 1/64

[newbee]

Firstly I would like help with the title for this log as I have bought the model with the hull. at first glance looking almost finnished. How wrong I was. I have taken time out from my Golden Hind build so as to clear my head and look at starting again with a fresh mind and set of eyes. Then, at the Southern model show I saw this.

[newbee]

As you can see there is a lot to be done. I have made a start to figure out when and how to really get stuck into this, though it won't get properly started until I have at least got the hull finnished on my Golden Hind. I was planning on getting back to her this week but, this came up on Saturday and I asked at the bring and buy section to have a look and it was only then that I knew which ship she was. Not quite the 50 gun frigate I attempted to scratch build a few years ago but 38 out of 50 isn't too bad. ( I really wish I had kept what I had built now). The next day I just had to see what work was needed. With hind sight I should have looked much closer but I'm not sure it would have mattered as I pretty much had my heart set on her, after 4 looks from a distance. One thing led to another and I removed the head timbers, They were mounted at the top of the fore deck. I then removed the fittings from the upper deck, and the deck itself, which was held in place by the inner planking which I ended up also having to remove. Although the deck planking didn't look too bad, after brushing off all the dust I realised that each of the strakes were 1mm apart but perfectly done? Much harder to achieve than butting them side by side I think. Anyhow, the fitting were then removed from the gun deck again along with the cannons, They were all glued inboard away from the ports. Some of the gratings need work but others can be refitted once I redo the planking. Luckily whoever started building this kit was methodical and ticked off the parts he had used and the rest are still on the formers. There is a lot of timber and all the odds and ends that will be needed to finnish her off are in the box. The only thing missing seems to be the majority of the rigging thread which I would probably have replaced anyway. One down side is the cannon barrels with the football on the ends. I will need to replace most of these. ay least on the visible ones.   

[newbee]

A lot of the parts fitted were still rough cut and there were a lot of glue blobs and splashes. The beams below the main decks I decided to leave in place as I would cause too much damage removing them. I started getting carried away by starting to sand down both decks but realised I have plenty of time to do this once my current build is done. I have also drilled out the hole for the bowsprit. I only discovered it hadn't been done when I removed the head timbers. These were mounted too high, I suspect, because the cross timbers hadn't been sanded flush to the head timber so it wouldn't fit in the right position.

I have aquired quite a few storage trays over the years so, as I remove the pieces, I can keep them in related compartments until I start the rebuild properly. I have now also removed the quarter galleries and the stern plate with all the windows and fittings. I will need to have a consistant colour for everything, so I will be ordering everything I will need in one go including the admiralty paints, I hope. Once I need another break from the Golden Hind I will begin sanding down the hull. For now I will leave this post as it is, but, will add updates as and when things progress. Meanwhile I really need to get the Golden Hind done.

[Keith_W]

Oh boy. That is a really sad looking ship. To think that someone lavished so much time and love on it, and then it languished in storage until it looks like that. A lot of building mistakes also. Good luck restoring it! 

[chris watton]

I am sure the gunwales that have expanded are made from 'Flexible Beechwood Strip'. I have used this before, but never again. As soon as a little water gets into it, it expands wildly.

 

I don't envy you....

[DaveBaxt]

You definately have your work cut out there.Being a newby myself and currently building the Diana but not as far on as yourself I have found the model dificult enough without correcting someone elses mistakes but can understand the attraction.However it would definately be of interest how you approach this and to see how much is actually repairable but I wish you luck. Dave.

[newbee]

Thank you for your comments. You are right Keith. She is a sad looking ship right now. I'm guessing she ended up on a garage shelf for the last few years. The only thing I know is the kit was bought in 2010. 

Chris, I think you are correct with the use of the flexible beechwood. They are mentioned in the instructions. They are something I haven't encountered before so I really hope there aren't too many of them. I have the instruction manual and the parts list booklet. There are also 6 full size drawings although not quite precise. The deck plans seem a couple of millimeters out. Not really a problem though. 

I have already checked out a few of the build logs which feels like a double edged sword. Although the quality of the builds are amazing and the detailing is something else. They also make me realise my limitations. I am hoping to get her looking good but not to outstanding standards of the experts here.

When I get started in earnest, I will fill in all the low spots in the hull before sanding it down to a smooth finish. Unfortunately I have no idea how well (or badly) the first planking was done so will need to watch out for any thinning. The hull will then be re planked with 0.5mm strips and the wale with either 1.5 or 2mm strips. I am planning to use the copper plating supplied which I have never attempted before.  The stern plate will be planked with 0.5 mm strips to ensure a smooth finish before it's painted. The quarter galleries will have to be remade from scratch. 

[Quimp Slattery]

13 hours ago, chris watton said:

I don't envy you....

Hmm. Nor do I. But assuming the price was reasonable, I strongly believe I’d have bought the thing myself if I had been in your place. 😂 It’s so easy for me to get carried away at shows.

 

I think it will be an interesting project for you to do and for us to read about, so this is definitely one for me to follow. Good luck!

[newbee]

Many thanks for the comments. Il have grown a little in confidence of model making over the last couple of years. I never thought I would think of cutting a false keel up to add extensions until earlier this year. I am now really hoping a little knowledge doesn't prove too dangerous. As for cost I picked this up for 20% of the cheapest new kit of the ship.

 

Something that seems to be approaching my catch phrase is it's only pieces of wood so can always be repaired or replaced. All be it with varying levels of difficulty.

 

One thing I have picked up on is there's no filler blocks at the bow or stern. This means I will need to be extra careful with the sanding here. Even then, as I will be adding an extra layer of planking I do have a plan B but it's really a last resort. The main thing to get rid of is the ridge along and up the keel fore and aft. Once everything is smooth I will check the lay of the planks and then see what I will need to do next. 

[newbee]

I should have mentioned also that the shape of the stern planking below the stern gallery counter and the base of frame 17, stern bulkhead are wrong along with the hull planking beneath. It seems that the hull was changed as the planks behind the qurter  galleries were planked seperately. I will need to remove the black strips as well to see if anything behind them needs work. In the mean time I have started sanding down the starboard stern half of the hull and been able to remove a bulge over the edge of frame 14 which just exposes a patch of the 1st planking.I have used a piece of masking tape to roughly show where the planking should really line up on the false keel. It looks like I could have a major job on my hands with this section.

Edited September 9, 2023 by newbee
typo's and final comments

[Quimp Slattery]

The closer we look, the nastier it gets. 🤮 However, I still have confidence in you. 🙂

[newbee]

I am afraid you're right Jack. Nothing is impossible though. After trying more sanding down I realised that it wasn't working. The only thing I could do now was strip away the planking. I was worried about not doing the right thing so decided only to do the starboard side just in case it was a major mistake. It turns out, I think, it is possible to rectify the issue. If I am correct, the only problem will be the run of the planks will not match what's already been done. This will be covered over by the 0.5mm I was planning to cover the hull with after it was sanded down. If my plan works it means I won't need to spend 60 pounds or more on extra strips of timber. The main problem with the original build was the last few frames were not bevelled enough. I intend to bevel these further and add some extra timber to the stern bulkhead and taper this to a point where the planking will go across the stern. 

[newbee]

Thanks for your faith in me Jack. It may just be paying off but I daren't count my eggs too soon. There is still a fair bit of shaping to do. I will need to go a couple of planks at a time and sand down the frames as I go. The spaces below the decks and between the frames will look awful but at least they are hidden by the planking. The frames from 14 to 17 on both sides are now pretty much ready to start re planking. I have formed a lip roughly along the middle of frame 14 for the 2 X 5 mm strips to fit into. I am really hoping this works. Normally I find that if things are going too smoothly a major problem comes up unexpectedly.

[Quimp Slattery]

39 minutes ago, newbee said:

Thanks for your faith in me Jack.

 

You are welcome. I will encourage you every step of the way (which may be a long one...)

 

39 minutes ago, newbee said:

I have formed a lip roughly along the middle of frame 14 for the 2 X 5 mm strips to fit into. I am really hoping this works.

 

Oooh, creativity!

 

39 minutes ago, newbee said:

 

Normally I find that if things are going too smoothly a major problem comes up unexpectedly.

 

You know, even if your chances of finishing this to standard that will satisfy you are slim, imagine what you are going to learn in the attempt! Even better, think of the things that you are going to have to invent! 

 

Speak not of Major Problems, he is outranked by General Opportunities!

 

 

[newbee]

Thanjs again. As long as I am able to do a decent job on the stern the entire hull will be sanded down to pretty much the 1st planking. This will give me almost a blank canvas to work on. I may even have a go at removing the beams above the gun deck so allow space to redo the deck. Sanding down will be really difficult with beams in place never mind filling the gaps and redoing the deck with 0.5mm strips. I will see how much /little damage occurs when the time comes. 

[dunnock]

That's quite a project you've taken on newbee but you seem to have got it by the scruff of the neck and made some great progress in stripping it back to something that you can build from.

David 

 

[newbee]

Many thanks David. There seems to be a lot of us. Mind you it's a good name. Really happy for your comment especially after the job you've made of yours. I was really happy with my builds of the golden hind and san fran II. But they look nothing like your HMS Diana. I'm almost sorry I won't achieve that standard but I intend this one to look good all the same. You're right it is a project and a half. 

[newbee]

I have ordered more balsa wood to use as filler blocks for the stern section. Unfortunately I have no decent sized blocks left. In the meantime I will get back to the Golden Hind and a little more sandinng in between. Just a photo to compare the difference between the two. Thanks for all the comments and likes so far. 

[newbee]

Thank you all for the likes so far. Since the last update I have been busy sanding while still being stuck getting the bulkheads of the golden hind looking the way I want. The shape of the bows still need some work but the sanding here is nearly done. The blocks of balsa have arrived and I have started cutting them into shape. The frames 14 to 17 will have the filler blocks as, from the drawings it looks like the rabbet line extends from frame 14 and curves up to the top of the stern post, The stern section will be difficult to plank as it has a complex shape. I decided to pin a strip of 1mm from frame 14 to 17 to see how it will need to be shaped. The first strip I pinned directly to the frames as they are, which looks like a straight line. The second one I pinned but allowed it to curve which I think looks ok. The problem I have is that frame 15 looks like it needs to be built up more. around 7mm sloping to 3 mm to allow for the curve of the planking to frame 17. I will attach photos of what I mean and need to ask for advice at this point to try to achieve the correct shape starting in the correct position. I have a feeling frame 15 was sanded down way to much and was also not bevelled but I don't know for sure. I added a block of balsa infront of the frame to create the curve. Any advice on this would be really appreciated. I've a nasty feeling this won't be the last time I'll need advice. I've just realised these photos are over exposed. I will retake them tomorrow. I will also need to reline some of the gunports if I can. The keel is also slightly warped but I am not too worried about this at this point, Thanks in advance. 

David.

[newbee]

I've had a productive time this weekend, all be it with no work managed on the Golden Hind. I decided to build up the stern with the balsa blocks. I added more than I needed to but I'm pretty much working blind regarding what had been already been built. It looks like I was wrong about the frames being sanded down too far. I had assumed that they would have been bevelled. Having sanded the filler blocks I now believe they just hadn't been bevelled at all.

 

With hindsight, I should haven't used so much as it has meant a lot more hard work sanding, not to mention the waste. However, I did expect this to an extent as, I figured it would be better to add too much and sand to shape, rather than finding out I hadn't used enough and try to add. The bulk of the sanding is now done and I just need to tidy it up and get to the final shape particularly the straight edge of frame 17 for the planks to lay onto. 

I have also applied more filler to the main deck section and sanded it smooth again. I have also added 0.5mm lime strips to the stern facia and counter. These just need a little sanding before I paint them, particularly, the windows. I have left both pieces slightly oversized for now as I don't know how well they will fit once the sides of the ship are sanded down and re planked. It certainly feels like I am making progress so far.

 

Getting the stern looking right was what would have decided if this build continues or not so I am really happy to be making good progress despite making more work for myself. I am hoping to finish sanding the stern this week and also see if I can remove lining from the off square gun ports. I have 2 meters of 1mm x 7mm lime strip which, should be enough to redo them all, if required. Once these are done I want to sand the hull again to ensure the sides are symetrical, which they aren't at present.

[allanyed]

NB

Using filler blocks is a wise move.  If you have not already studied it, the contemporary model at RMG may be of some help not to mention the plans they have of Diana 1794.  Note that as she is post 1790, she does not carry her name on the stern which was by Admiralty orders (maybe not universally adhered to😀)

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66303  

 

[oakheart]

21 hours ago, newbee said:

I've had a productive time this weekend

 

Good luck with your build, I thought my flea market Unicorn Hull was bad, but this takes the biscuit 🙂

 

Tim

[DaveBaxt]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

NB

Using filler blocks is a wise move.  If you have not already studied it, the contemporary model at RMG may be of some help not to mention the plans they have of Diana 1794.  Note that as she is post 1790, she does not carry her name on the stern which was by Admiralty orders (maybe not universally adhered to😀)

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66303  

 

Some good photos there Alan which clearly shows a very high standard of workmanship, something we can hope to achieve. 

[allanyed]

59 minutes ago, DaveBaxt said:

Some good photos there Alan which clearly shows a very high standard of workmanship, something we can hope to achieve. 

To me, the most remarkable thing is that those craftsmen 250 years ago had no electrical tools at all.  The patience and skill they had to create these works of art is incredible.

Allan

[newbee]

Thanks for your comments guys. 

I knew the filler blocks would be essential to be able to contine shaping the hull Allan. I have looked at the photos both from the RMG but also other build logs here. The photos you've added are better than the ones I have found so thank you for those. 

As you said Dave some excellent workmanship. Unfortunately I think I've left it too late to get to museum standard but am happy to have a decent looking ship at the end. 

Thanks for your best wishes Tim. I will need to look at your log of the Unicorn. Until I was 50 I never had the space to attempt a wooden ship kit. I also had never thought any existed until a few years earlier. I had made lots of plastic ones over the years and a few balsa planes. I really wish I had started on wooden ships when I was a lot younger. I still need to finnish the President kit. (Rigging still to complete), the second Golden Hind and also this one. Once they are all completed I will see if I am able to build another one. I'm not going to worry too much as I have at least 4 years work ahead of me to complete them all. 

I am really happy that I over built the filler blocks ad it's giving me a margin now to work with to achieve the right dhape but, even then, it's not an easy shape to create. There are so many photos to look at but I'm still looking for one from exactly the right angle I need. I must admit I didn't appreciate how much I eould have to do to this hull and the list is still growing!!!

[newbee]

I have just seen your unicorn log Tim. I see what you mean now. I think it will take me longer to complete my hull as I have so much sanding and correcting before I can replank it. I already have a softish patch on the starboard bow so will have concentrate on matching the port side. At least your hull is un planked whereas mine has benn but I've no idea how well or badly. I'm erring on the side of caution at the moment. 

[newbee]

Tonight I took break from sanding the stern and looked at the gunports. These I knew weren't all level nor the correct size. Before I can fill out the ships sides the gun ports will need to be completed. Now I've opened up another can of worms. Most of the ports came out quite easily and some not so. The inner stern planking came away but out of sight luckily. The thickness of the gun ports varies from 6 or 7 mm up to 10mm at the bow. The inner planking runs up to frame 2 but the frames weren't bevelled for them to bend to the correct shape. This means there's too large a gap between the inner and outer planking. Also the starboard side doesn't run straight as there is a definate sag towards the centre line, which I had already realised. This will also need to be built up. Again not a real problem but definately a hiccup. As the inner planking at the bow will not be visible I am thinking of cutting it away from the fore side of the 2nd gun port and building up the inner planking to the correct width. The gunports themselves should be easy enough to get to the right sizes with the addition of of extra strips of timber, but more fiddly work on top of everything else. I have also changed my mind to replanking the hull from 0.5mm to 1mm, which I hope will give a little more wriggle room for shaping the rest of the hull. I also have a lot of red painted match wood, LOL. 

[newbee]

Just a quick update. I've removed the inner planking around gunports 1 & 2 and have managed to build them back up on the port side. Whilst starting on the starboard I was thinking about the rest of the work I will need to do and decided to start planning things out better. I want to sand the hull completely but the gunports need to be finished first. I want to paint the inner hull but ditto. I can't plank the gun deck until the bulwarks are painted etc. I now have a list of 8 steps that need to be done before the main hull is shaped. 

1 shape and line gunports. 

2 build up gap between the main deck section and the hull. Approx 2x2mm.

3 sand and paint inner hull. 

4 plank the gun deck. 

5 add all fittings to the gun deck sides. 

6 sand down the hull ready for final planking. I need to ensure that both sides are identical.!!! 

7 remake or buy 18lb gun carriages and rig the visible cannons but leave loose. 

8 add all the deck furniture 

 

Where I cut away below the main deck section, there is now a 2mm gap to be filled. The planking is less than 2.5 mm wide so I am thinking to run a 2x3mm balsa strip along the top of the hull, pin the main deck in place and then add another strip of balsa on top. The sides can be sanded down with the hull and the top sanded when the main deck is fitted in place. I am afraid, given my starting point, I am going to improvise (cheat) and build up the upper hull above the foc'stle and quarter deck with strips rather than planking.

I am hoping to still use the cannons supplied as, having experimented with 1, I think I can reduce the size of the cascabel to a more accurate one. All in all I'm guessing it's about 2

months of spare time altogether though possibly more. I have made a crude looking 16mmx14mm guide for the gunports so they can be shaped properly. The sides of gunports 1 will also need bevelled to accommodate the guns. 

[Theodosius]

Beside the money, I would like to know, in the end, if this was more or less work than building a new kit :-). But all the same, I have great respect for what you are doing here :-).

[newbee]

Thanks for dropping by Theodosius, the answer at the moment is. I'm not sure. There's maybe more work involved with rectifying mistakes but the basic shape is there. The proof will be if I can sand down each side of the hull without thinning it too much. If I can complete this build at 1/2 the price of the kit I will be well happy. I have a lot of blocks from 1/80 scale that looked way too large but at this scale should be ok. The same with the many reels of rigging thread. I have never tried de fluffing them before but am happy giving this a go this time around. We will see.