Roar Ege by Scottish Guy - Billing Boats - 1:25

[Scottish Guy]

6 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Micha, this is your first build, not you last. Very few new modelers hit home runs on their first build. I daresay the majority of first builds go into the rubbish bin or are set alight as was my first model when I was very much younger. Take this build for what it is, a learning experience that will make your second build easier and more enjoyable. 

 

Thank you Keith for the kind and honest words. I didn´t expect to do a home run here, it was what it is, a build to learn and an indicator of what I still have to learn. I will even keep this build, despite it is a bad build (in case I can´t somehow fix it) and put it on display in my work room as warning memorial about what I had to learn.

The next build might be better, I hope it will be better because I learnt a lot already and I learnt where my experience is well formed and where I´m missing skills and experience.

 

Micha

[Keith Black]

 The next WILL be better, I promise. 

[Cathead]

2 hours ago, Scottish Guy said:

But what do you mean by using the tunnel vision? I don´t understand this one. Sorry for that.

"Tunnel vision" is an English idiom meaning you focus narrowly on one thing. So the idea here is that you focus only on making this model and don't worry about broader concerns. So it's like your model is in a tunnel and you only look at that, and the tunnel walls block out all the other worries beyond the model. I speak some German but am not sure what the equivalent idiom would be.

[Scottish Guy]

3 minutes ago, Cathead said:

I speak some German but am not sure what the equivalent idiom would be.

 

The GErman equivalent would be "Tunnelblick" and I knew what it means but not explicit in this situation, but now I think I know it. That I shouldn´t think about any future build but only the one I´m building right now. At the moment I don´t think about any new build lol just the Roar Ege.

That´s a lie, I still have in mind about the next model, what kind of ship. But I´m not even sure if the next model would be a plastic or wooden kit. I´m waiting for a 1959 Revell Cutty Sark kit but I would prefer a wooden kit though... so yes,

 

I should focus on the current build, not an anything else at the moment.

 

Micha

[Jaager]

What I mean by tunnel vision in this situation is to focus on building Roar Ege as close to the way that Billing as designed it.  I think that any time and effort spent on trying to augment or add realism would be better spent on a later project.  A time tested, perhaps THE time tested, path into scratch building is to augment a kit with more sophisticated elements.  I think that this particular kit has too much that is too far from real.   It would be like starting in a deep hole.

 

In preparation for composing what is real (or at least my admitted limited knowledge of what is real in Viking practice), I scanned all of the Viking kit build logs.  Which are authentic looking?

At least as far as the hull and the planking - which is pretty much my area of focus.

Realistic seems to be  Marine Models Dragon class solid carved, Dusek Gokstad,  Dusek Knarr, Artesania Latina long boat.  The sheer of all is sort of flat.    Anything but realistic Billing Oseberg, Roar Ege,  and Amati Drakkar.

 

I thought that the impossible planking of Amati: 

and Roar Ege, which is a bit less cartoon -  and pointing out that the planking was freed from Oak trunks/balks using a maul and wedges - I don't see how an individual smith could fabricate a saw.  For your kit, the green box is the plank that this plank would have to be spilled from:

That these extreme - probably for show - stem and stern were large carved timbers - not actual planks: 

And these two links are from logs here:

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/29710-skuldelev-wreck-3-viking-knarr-by-antyronnen-billing-boats-120/   post 4  pic 4

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/20332-viking-longship-by-binho-dusek-scale-172-model-based-on-the-11th-century-skuldelev-2-wreck/  post 1  pic 4

 

That the planks had lands in the carved piece: 

Then I realized that the kits with these extreme curves on their planking were never intended to be realistic.  It is a cynical method to avoid having to deal with providing the proper stemson and sternson.   At least for Roar Ege,  I think that the planks are far too wide.   The extreme twist that includes countervailing  directions for the kit planking at each end  is something that I see as being a frustrating combat for a builder.

 

Being totally outside my Universe,  I am not qualified to rule on which short cuts are acceptable in a kit.

 

Oh,  about one of my POB terminology complaints -  on most POB ships, the central spine fills the midline of the whole hull. Usually it reaches up to the lowest deck being included in the model.  For Roar Ege, that part may only be as much as the actual keel.  In this situation naming it "keel" would be correct.   The possible horrible part would be if it is plywood, with end grain showing where it should not be.

 

😉   This is meant to be fun.   Even if we were part of a university naval architecture department/museum and hair splitting stroum und drang  - actual models are no longer in favor.  Those decisions seem to be in the control of individuals who have the equivalent of a life long continuous release LSD depot somewhere in their body.

 

Edited May 6 by Jaager

[Scottish Guy]

5 hours ago, Jaager said:

What I mean by tunnel vision in this situation is to focus on building Roar Ege as close to the way that Billing as designed it.  I think that any time and effort spent on trying to augment or add realism would be better spent on a later project.

 

Unfortunately I have to agree with you here Dean. The kit is started and is far from reality or being authentic. When checking the replicas that have been built you can see that the Billing Boat has nothing really to do with the real Skuldelev ships expect maybe the shape (which ship doesn´t).

 

5 hours ago, Jaager said:

I think that this particular kit has too much that is too far from real.   It would be like starting in a deep hole.

 

Again I have to agree with you. To get this kit to a level of being somewhat authentic you would have to build it from scratch and shouldn´t use the kit in any way (tbh. you should avoid that kit if you want something authentic). However, I started it and I will finish it but like you said, I will focus on getting it finished, will learn by the mistakes I´ve done and will progress with the next project.

 

 

5 hours ago, Jaager said:

Then I realized that the kits with these extreme curves on their planking were never intended to be realistic.  It is a cynical method to avoid having to deal with providing the proper stemson and sternson.   At least for Roar Ege,  I think that the planks are far too wide.   The extreme twist that includes countervailing  directions for the kit planking at each end  is something that I see as being a frustrating combat for a builder.

 

I don´t understand the intend of these kits since they are not even close of being authentic or realistic. I also don´t understand the intend to make the builders life even harder than it should or could be. There are ways to manufature the kits in a more authentic look and way and it might even make the build easier than these pretty tension to glue planks. Also the spine / keel build could have been much easier than the way they do it. I´m a bit looking forward to the 1:20 kit of Billing Boats called "The Skuldelevs" which seems more authentic than the newer version in 1:25. Not sure yet, since I just had a brief look over the kit, nothing to deep yet.

 

Anyway, I´m very grateful that I was allowed to meet you here Dean. You are a really kind and amazing well of knowledge and wisdom and even more grateful I am that you are willing to share all these knowledge to a beginner in wooden kits. I bow before you for this generous behaviour of you.

 

Micha

[Cathead]

34 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said:

I don´t understand the intend of these kits since they are not even close of being authentic or realistic.

These aren't the only ones, I can point to lots of model kits that are laughably, cartoonishly, unrealistic even when it wouldn't be hard to make them at least reasonably accurate. But my guess is that it isn't felt to pay off to put the extra work into making a model good. Same answer for improved materials.

[Scottish Guy]

3 minutes ago, Cathead said:

These aren't the only ones, I can point to lots of model kits that are laughably, cartoonishly, unrealistic even when it wouldn't be hard to make them at least reasonably accurate. But my guess is that it isn't felt to pay off to put the extra work into making a model good. Same answer for improved materials.

 

I get the point, but then they should name them different. But I somehow I can understand the idea of the manufacturer, they just try to save money and also make as much as possible money out of it. But a bit of authencity would be somehow appreciated especially when they intend to be a kit of historic background.

 

Micha

[Keith Black]

 Micha, look at it this way. Kits are for acquiring the skills necessary to eventually being able to scratch build a model. If you buy a kit that has an accurate hull, you can kit bash that kit into bringing about historical accuracy through the historically correct deck furniture, guns, and rigging. Above all is enjoying doing something in your free time as you journey through life. if it ain't makin' you happy, don't continue to try to pushing string uphill, alter the equation in a manner that puts a smile on your face.    

[BrochBoating]

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Kits are for acquiring the skills necessary to eventually being able to scratch build a model

 

Not for everyone they're not. 

 

Micha I rapidly came to the conclusion that a great deal of kits are junk which haven't been invested in for years, often decades. Modern kits are entirely different but few and far between.

 

[Cathead]

4 hours ago, Keith Black said:

If you buy a kit that has an accurate hull, you can kit bash that kit into bringing about historical accuracy

That's essentially what I did with my Dusek Viking longship. Used the model as a base and made lots of changes to improve the accuracy and appearance. The kit still saved me a lot of effort over scratchbuilding but the result was much better than the out-of-the-box version.

[mtaylor]

I'll kick in with my $.02 (US) for what it's worth.   Kits are basically either something someone wants to build for their mantel or maybe some they just like doing.   For other, they are a starting point to rework the kit into something realist to the actual ship.  Nothing with either reason.  As far as kits go... for example, the Vasa... or Victory.  Lots of them around from different manufacturers.   Accuracy.... is kind of "meh" for almost all of them but are a few that are really detailed and accurate.   Two of the kit makers (Syren and Vanguard) pride themselves on accuracy.   The key is that you get what you pay for and accuracy is one of the variables along with materials.

[Scottish Guy]

Hi folks, just a wee update. I didn´t give up on the project, it´s just a wee break because of my return to work and the garden (that´s the unfortnate circumstance when having a bungalow with front- and back garden. But I will come back and finish the ship for sure.

 

I don´t give up guys, don´t worry...

 

Micha

[BrochBoating]

It's definitely been a week for being outside up here. Garden work maybe not so much fun!

 

[Scottish Guy]

23 minutes ago, BrochBoating said:

It's definitely been a week for being outside up here. Garden work maybe not so much fun!

 

Hi Simon, can hear you. I hate the work I´m doing (painting the fence). Other garden work is fine but painting a fence? Unfortunately it has to be done because the last three years it hasn´t been done

 

Micha

[GrandpaPhil]

But, just think about how nice the fence will look and all the vegetables will taste after they grow.

 

I planted mine yesterday.

Edited Tuesday at 07:24 PM by GrandpaPhil