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St. Roch by David Lester - FINISHED - Billing Boats - 1:72


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I'm back with a build log after a bit of an absence. I've had multiple health problems over the past year, which is in part why I didn't do a build log for my HMS Pegasus and why it took me so long to build it, being away from my shop for long periods of time. However, I seem to be in decent shape for the time being (touch wood) and am back at my workbench.

 

In my hiatus I had been pondering what my next project would be when I stumbled across this model on the Billing website, and after a little bit more research I knew I had found it.

 

This one appealed to me for several reasons:

-I wanted something simpler than my last few builds had been

-this one has almost no rigging!

-it's a Canadian boat. I haven't seen any other one available as a model, apart from the Bluenose

-it has a remarkable history - it's only the second boat to ever travel through the Northwest Passage and the first to make the trip twice - it's the first do make the voyage in under one year and it's the first to circumnavigate North America - it resides today at the Vancouver Maritime Museum, has been declared a National Historic Site and the great Stan Rogers recorded a song about it.

-there are plenty of pictures and videos online to use as a reference

-did I mention that it has almost no rigging?

 

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When I was in my 20's I built (very badly) a Billing model, but I don't recall if the quality of the kit was good or bad and I had no frame of reference in any case. So this is for all intents and purposes my first Billing kit and I have a mixed reaction to it.

 

So far the good things are:

-the laser cutting is very good and the bulkheads and centre keel fit together extremely well. They're as good as I have ever encountered.

-there are quite few specialized brass fittings which are really nice and of good quality.

-while the model is simplified, there are no glaring errors in its representation of the real boat.

 

However, there are some negatives too:

-there are too many poor quality plastic fittings which come on a sprue just like it was a plastic model car kit.

-the hull and deck planking material is pretty rough and not very consistent in width.

-while I did want a simpler model, there is too much simplification with this one. Built straight out of the box it would look like one of those gift shop ship models. At 1:72 it's large enough for the designer to have incorporated much more detail.

-the plans are poorly drawn. The instruction book is all but useless, which is fine - I didn't expect it to be otherwise, but the plans are disappointing. They appear to be a 1:1 representation of the model, but they are very inaccurate. For example for some of the deck components there are discrepancies in size of up to 1/2" between the elevation and plan views. It's impossible to take measurements from the plan.

 

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Nevertheless, it's going to be lots of fun adding detail and upgrading many of the fittings. I currently have big orders in at BlueJacket and Cornwall.

 

So far, I have the hull planked, in my usual "suitable for filler and paint" style. I'm a terrible planker, but I never worry about it because filler and paint are my best friends. I've used some planking from my stash, rather than the kit provided planking.

 

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I've made two improvements to the stern area. The kit instructions would have you just cut all of the planking off even at the last bulkhead before the stern. Then you add the two stern blocks and sand them even with the finished planking, leaving them unplanked, just to be painted. I chose to install the stern blocks first and plank over them in the usual way, however I found it to be quite a difficult stern to plank.

 

Secondly, the kit provides for no opening to accept the rudder; it's meant to just butt up against the bottom of the hull. The real boat has a framed rectangular opening, so I added that detail.

 

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That's where I'm at!

 

David

 

 

 


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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Welcome back! Glad to hear you’re feeling healthy! Always enjoy your build logs and this one looks interesting.

Jim 

Current Build: HMS Winchelsea, Model Shipways Mayflower 

Completed Builds: NRG Half Hull Project  

                                   Model Shipways 18th Century Armed Longboat

                                   Dumas 1954 Chris Craft 36' Commander

                                   Dumas 1940 Chris Craft 19' Barrel Back

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Good to see you back, David.

Can I ask, what are you using for references?

Jeff Betcher

 

Current Builds:

Completed Builds: Lively of Baltimore 1813 - The Lumberyard; 1/72 Canadair CL-215 water bomber Ontario markings, 1/72 Canadair CL-215 water bomber Newfoundland markings; 1/72 Canadair CL-415 water bomber Ontario markings

Future Builds: Future Builds: HMS Bounty - Artesania Latina; Tender "Avos" Master Korabel; NRG Half Hull; HMS Speedy Vanguard Models

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Hey David, great to see you. I will follow along for morel support. Looks like a fun model. I won't be back in my shipyard for at least a month or so. But I will be watching  . Good luck on your journey!!!

Start so you can Finish !!

Finished:         The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 ,   Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA  Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar  The King Of the Mississippi  Artesania Latina  1:80 

 

 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models :)

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Jeff, on the website for the Vancouver Maritime Museum (www.vanmaritime.com) there is a very good 360 tour. It shows virtually every aspect of the decks and cabin of the boat in great detail. However, it doesn't show the hull. On Youtube there are various videos that different people have made of their visits to the museum. A number of them include good views of the hull. Together, they cover the whole thing really well.

David


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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I have just started the st roch as well. Thanks for the tip about the museum virtual tour. It shows everything and has a tool for measuring what ever you want. I could easily measure the size and spacing of the buwarks timberheads.  I have wanted to eliminate the model's widely spaced ones with more accurate ones but could never find a photo that showed them hood enough for scale.

What changes are you thinking about?

Bill

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Hi Bill,

To be honest, I had completely missed the tools available on the 360. I expect the measuring tool will be quite helpful. The stanchions are the very first thing I intend to improve upon as well. My plan was to count them on the 360 tour and then eyeball their spacing. But it will be fun to use the measuring tool and see how well they will fit. At a quick look I would say that stock about 3/32" x 3/32" should be about right, but I may have to go to 1/16" square to ensure staying fully within the width of the rail cap its entire length (they can be tricky to install with complete accuracy for their full run.)

 

I think I mentioned that the measurements on the plans are not reliable. For example, the large chest that sits immediately behind the aft mast is shown as being 1 5/16" long in the elevation view and 1" long in the plan view. That's quite a significant difference. Since I am planning to scratch build all of the deck components it will be necessary to take measurements from the model itself.

 

As far as my plans for other improvements, my list so far includes:

-the addition of waterways; the kit doesn't include or mention them

-the addition of the six gooseneck vents - along the bulwarks towards the stem

-the other vents are shown to be made out of 1/16" brass rod bent into shape. I've experimented and it bends quite well and will make convincing pipes, but I have some 0.10" x 0.20" styrene strip and I'm going to apply it to create ridges and more closely resemble the real thing.

-there are many items on the deck, most of them appear to be chests. The plans just have you glue pre-cut rectangles together to create boxes. I'm planning to scratch build all the chests with planking and edge trim etc.

-many of the chests on the real boat are covered in canvas; I'm planning to use some of my accumulated sail material to do that too.

-you'll notice in the 360 tour that the deck planking extends slightly beyond the forward wall of the main cabin. The model has the side planking on on the cabin extend right down to the main deck. I'm planning to correct that tiny detail.

-the davits. At first, I thought that the davits were missing from the kit until I realized that the part number referred to the brass rod, which they simply want you to bend into a gentle arc and that's it. Real davits have a bit of a profile; they're not just cylindrical and the same diameter all the way from bottom to top and they need a hole near the top and cleats attached and what not. So I've order some replacement davits.

 

With respect to the rigging, so far as I can see, it's reasonable accurate. It isn't too hard to follow it on the 360 tour and it differs from the kit very slightly. I am going to upgrade the blocks. The blocks on the real boat are all internally stropped, so I've ordered some from BlueJacket. These are really nice and make quite a big difference. (I used them on my Bluenose.)The kit provides only single blocks, but you actually need a combination of single, double and even triple blocks.

 

Now the question of the plastic parts. I have to admit that it really annoys me that they use them at all. I would gladly have paid a little more for the kit to have gotten proper fittings. That being said, I haven't quite decided on everything just yet, and I haven't discounted all of the plastic parts.

 

For example, the kit provides black plastic port holes for use on the hull, and quite lovely brass ones for use on the cabin. However, in my opinion, the black plastic ones are actually superior. They have a very flat flange and even the rivets or bolt heads are shown. Since they are to be painted, these ones will very closely resemble the real thing. On the other hand, the brass ones, intended for the cabin, have a very heavy protruding flange and no bolt heads - not like the real ones at all. On the real boat the port holes on the cabin are the same as the ones on the hull - very flat, or maybe even flush flanges with bolt heads and painted. I've actually ordered more of the plastic ones, as I think once painted, they will be the best option, despite being plastic.

 

I'm planning to use the plastic life boats. They're really pretty bad, but I'm not interested in building wooden ones and to replace them with metal ones isn't that much of an improvement. My compromise is to paint them gray, and make a "canvas" cover out of sail cloth and cover most of them, just like on the real boat. The interiors won't be visible at all and I think I can easily get away with that.

 

This is not the case for everything. The plastic vents (or stacks) on the other hand are really very bad, so I'm going to replace those with brass tubing. I'm also replacing the plastic propeller.

 

The big remaining question for me though is the windlass and the two winches. They're quite simplified from the real thing, and are a combination of plastic and brass parts. I haven't had any luck seeing upgrade components online from any of the suppliers that look enough like the real ones. So that leaves either living with the provided ones or building new ones either from scratch or modifying the kit ones. I don't know yet. This is a little way down the line, so I will grapple with that question when I get to it.

 

Sorry if this seems like a long winded response, Bill, but you did ask!😊 I'm well know for this in the family and can make my wife pass out in seconds when I share this kind of information with her!

 

David

 

Edited by David Lester


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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David, it will be fun to compare notes.

I measured the timber heads at about 7 inches wide and 3 ft 6 in on center.

I also like adding trim details to the deck structures. However my models have been mostly 1:48 so I admit to being a little nervous about doing that at 1:72.  Old eyes/old fingers.

Sometime tell us where you are getting davits etc. I have used bluejacket blocks before and liked them at 1/4 inch scale and found them difficult at 1/8 th scale.

   I planned on adding waterways too. I traced them off deck before starting on hull. I used 1/32 box wood and plan on laying deck and then placing them on top of the decking because it seems like they are raised above deck on the 360 views.

    I am just started fairing the hull so about the same point in the build as you.

Bill

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I've been working on various deck details.

Here's how I built the hatch -

 

The hatch on the boat as it is at Vancouver Maritime Museum-

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The challenge with this kit is determining what size the deck details ought to be. For example, the kit provided hatch is 50 mm long, but on the plan it shows it as 61 mm long. The 360 degree tour that's available online has a measuring tool, which I am finding to be quite accurate. So, the idea is to consider all the different sizes - the kit component, the plans, the 360 degree tour measurement, and the actual model itself. It's a matter of experimenting and determining what will fit and looks about right.

 

Here's the kit provided hatch -

It's three pieces of pre-cut plywood stacked and finished off with a plastic top. Quite apart from its incorrect length, it's a bit too high as well.

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Having determined what size it needed to be. (I can't remember off hand, what those dimensions are)  I used 1/16" x 1/8" stock. I built it in the same "finger joint" style of the real one, but that little detail doesn't really show up after it's painted.

 

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A thin top brought it up to 10.5 mm which is pretty close to the correct height in scale.

 

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I added a canvas cover using sail material from a previous kit -

 

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Next up is the cargo scow.

 

Jumping ahead to these details is to give me something to do while coats of filler on the hull dry.

 

David

 

 

Edited by David Lester


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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A little progress to report -

 

I finished up the planking and painted the gray on the hull.

 

IMG_0918.jpg.e3c75ad804bdea447ac24a6fad323354.jpg

 

I intend to add all the stanchions to the bulwarks as well as the waterways, both of which are missing from the kit. In order to do that, I broke off (some by accident) all of the bulkhead extensions.

 

I added the first strip of the waterways (1/32" x 1/16") to the subdeck following its contour. Without the bulkhead extensions, I needed something to place the upper hull pieces against. The waterway created a small lip.

 

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I glued the upper hull pieces in place.

 

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I added the second strip of the the waterways.

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The bulwarks are planked on the inside, just at the stern and bow of the boat. This detail is omitted from the kit, but I wanted to add it. I have the stern done.

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There is a hawse opening at the stern of the boat which I wanted to add as well, so I've cut it in, using the hawse trim (from BlueJacket) as a guide. There are none included in the kit, but I'll add them for all five of the hawse openings. The smallest ones from BlueJacket are about the right length, but just a tad too high. A gentle squeeze with a pair of pliers fixed it easily.

 

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I added the planking to the upper hull at the bow and the stern.

 

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That's everything so far. Please forgive how rough everything looks. I know I still have plenty of sanding and painting ahead of me.

 

Many thanks for the comments and 'likes.'

 

David

IMG_0923.jpg


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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I am torn!

Looking ahead, I discovered this about the portholes in the hull. The rubbing strake runs right over the flanges.

 

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What should I do? If I include that detail then I run the risk of looking like I've made an error, but it appears it would be the most accurate.

 

Or do I locate the portholes slightly higher to look a little tidier, but sacrifice some accuracy.

 

Such problems I have!

 

David


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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David, I looked at a lot of St. Roch builds today the ones that look the best are just in line with the portholes. I even went to the Vancouver Museum web site, their St. Roch portholes are even with the rubbing stake. I think they look good.

 Can we lower the rubbing stake   just a bit or do you have to raise the portholes.

I would go for a little tidier than accuarcy but I am a newbie lol. :cheers:

Start so you can Finish !!

Finished:         The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 ,   Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA  Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar  The King Of the Mississippi  Artesania Latina  1:80 

 

 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models :)

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It is a piece of art so my feeling is it depends on which master you’d like to serve. Accuracy or clean lines? The beauty is in the eye of the beholder so your call. I can make a case in my own head for either direction. Enjoying the build!

Jim 

Current Build: HMS Winchelsea, Model Shipways Mayflower 

Completed Builds: NRG Half Hull Project  

                                   Model Shipways 18th Century Armed Longboat

                                   Dumas 1954 Chris Craft 36' Commander

                                   Dumas 1940 Chris Craft 19' Barrel Back

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David, 

  I too wanted to add timberheads and like you had a few  of the bulkhead extensions break off as I was sanding the hull. But I just glued a small scrap to the deck with a dab of CA and then glued the bulwarks to the deck taking care to not get any glue on the extensions. After everything was dry I cut off the extensions. Now I am gluing a 1/16 x 1/16th strip along bulwarks just below the rail to match the actual ship.

   I made waterways out of 1/32 material and decided to lay them on top of the planking since photos seemed to show them thicker than the deck planking. Anyway this made deck planking very quick since they would run wild under the waterways. No exact cutting.

     What hawse pipe fitting did you find?. I also want to add one to the  stern and cover the existing ones.

   Now on to the timber heads. Which seem to have different spacing  forward, at the waist, and aft. Not sure if I'll do that or just put them all the same.

   Bill

 

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Historical accuracy in this case might also be a creature of the restoration of the St Roch for display in the VMM - don't know much about the history of the restoration or how much photo documentation of the original vessel exists that might highlight this feature. From an architectural perspective, I can't see the overlap of the rubbing strakes and portholes making a lot of sense....at the same time, I've worked with enough contractors to know that sense often gets sacrificed for convenience in the real world as in the world of modelling - though usually with much greater consequences.

 

In a situation like this I would always choose aesthetic effects over accuracy of representation - it bugs me to look at the photos of St Roch and see this feature - I imagine some poor person trying to rout out the back sides of the rubbing strakes to fit snugly around the portholes and cursing whoever put them in that position in the first place. And then I imagine someone working at scale trying to do the same thing...sheesh! It's one thing to cut wales or bulwarks planking around gunports, and quite another to try to achieve this kind of effect.  But that's just me! 

hamilton

current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780); Admiralty models Echo cross-section (semi-scratch)
 
previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); 
MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit)HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS GreyhoundFair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851)Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch); Off-Centre Sailing Skiff (scratch)
 
under the bench: MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy

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On 2/18/2024 at 12:10 PM, David Lester said:

I am torn!

Looking ahead, I discovered this about the portholes in the hull. The rubbing strake runs right over the flanges.

 

Picture60.png.50ac61e919ba4e9cebd56fb4393c5f47.png

Looking at the box art photo, they appear to do just that. 

Capturejk9.JPG.53c0269ba150c0ea59a562ce14d09b07.JPG

 

On the actual ship I'd be willing to bet that the rubbing strake was trimmed back where they overlap.  Otherwise, replacing the portholes would be next to impossible.

Dave

“You’ve just got to know your limitations”  Dirty Harry

Current Builds:  Modified MS 1/8” scale Phantom, and modified plastic/wood hybrid of Aurora 1:87 scale whaling bark Wanderer.

Past Builds: (Done & sold) 1/8” scale A.J. Fisher 2 mast schooner Challenge, 1/6” scale scratch built whaler Wanderer w/ plans & fittings from A.J. Fisher, and numerous plastic kits including 1/8” scale Revell U.S.S. Constitution (twice), Cutty Sark, and Mayflower.

                  (Done & in dry dock) Modified 1/8” scale Revell U.S.S. Constitution w/ wooden deck and masting [too close encounter w/conc. floor in move]

Hope to get to builds: MS 3/16” scale Pride of Baltimore II,  MS 1/2” scale pinky schooner Glad Tidings,  a scratch build 3/16” scale  Phantom, and a scratch build 3/16" scale Denis Sullivan.

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Thanks everyone for your input on the placement of the portholes vis-a-vis the rubbing strake. I believe most of you favour placing the portholes so that they just clear the rubbing strake and I think that's the way I will go. I think if I place the rubbing strake over the portholes, it will look like I messed up somewhere along the way, (and since that never happens 😁, why suggest that it did!)

 

Bill, your St. Roch is coming along very nicely. You asked where I found the trim for the hawse holes. They are a BlueJacket fitting. Here's a picture of the fittings I bought from BlueJacket.

 

BlueJacket calls them hawse lips(F0743.) They're in the upper left of the picture. The lower one is how they come and the upper one is after a little squeeze to more closely resemble the real thing. The others are Hawse lips for the anchors (F0451.) Also there is an anchor for the deck (F0506,) the davits(F0071,) these are not quite the right arc, but can be easily bent into the right shape. They are a bit too long, but I can either cut them off or sink them deeper. Chocks for the rail (F0089,) and blocks. The blocks on the real boat are all internally stropped. These ones (7/32" - F0378 and F0403) will work well. I'll paint them. Also, I decided to add a ships wheel (F0291)which I think will be visible through the window.


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I also added a few things from Cornwall Model Boats. On the real boat there are six gooseneck vents along the waterways, which are not included in the kit. I thought I'd try these ones. I'm not sure that they're quite right. As small as they are, I think they are still a bit overscale. My plan B is to make them from scratch using pieces of 3mm solder that I have kicking around. (It's about 40 years old and dates from the days when I was still suffering from the delusion that I could successfully accomplish my own plumbing repairs.)

 

Even if I don't use those gooseneck vents, there's another reason why I bought them and that was to get the valves that come with them. They aren't needed for the vents, but another detail that can be added is the two or three water spigots. These won't be hard to make from scratch, but the valves would be. These ones should work for that quite well.

 

I also bought a ladder kit as well as a couple of anchors for the side of the hull.

 

IMG_0936.jpg.9399a6691390ebf2a1a5c2c032f7274f.jpg

I mentioned in an earlier post that although I generally don't like the plastic parts included in the kit, I actually prefer the provided plastic portholes to the provided brass ones. The plastic ones match the real ones quite accurately and since they will be painted they should look just fine. Cornwall offers these, so I bought a few more to replace the brass ones, which I think have too big a rim.

 

IMG_0937.jpg.ab082fbbe5b88e5b00281b8da9d12139.jpg

 

I want to show the ends of the deck planking under the cabin, so I cut the sub deck back a bit and put in a support to carry the ends of the planking stubs. I then filled in the mini planks. This way it won't throw the measurements of the cabin out of whack, as the provided pieces don't account for the extra 1/32" or so that would result if I placed them directly over the sub deck.

IMG_0932.jpg.3a76ec5c053939bcb8de959c1cd5b7a4.jpg

IMG_0933.jpg.7927b02b0387a4480d39ef8df87d51f8.jpg

 

So that's it for now. This simple kit is proving to be even more fun that I expected.

 

Many thanks for checking in. I really appreciate it.

David

 

 


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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David thanks for the parts info.

One question. It seems to me there was an outside steering station on the roof of the pilot house. I think it shows on the 360 virtual covered with canvas and the documentary about the voyage definity shows the skipper standing outside doing some steering.  Have you noticed this?

Bill

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Hi Bill,

I have noticed both early on and to be honest, haven't really given it any thought since. It's a bit confusing, isn't it?

 

I think this is what you are referring to on the top of the pilot house, but it doesn't look to me as though the canvas-covered structure is large enough to contain a steering wheel; certainly not one as large as the one shown in the historical picture. Also the historical picture shows a wide base rather than a column. (It also shows a cowl vent which the boat doesn't currently have.) Clearly changes have occurred over the life of the boat.

Picture201.png.8f16bea3d5497a0d0983c43e57dff27f.png

Picture301.png.9361d899360ab6f2f43b589ab5936c89.png

 

Another question - if this is a steering wheel, there appears to be no mechanism to connect it to the rudder. There's nothing visible on the ceiling of the pilot house. This leads me to suspect that the canvas-covered structure is not a steering wheel, but if that's the case, I don't know what it might be.

 

picture200.png.9bc7d526ecfa8897125e9c38eb70dad4.png

I may be showing my ignorance here, but there's another thing on the roof that I can't identify -

 

Picture150.png.07ba9a91f187bd3e5dd3686ef31005f4.png

Any ideas of what this might be?

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by David Lester


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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You are right about steering base being triangular rather than round. So it is a bit puzzling.

The other things looks like it has a Compass on top of it. I think that this is a Compass that is connected to an autopilot. I had something similar on our old sailboat. If so it is certainly an add on and not from the original time period.

Bill 

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I found these pictures, which answer the question about the location of the steering wheel -

 

sddefault.jpg.63263967154372b1b70008d63745734a.jpg

40d090e1-883d-4265-8a4d-1be76e74b76d.jpg.a028d6ed41e81a3c5afa1e8f418935f9.jpg

But there seem to be unending questions:

In the pictures above, which would seem to be about the same era, the first one shows three port holes and the second one shows two. Also the planking around the lettering is different.

 

The boat has clearly had several rebuilds, in which it has been changed considerably.

 

This picture is supposedly from 1928, the year it was launched:

12223756_St.-Roch.jpg.e74b27f6f366c50683f072bcafa89654.jpg

It had a totally different masting and rigging, three port holes, no cabin, I guess that's a pilothouse, big cowl vents, different paint scheme etc.

 

But by the time of its Northwest Passage days, which were in the 1940's it seems it was altered to looked pretty much the way it does now, but then here's a picture from probably the 50's and it's been rebuilt again, closer to when it was launched, but still differing in several ways - the pilot house is different, the port holes have gone from three to two etc.

 

 

15062357337_89d067519d_b.jpg.879794a936780c3304729ebcf4b88384.jpg

I'm guessing they restored it to look like its Northwest Passage years when it went on display at the museum, but that still leaves the question of why the steering wheel isn't there. They obviously made choices at the museum, but I'm not sure what were the deciding factors for those choices.

 

I haven't found any narratives on-line yet that outline these changes, but I'll keep digging.

 

David

 


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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Look at the trouble figuring all this out for a ship less than a hundred years old, In the time of photographs and films and still existing. Then think about the accuracy of information about ships from 2-300 years ago.

    we need to keep on mind that these ships were not built as museum pieces but as working craft that changed over the years as usage and technology changed. So historical accuracy is important to an extent but remembering it's just a snap shot of a moment in its life. We get to chose what we want it to look like.  For example I've never liked the blue gray paint  color and reddish deck paint and feel no guilt about changing it to how I would have painted it.

Bill 

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Good Monning,

Look what I am the "lucky" recipient of -

 

IMG_0939.jpg.5fff74832f9200a35cd7657edfa81fe9.jpg

I have a friend who is interested in all aspects of history, but especially naval and military history. When I mentioned to him that I was building St. Roch, he was the first person I had spoken to who knew the vessel I was talking about, knew its history and even knew its captain's name. Furthermore, he said he had a picture of it that I needed to have (or he needed to be rid of, I can't quite remember.)

 

For some reason my wife does not want to see it hanging over our fireplace, so I guess it will be my basement shop for the time being.

 

David


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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A quick update today -

 

I've been working away at a variety of things.

 

I've added the stanchions (which are not part of the kit's plans) including the curved transition piece where the deck levels change. This recreates the actual boat quite closely. The stanchions are much closer together in the centre part of the boat and further apart at the bow.

 

IMG_0949.jpg.1cce13461bd8bf9384f94a40aaf57365.jpg

I've also been working on the decking.

 

 

IMG_0950.jpg.7aaae19cd047369f87e91ea11a49b146.jpg

I didn't use the provided decking material, which is that .5 x3mm stuff of indeterminate origin which I don't like very much. Instead I used some 1/32" x 3/32" basswood. The decks on the St. Roch appear to be painted, so that's how I finished these decks too. I have never painted a deck before and I was afraid that it would completely obscure the planking, so I tried something I've never done before and that was to paint the planking before installing it. It's not likely that I would ever do it this way for a deck that was finished in one of the more usual ways, but for this painted deck, I think it worked quite well.

 

IMG_0944.jpg.6fc3aa871b85c7e9f73a15211d4c1784.jpg

I also added waterways, which the kit doesn't provide for, but I did make a compromise. On the actual boat the waterways sit higher than the decking, but I have opted to make them all level. With the slightly thicker planking that I used, It was getting a bit too tight along the bulwarks if I made the waterways any higher than I did. This is a small compromise that I can readily live with.

 

A couple of other little things -

 

I made the chimneys from scratch using 3mm brass tubing. I am really bad at soldering and don't really like doing it very much. However after several stabs at it, I managed to get an acceptable result.

 

IMG_0947.jpg.30fae3063b03a1d5387488c253960e11.jpg

I've finished the rudder, which is now ready for paint, as well as made a spare one to sit on the deck, as per the actual boat. The kit doesn't reference this spare rudder, but it does provide two rudders. The spare had to be modified to be made longer as the one to be installed on the stern only just reaches the bottom of the hull.

 

IMG_0948.jpg.3c650d3b2b4041caad2d910221b037fc.jpg

The kit provides four life rings which are plastic and I decided that once they were painted up they looked as good as any cast metal upgraded version would. So I chose to use these ones rather than replacements like I'm doing for so many of the other fittings.

 

IMG_0946.jpg.20a61f0af21e373b1bab78919d23eba8.jpg

That's it for tonight. My next challenge is to try to figure out a simple, but effective way to replicate the steel sheathing on the bow of the hull.

 

Many thanks for checking in.

 

David

 


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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Looking good.

  are you going to plank the sides of the main house?

     I tried making the rack for the fire hose that is on the ship but not the kit. Rack came out fine but haven't figured out what/how to make the hose. 

      This model has a bunch of deck structures that are kind of fun to make and miscellaneous vents and pipes that should add to the details that always seem to add a lot to a model. I'll be interested in how you approach these.

Bill

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Hi Bill,

Sorry, I just noticed your post now. Yes, I have planked the deck house and will be posting pictures later today.

 

I too have been thinking about how best to add the fire hose. One thought I had (they come to me at 3 in the morning) is to use some sail material from another kit. I'll coat one side of it with watered down glue, so it doesn't fray like crazy. Then I thought I would cut a narrow strip, let's say about 1/4"wide, then fold it over along its length, making it about 1/8" wide. This will leave a rounded edge and a raw edge. Then roll the strip up, placing the folded, rounded edge out. I don't know yet if it will work, but that is what my first attempt will look like. 

 

The real fun of this kit is the many missing details that can be added. Thank goodness for that 360 tour on the museum website.

David


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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Posted (edited)

So, here are some pictures of my progress.

 

I wanted to replicate the steel cladding on the hull and wasn't sure how to do it. I ordered some thin foil, but unfortunately when it arrived, it was much too heavy to manipulate, so a thought occurred to me, and here is the result:

IMG_0953.jpg.e29aed33eff32aebf7559eaba3b1990f.jpg

I used masking tape. The beauty of it is, it will stretch in more than one direction. I don't know what the longevity of it will be, but to be honest I don't care. I'm old and realistically, how long does anyone need this thing to last?

 

I represented the nails, or rivets, or whatever they should be called, with a mechanical pencil with no lead in it. It was the ideal tool to make the round indentations. They don't show up too much from a normal viewing distance, but just enough.

 

IMG_0940.jpg.aa3a0ca7c06e32b0549c84e68e450884.jpg

First, I built up the raised area

 

IMG_0942.jpg.f8679743945afba569c1e3445ffc79d2.jpg

Then tapered it.

 

IMG_0943.jpg.d598f68d242f8ade8c7e3798fe14b72e.jpg

Then I applied the masking tape, trying to duplicate the actual pattern, and used multiple layers to get the effect needed.

 

Next up was the deck house. This was actually a bit trickier to position correctly than I anticipated. I planked each of the four walls first and after a quite a bit of swearing, got everything more or less square and secure.

IMG_0955.jpg.ec0115d96331725298f168513e6181fc.jpg

The plastic port holes are going to look just fine. They need another coat of paint, of course, and I still have a bit of "corner work" to do.

 

The roof had me concerned for a moment, It's a one-piece sheet of thin plywood, which is intended to be planked. My concern was how to treat the edges. On the real boat, there is a nice overhang on all sides, which is finished with a bullnose. There was no real overhang with the provided roof and I wasn't sure how to treat the edges, so I decided to discard the plywood roof and thin planking, in favour of using heavier 1/16" x 3/32" planks for the centre area and 1/'16" x 1/4" planks for a frame. It was easy to give the 1/16" stock a nice looking bullnose.

 

IMG_0957.jpg.b2c5f8d1b4d1451118c76cea9abd34cb.jpg

First I added some framework.

 

8594.jpg.669936028fe445d5c64a1a9fa760799e.jpg

The I rounded over the outside edge of the edge pieces.

6849.jpg.181eceb56569286d28a1283f3b2802d2.jpg

I handled the centre section, where the pilot house sits, separately.

IMG_0964.jpg.a454a76164053bc64667ebd8e8b5a17a.jpg

Then I filled in the rest and it's ready to be painted and have the crazy complicated collection of things added on top.

 

Many thanks for checking in!

David

 

 

Edited by David Lester


Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold)

Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati

 

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