Roar Ege by Scottish Guy - Billing Boats - 1:25

[Scottish Guy]

Welcome to my LOG for the Billing Boats "Roar Ege" in the scale 1:25. The parcel just arrived today. This is my first wooden ship ever and I hope that the journey will be a great one and that I will gain a lot of experience working with wood instead of plastic. I don´t even know what kind of glue I should use, my preference would be the Gorilla Wood Glue (using this one for all other wood works) but not sure if this will be the best option for wooden ship models.

 

The model is a "exact" replica of the "Skuldelev 3".

 

The Skuldelev 3 was a small merchant vessel (LOA 14 m) which has been built around 1,000 AD near the banks of Roskilde in Denmark. The remains have been found in 1982 with four other ships from the same era. The remains have been salvaged and are now displayed in the National Museum of Denmark.

 

On Saturday I will do the unboxing and I will post here the pictures of the unboxing.

 

Edited April 6 by Scottish Guy

[Scottish Guy]

Unboxing part I -  the kit...

here the pictures of the box and the open box.

 

< The box closed >

 

 

 

< The box with opened lid >

 

 

 

<The opened box with instructions and small pieces taken out >

 

 

 

< opened box only with wooden parts (sail, instructions and small pieces in lid) >

 

Edited April 7 by Scottish Guy

[Scottish Guy]

Unboxing Part II - bag with instructions

 

< The sealed bag with paperwork / instructions >

 

 

 

< the paperwork from the bag - instructions, drawing and warranty >

 

 

 

< the instructions - front page >

 

 

 

< instructions - first building page >

 

 

 

< general drawing of the ship >

 

Edited April 7 by Scottish Guy

[Scottish Guy]

Unboxing part III - the wooden parts & small pieces

 

 

< Planking parts >

 

 

 

< frame parts and keel >

 

 

 

< the small pieces - lines and nails >

 

Edited April 7 by Scottish Guy

[Scottish Guy]

The only question I have right now is, what kind of glue should I use for the build. I normally use for wood working the Gorilla Wood Glue, I still have some Ponal Wood Glue (Henkel). Both glues I use for "normal " wood working, for cabinet building or any other wood working but not sure if they work with such small items like the ones from the ship building kit.

 

Micha

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by Scottish Guy

[Keith Black]

 Personally I dislike all types of Gorilla glue. I use CA glues brands Loctite  or my preferred brand the original Super Glue. CA glues have a tube shelf life, it's important that if you use a CA that it is relatively new or as new as possible because its holding power diminishes with age (don't we all). You don't what to use a CA glue that's over a year old if possible just to be on the safe side.

 

 A lot of modelers feel using CA is a sacrilege and use a PVA yellow wood glue. There are good and bad points to using PVA or CA glues. There are numerous logs discussing the different glues and their benefits. Micha, search key words 'What type of glue' and you'll find those discussions.    

Edited April 7 by Keith Black

[Knocklouder]

Good luck on your journey, with the Roar Ege. I like to use Weld-bon for wood and far to much Gorilla CA glue for all the rest. Stick to it and you'll have a wonderful model.

Edited April 7 by Knocklouder
Typos

[Richard44]

Hi Micha,

 

I thought that I would show you a few photos of my Roar Ege. Unfortunately, there is no build log as I built it before joining MSW ☹️. Probably can't help much with questions either 🥴 as the build was quite a while ago. The kit does make into a nice model. Enjoy.

 

Cheers

[Scottish Guy]

8 hours ago, Richard44 said:

I thought that I would show you a few photos of my Roar Ege. Unfortunately, there is no build log as I built it before joining MSW ☹️. Probably can't help much with questions either 🥴 as the build was quite a while ago. The kit does make into a nice model. Enjoy.

 

Thank you Richard, looks nice, hope mine comes out that nice as well. I´m sure you would be able to answer one or two questions ^^. I checked already, looks like there is no LOG yet for the Roar Ege (at least I couldn´t find one - but the search didn´t wor for me well at all here, still can´t find a glue thread for wooden models).

 

Micha

[Keith Black]

https://modelshipworld.com/search/?q=glue&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=17

[BrochBoating]

On 4/7/2024 at 12:55 PM, Scottish Guy said:

The only question I have right now is, what kind of glue should I use for the build.

 

I use Gorilla white wood glue and find it dissolves nicely when needed. Their gel CA is good too if sometimes hard work to start a new bottle. Very good for second planking as spreads evenly with a bit of scrap to make a nice bond. For a low viscosity CA I use the cheap stuff from Tesco with a tube dispenser to get some control. The dispensers are about £6 for a bag of 50 ish from Amazon. Just trim the end if it drys, I’m still on the first one after several months of it open. 

Edited April 9 by BrochBoating

[Scottish Guy]

41 minutes ago, BrochBoating said:

I use Gorilla white wood glue and find it dissolves nicely when needed.

 Thank you Simon, that is in general my experience as well, it turns into clear when dried up (at least the one I use), so I will just use my Gorilla since I still have tons of it at home, just didn´t dare to use it since so many folks praised the CA or PVA stuff.
Also thank you for the advise with the Tesco CA stuff, will have a look into it tomorrow as well.

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

Another day in the preparation and ship building of the Roar Ege from Billing Boats in the scale 1:25. I checked all sheets and located and numbered the parts on the wooden sheets. Then I took a cutting chisel to gentle cut the parts out of the sheets. Which is quiet a tough job since the sheets are ver flimsy and wobbly. Also the gaps between the sheet frame and the required ship parts is not that huge that they are easily taken out of the sheets.

 

 

The parts of the keel

 

 

 

the parts of the keel and the support frame parts for the keel in the middle...

 

 

 

all parts of the keel, stems and frames (knees) nicely sorted by in order where they belong...

 

 

I tried to be as gentle as possible and it took me, with a coffee break roughly 60 minutes to get the parts cut out. Also not to forget all small pieces and support parts. I´m pretty sure I did forget some small pieces for N^o. 4 (some supporting frame parts), but will check that later on.

 

Tomorrow I will sand the edges to get smooth ones and will glue the keel and frame together, I just hope that the damaged parts will be fixed till then.

 

Micha

 

Edited April 8 by Scottish Guy

[Scottish Guy]

Damage Report:

 

Unfortunately three pieces got damaged by twisting them out of the sheets. I don`t think it should be a problem, especially not the keel part since it has the two supporting frame parts and is doubled, so it will be supported by its brother ^^.

 

 

more difficult I see the frame parts where just the small corner broke off, it got stuck as I tried to gentle push it out of the sheet, it twisted and got stuck, as I tried it with some tweezers it just broke

 

 

 

same as with 7F happened with 9F, unfortunately 9F is even smaller, still have the hope I can fix it...

 

 

Will try to glue it on with Superglue and leave it with heavy duty clamps for a day to dry... will report if it worked, if not I have to try to make a copy of those.

 

[Jaager]

Gorilla glue  is about the worst brand name that you could present as far as determining exactly what type of glue is being discussed.  Given the wide range of products with the name Gorilla, and the probable toxic and hazardous chemical synthesis involved, my guess is that most of their stuff is from core chemical companies - packaged and sold under various brand names - Gorilla being one of them.

 

The original Gorilla glue - the foaming polyurethane is something to be absolutely avoided for a wood model.

I see three types of Gorilla brand PVA -

white -probably the same as Elmer's - and maybe Weldbond (really imaginative and enthusiastic ad copy writers)  dries clear

yellow wood glue - looks like Titebond II  water resistant  dries amber

yellow wood glue ultimate  -  looks like Titebond III yellow - water proof  dries amber  the original Titebond III is brown and dries darker

They sell various flavors of CA.  I do not use any type of CA  - but from from discussions here - quality of the brand is probably very important - economy or generic CA is a way to get a poor result and a lot of waste.

 

There seems to be two camps here as far as CA as using an adhesive.

1. Avoid at all costs - old school    toxic, perverse, very poor shelf life after opening  ----   wood to wood: PVA   wood to metal: two part epoxy   natural fiber rigging: bookbinders pH7 PVA 

2. Greatest thing available.

 

Then there is always one of the hide glues especially the hot pot flakes - if you wish to replicate 17th-19th century practice.

 

Edited April 8 by Jaager

[Keith Black]

 I don't like Gorilla because it foams, that just disturbs the heck out of my Inner Tao. 

[Jaager]

9 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said:

it just broke

PVA will hold it  - Gorilla wood glue is PVA -  if it is not visible - scab one one or both sides.

[Keith Black]

 Regarding the broken pieces....this is where I would NOT use CA. In this case I would use a yellow PVA. Once the glue is added and the pieces fitted together, wrap the whole with Saran Wrap, then add supports on either side and clamp. If you don't use the Saran Wrap you WILL permanently glue the supports to the broken pieces once the glue dries.  

[Scottish Guy]

21 minutes ago, Jaager said:

PVA will hold it  - Gorilla wood glue is PVA -  if it is not visible - scab one one or both sides.

 

Thank you Jaager, thought so. Will give it a go.

[Scottish Guy]

20 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 Regarding the broken pieces....this is where I would NOT use CA. In this case I would use a yellow PVA. Once the glue is added and the pieces fitted together, wrap the whole with Saran Wrap, then add supports on either side and clamp. If you don't use the Saran Wrap you WILL permanently glue the supports to the broken pieces once the glue dries.  

 

Thank you for that Keith, didn´t think about the Saran Wrap... I would just have glued it and put some clapms on... thank you for the advise

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

42 minutes ago, Jaager said:

Gorilla glue  is about the worst brand name that you could present as far as determining exactly what type of glue is being discussed.  Given the wide range of products with the name Gorilla, and the probable toxic and hazardous chemical synthesis involved, my guess is that most of their stuff is from core chemical companies - packaged and sold under various brand names - Gorilla being one of them.

 

So you would avoid Gorilla Wood Glue? Now I´m confused lol... the best results I ever had was with Ponal from Henkel but not that easy (cheap) to get in the UK. So the blunt question here... what should I use?

 

1. Gorilla Wood Glue (white)

2. Ponal (white)

3. Titebond (which one explicite II or III)

4. CA glue

 

Edited April 8 by Scottish Guy

[Keith Black]

 Micha, let me clarify a bit here. If you use CA to glue a eye or twisted wire stropped block into the deck, mast, or yard, you'll break something trying to pull it out once dry. If you CA glue a wood edge (pilot house base as an example) to a wood deck, you could pop off the pilot house with a rap to the side or by placing an Xacto chisel blade tip at the edge of the pilot house base and get it to release with a gentle rap. Using PVA wood to wood it's pert near impossible to make it let go without using copious amounts of isopropyl alcohol. You use Acetone to release objects glued with CA. I haven't had any luck gluing painted surfaces no matter what type of glue used unless the painted surfaces have been sealed with polyurethane. I don't have any trouble using CA to glue poly sealed painted surfaces. I don't know if PVA would work as I've never tried but my wee brain thinks it wouldn't. 

 

 As with all methods suggested by us, you need to experiment/test on scrap pieces using our suggestions and see what works best for YOU. 

[Keith Black]

21 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said:

So the blunt question here... what should I use?

 

1. Gorilla Wood Glue (white)

2. Ponal (white)

3. Titebond (which one explicite II or III)

4. CA glue

 

 For what application? Number one I'd toss in the bin, number two I've never used and have no experience, so it's three (Google Titebond II and III and see what the internet reports about the differences) or four, coming back again to the question, what application? 

[Jaager]

16 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said:

So you would avoid Gorilla Wood Glue? Now I´m confused lol...

I would use it - Gorilla WOOD GLUE  is PVA   - white is just fine  -  the yellow is probably Titebond II  which is my choice  -  the yellow Ultimate is probably Titebond III.    I build static, not radio control that takes to water - so waterproof  is overkill.

 

too many varies with "Gorilla" to not be confusing  - first Gorilla product was the foaming stuff  - polyurethane - for patio furniture et al.  expands a joint - really really awful for small model type bonds.

[Jaager]

23 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

I haven't had any luck gluing painted surfaces no matter what type of glue used unless the painted surfaces have been sealed with polyurethane

Another two widely separated schools of practice.

Old school - polyurethane is glossy plastic - too thick -  modern synthetic -   preferred universal primer and overcoat is:  shellac

New school - poly is the go to.

 

23 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

. I don't have any trouble using CA to glue poly sealed painted surfaces. I don't know if PVA would work as I've never tried but my wee brain thinks it wouldn't. 

The CA to poly works because CA will bond to a smooth surface.  But the bond is only as strong as the poly to wood bond.  Pull on it and the poly layer will go with the CA side.

PVA to poly - no bond  -  poly is glassy smooth -  PVA needs tooth, pores, an irregular surface - something that its invasive chains can wrap around or bore into.

Edited April 8 by Jaager

[Keith Black]

13 minutes ago, Jaager said:

Another two widely separated schools of practice.

Old school - polyurethane is glossy plastic - too thick -  modern synthetic -   preferred universal primer and overcoat is:  shellac

New school - poly is the go to.

 I was trying to save Micha from diving down the rabbit hole at this point but it's something he'll encounter soon enough. At 77 I'm a pretty old school kinda guy but I used poly in antique furniture restoration long before I could spell model ship. The biggest plus for me is the protection poly provides, I don't get that sense of protection using shellac. It comes down to personal preference from product usage. 

[Richard44]

Micha,

 

For what it's worth, I used white PVA (the common one here in Aus is Aquadhere) almost exclusively when building the boat. I may have used CA occasionally. Most of the gluing is easy enough. For the planking, I ran a thin bead of glue along the top edge of a plank, clamped (pegs work well) the next plank to it and wiped off excess glue, moving the clamps as required to do this.

 

Good luck with your build.

 

Edit. I should have added this. The only joints on this boat that will be under any sort of stress are those associated with the planking. The planks are already spiled, and if you fit the planks before gluing, the stresses will be minimal. You do not need a super strong glue.

 

Cheers

Edited April 8 by Richard44

[Scottish Guy]

4 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 For what application? Number one I'd toss in the bin, number two I've never used and have no experience, so it's three (Google Titebond II and III and see what the internet reports about the differences) or four, coming back again to the question, what application? 

 

Thank you Keith, I would like to know what kind of glue to use for the keel / stems and support / frame assembly. Also for the planking later on. I used the last 30 years Gorilla Wood Glue (white) or Ponal (which seems the same stuff as Gorilla Wood Glue just from Henkel). I never used Titebond (none of it) before and occasionally CA, mostly for plastic models.

 

Micha

Edited April 9 by Scottish Guy

[Scottish Guy]

4 hours ago, Jaager said:

I would use it - Gorilla WOOD GLUE  is PVA   - white is just fine  -  the yellow is probably Titebond II  which is my choice

 

Thank you Jaager, I will try to find out about the Titebond, otherwise I will try (maybe on some waste wood from the sheets) how the Gorilla Wood Glue (white) works for me. The Titebind III would be maybe overkill for me since I don´t work on remote models nor on floatable (water bound / used) models. I will maybe display it in a scenery like it will be sailing along a shoreline, but that would be most likely a resin underground for dioramas and not real water ^^

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

3 hours ago, Richard44 said:

For what it's worth, I used white PVA (the common one here in Aus is Aquadhere) almost exclusively when building the boat.

 

Thank you Richard, the same here in the UK, the most common one is the white Gorilla Wood Glue, you can get it literally everywhere (Tesco, Asda, B&Q etc.). Also I know it since I work with it for a long time and since everyone agrees with me that it is PVA, I will try it out and stick to it.

 

3 hours ago, Richard44 said:

The only joints on this boat that will be under any sort of stress are those associated with the planking. The planks are already spiled, and if you fit the planks before gluing, the stresses will be minimal. You do not need a super strong glue.

 

Thank you again Richard for this great advise, I will always keep that in mind.

 

Micha