Roar Ege by Scottish Guy - Billing Boats - 1:25

[GrandpaPhil]

Either way, just have fun with it!  I never worry about the outcome of a model.  The fun for me at least is the crafting and the building.

 

If working on the first one is a lesson in frustration, then build the second one.

 

The Victory in my signature line became a lesson in frustration because my skill level increased exponentially over the build and I am not happy with the start of the model.  I have everything ready to go to finish it, I just haven’t done it.  I moved on to the other builds in my signature line.

 

Build whichever makes you happy.  You can always use the first one for spare parts.

[Scottish Guy]

On 5/29/2024 at 12:37 PM, BrochBoating said:

How did you get on. I'd echo a comment above and ask if, from the outside of the hull are you happy with the flow and look of the planking? If you are then I'd shape those ribs to fit. If not the taking the planking off may be the way to go if you have enough stock to start from scratch.

 

Hi Simon, if asked to be honest I would say, I don´t like the outside of the hull and I don´t like the inside of the hull lol... I don´t like it at all. When I can find a way to take the planks off again I will do so. I got a hint from @Keith Black by using acetone to de-glue the planks. Will try to find a proper way to do so (large basin and loads of acetone) and sink the hull into it.

Not sure if I maybe just should try to fix the ship in the state as it is and finish it by knowing it will never get to a point that I might like it and then start over with the second kit.

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

4 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

If it was me, Micha, I'd write off the first effort as a learning experience and start over with the second kit. 

 

We can all learn from the trials and tribulations of others.  So yes, I like your suggested approach.

 

Hi Glen, thank you for the message. Still thinking if I might give the first build a go but not sure yet. I definitely learnt a lot of this build lol and I hope I will find a proper way for the second build.

 

Thank you for your support and thank you that you would like my second approach.

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

3 hours ago, Paul Le Wol said:

Hi Micha, I’ll appreciate and enjoy seeing your second Roar Ege build log. 

 

Hi Paul and thank you, it´s nice to see that you guys would like to see my second approach.

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

3 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Micha, if I were you, I'd try to fix Roar 1.0 for the learning experience with no expectations of being successful. That way there's no pressure to be successful. Trying to fix 1.0 will pay dividends down stream because you'll have experience knowing what you can do to correct a fault and what you can't do. 

 

Hi Keith, thank you for the comment. I´m still thinking about another try to fix the first build or at least giving it a go to fix it, even if it might end up in a total loss.

 

3 hours ago, Keith Black said:

How to fix is the burning question. Knowing that 1.0 maybe a total loss, you might try soaking the lot in Acetone. Acetone drys very quickly so I don't think it will damage the wood? If the planks do in fact separate you may have a lot of sanding to do. At this point I'd say, nothing ventured, nothing gained.   

 

I will try to find a container / basin large enough to fit the entire hull into it, then I have to find enough acetone to cover up the entire hull. I know it will end up with tons of sanding, still considering if I might just try to finish the build without dismantling the hull but just proceed with the build.

 

Micha

[BrochBoating]

48 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said:

 

Hi Simon, if asked to be honest I would say, I don´t like the outside of the hull and I don´t like the inside of the hull lol... I don´t like it at all. When I can find a way to take the planks off again I will do so. I got a hint from @Keith Black by using acetone to de-glue the planks. Will try to find a proper way to do so (large basin and loads of acetone) and sink the hull into it.

Not sure if I maybe just should try to fix the ship in the state as it is and finish it by knowing it will never get to a point that I might like it and then start over with the second kit.

 

Micha

 

In that case I'd say, if you can, try something else. You will have learnt from this one but it's not worked out and I think that will colour any attempt at salvage. Yes, it can be done, but maybe a bit further down your journey. Personally I think better to chalk it up to experience and try another. Please do though  

 

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, Scottish Guy said:

it´s nice to see that you guys would like to see my second approach.

 Oh, absolutely!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Micha,  you've got me thinking enough to take another look inside the 703 kit box, and made a couple observations:

1.)  The laser cutting is a fine line, and the power tuned back so that there is not too much 'burn' - but then it doesn't quite go thru to the back completely in places.  So putting a sheet on a surface with the back side up, an X-acto knife was carefully (very lightly) run around the perimeter, noting that there are a couple of connecting tabs to partially cut.  Then the sheet was flipped to partially cut the tabs from the front side.  Then the delicate part could drop out almost by itself with no damage.  Care in getting each part out is essential.

 

2.)  I put half rib #4 over the half building form #4 and saw where the form could be marked with a very sharp pointed mechanical pencil to file or cut-out 'saw teeth' to match the corresponding rib.  The lightly burned 'tick marks' on the edge of the form don't seem to correspond to anything, thus shouldbe ignored.

 

  I must get to work soon, but can take a couple pictures that will show better what I mean.  Building the kit in halves may indeed be the way to go - perhaps enhanced by a couple extra building frames notched as above.  Then the planking can be made to fit the notches so later installation of the ribs will go correctly.

[Scottish Guy]

7 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  I must get to work soon, but can take a couple pictures that will show better what I mean.  Building the kit in halves may indeed be the way to go - perhaps enhanced by a couple extra building frames notched as above.  Then the planking can be made to fit the notches so later installation of the ribs will go correctly.

 

Hi Johnny, enjoy work and I would appreciate the pictures because I´m not sure what marks on part 4 you are talking about. I think I know what you mean and if they should be ignored I found my fault. Because I used them as marker to line the planking with those. But I wait for the pictures.

 

Micha

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  OK, I'm back at home now ... really, at 71 (and counting) I'm the 'poster child' for 'retirement' these days.  Since there's some insecurity about outliving what savings we have after some setbacks in the housing 'bubble', I work per-diem as a Pharmacy Technician at our local hospital about on-par with part-time work.  I'm also making hay of late doing much work in the yard and garden (well, this is the time of year to do it), and also some exterior maintenance.  'Thought I'd have to tear down the lawn tractor engine to replace the rod, but it was failing motor mounts that were at fault.  Still had to replace the safety switches, key assy., solenoid, and adjust the valve clearances ... among a host of deferred maintenance - runs like a top now with 24 years on it.

 

  Enough of that,  I took a few pictures to try and clarify my previous comments.  As mentioned, the 'whole hull' jig would be quite a lot of trouble, as the building by halves jig can be vastly improved by notching the frames provided to match the ribs to be inserted later.  Once can also 'bear down' on the fore and aft ends while tapering the ends of the strakes if built in halves.

 

  The first picture is of the BACK of the provided sheet, and you can see that there are plenty of fibers still crossing over the line of laser cutting.  I think that this 'a little less' than full blast method is preferable to 'over char' that you can get some some other kits.  I used a 'pointy' X-Acto knife (with a fresh SHARP blade) to trim around these fibers and also to go about half way (in 2 or 3 soft cuts) through the 'tabs' that hold the part in the matrix so it won't fall out in shipping/handling.  The front face of the tabs are sliced next to free the part.

 

 

  The next picture shows the freed part, which was handled with care ... you've seen how they can get damaged otherwise. 

 

 

  Now for the 'tick marks' ... yeah, I thought they might indicate where the top edge of each plank is supposed to go - but this is NOT the case as will be seen.  They are the inward pointing lightly lasered (they just mark the surface) short lines along the edge.  In order not to mix up parts, I'm numbering them lightly in erasable pencil ... and will also mark the place on the sheet where it came from.  Said sheet can be a template if I want to build the boat in better hardwood ply made up myself from 3 or 4 layers of fine veneer with rotated grain.

 

 

  OK, now for the 'overlay' ... rib half 4 was placed over the building bulkhead half 4  to show where to mark the 'saw tooth' (using the rib as a guide) on the bulkhead that will locate and orient each plank as it is assembled.  One will have to avoid gluing the plank to the bulkhead by not having glue get too near said bulkhead.  (Wood glue will be preferable to CA to prevent 'wicking', and if that bonded planks to the building bulkheads, well, that would be a big complication.) Of course, this leaves one wondering how to mark the notching for the planks above where the rib ends. (I'll get to that.) The notching can be done by first making a thin inward cut with a model train track cutting saw, then paring with an X-Acto along the edge working toward the relief cut just made.

  Gosh, it would have been great if Billing has laser cut the bulkheads halves WITH correct notches.  Still, what is in the kit (with a few caveats) sure beats scratch building.  You just have to look at the glass as 'half full' instead of half-empty.  If life gives you a lemon, make lemonade.

 

 

  I apologize that the next picture is a little out of focus, but you can see that the cross section provided is not to full scale (pity).  But I'll use my copier to scale the drawing up to full size, and used the wood part as a gauge to prove that the size of the adjusted copy is correct.  Then, instead of using the the rib half to mark the notching needed on the building bulkhead, I'll glue a half cross section right to the building bulkhead ... shazaam !  I now will have ALL the notches needed going right up the side of the bulkhead.  Of course, they only provide 3 cross sections, so if I want to make additional bulkheads I'll need to make my own cross sections for those ... but will they be correct?

 

 

 

  The answer for that is that the added bulkheads do not have to go all the way up, but the ribs provided will be templates to make partial building bulkheads - if I go to the trouble to do them.  Having the three critical bulkhead notched will 'set up' the strakes (planks) so that the path to either end will be predetermined.  Its this sort of design work that stimulates my brain cells, so I should take a break from the tedium of making over 100 more rope coils at 1:100 scale on the GF and do some larger work.  I used to be an industrial engineer until made redundant at age 51 - another story I'll skip.

 

  Trimming (profiling) the keel stiffener is also tricky, and I'll have to look into that.  Another idea is to add a little material to the tops of the keel (part 1) forward and aft of the central stiffener (part 3) for the garboard strake to bear against.  Said material has to go between where the ribs will attach, which is why I thought of making additional partial building bulkheads.  With your permission, once I do a half-jig, I can post you pictures of what I came up with - if it will help.

  

 

 

Edited June 4 by Snug Harbor Johnny

[tmj]

 Micha,

I've been eyeballing this model for quite some time. I think I'll build this model with you! I just ordered mine from Model Expo. It should be here Friday, maybe Saturday. 🙂 

[tmj]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:18 AM, Keith Black said:

Micha, tear it back. Remove the planking if possible and see how that goes. If you can't remove the planking maybe we can come up with something that will help you save the build. 

Micha,

I'm a bit behind on your build but will be catching up. I hope that you were able to resolve the problem. 

For whatever it is worth, this sort of thing is where PVA glue sometimes shines. PVA can be softened with heat from an iron and parts can often be 'taken apart' if bad things happen.   

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Found that measuring the #4 rib to the rib size in the section drawing that the wood rib was 125% larger.  Copying at 125% made for a match ... but here's where it gets tricky.  A cut-out of the enlargement (full size on the model) does not match the curvature on the building bulkhead half #4. The enlarged drawing is wider !   Since the strakes are all pre-cut, making a wider bulkhead would cause the provided strakes to be shorter than needed.  This would not be good.  'Guess the cross sections are there primarily for part # identification (also needed), rather than to depict the actual configuration of the assembly (otherwise known as 'true size and shape').  &$$%# !!  

 

  OK - the provided bulkhead has to be used, and the idea of just overlaying an adjusted cross section drawing is out the window.   And notching the bulkheads may be 'out' as well.  I note that each provided strake (and the all have to be the exact one in the correct position relative to the side being built) is a specific width at each bulkhead point.   The position of the 'tick marks' appears to mean where each successive plank ends with respect to the bulkhead.  Some of these are close to where they should be, some a little off (depending on the plank).  The area of overlap (where glue is applied to join the planks along their edges) is raised above the bulkhead by the thickness of the plank beneath.  This will naturally lessen the change of accidental gluing to the bulkhead (unless too much glue is applied, then squeezes out when all those clamps are applied).  It will take considerable study to adjust the tick-marks to the optimal position.

 

  Still, the wooden rib to be installed later is a good guide for those planks nearest the keel on where the tick-mark for them should be.  The garboard plank bears against the extra layer glued to the keel, and represents the 'overlap' in that area.  I'll have to measure each plank at the midpoint and note where the other tick-marks should be adjusted.  Getting this hull planked turns out to be a lot harder than it looks.

[Scottish Guy]

On 6/4/2024 at 11:01 PM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  I apologize that the next picture is a little out of focus, but you can see that the cross section provided is not to full scale (pity).  But I'll use my copier to scale the drawing up to full size, and used the wood part as a gauge to prove that the size of the adjusted copy is correct.  Then, instead of using the the rib half to mark the notching needed on the building bulkhead, I'll glue a half cross section right to the building bulkhead ... shazaam !  I now will have ALL the notches needed going right up the side of the bulkhead.  Of course, they only provide 3 cross sections, so if I want to make additional bulkheads I'll need to make my own cross sections for those ... but will they be correct?

 

Hi Johnny, thank you for your really well done answer and the pictures. Unfortunately it looks like you have a different kit than me lol, the half rib as shown in the (a bit out of focus picture) I don´t have at all. A bit confusing and I still don´t believe that your approach really will work.

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

On 6/5/2024 at 1:26 AM, tmj said:

I'm a bit behind on your build but will be catching up. I hope that you were able to resolve the problem. 

For whatever it is worth, this sort of thing is where PVA glue sometimes shines. PVA can be softened with heat from an iron and parts can often be 'taken apart' if bad things happen.   

 

Hi tmj, Good luck with your kit. YOu won´t be behind because I´m still on halt to figure out what is going on with my two kits. Kit ONE might be considered as waste since I´m not sure if I really can safe it. Unfortunately I used CA for the planking and not PVA, therefore it might be a bit harder to dismantle the build again. I might sink it into a basin with acetone (but I have COPD so I don´t really want the smell in my house or garage). So not sure if this really will be an option, maybe I just adjust the other parts and go on with my build and use kit TWO to open another build LOG and go a complete different route with the build.

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

15 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  'Found that measuring the #4 rib to the rib size in the section drawing that the wood rib was 125% larger.  Copying at 125% made for a match ... but here's where it gets tricky.  A cut-out of the enlargement (full size on the model) does not match the curvature on the building bulkhead half #4. The enlarged drawing is wider !   Since the strakes are all pre-cut, making a wider bulkhead would cause the provided strakes to be shorter than needed.  This would not be good.  'Guess the cross sections are there primarily for part # identification (also needed), rather than to depict the actual configuration of the assembly (otherwise known as 'true size and shape').  &$$%# !!  

 

Hi Johnny, LOST in TRANSLATION... sorry for the joke but you lost me here a bit. I think you overthink the process a bit too much. Not sure if this really will work the way you describe, also not sure if we really have the same kit since you show pictures of parts that are definitely not in my kit. Not sure if it would be advisable to adjust the parts or if it would be worth to duplicate them and then adjust them by shortening them. A build shouldn´t be that complicated and definitely shouldn´t demand such work (since the ship is praised as beginner friendly). This is not a scratch build even if it sometimes feels like one.

 

15 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Still, the wooden rib to be installed later is a good guide for those planks nearest the keel on where the tick-mark for them should be.  The garboard plank bears against the extra layer glued to the keel, and represents the 'overlap' in that area.  I'll have to measure each plank at the midpoint and note where the other tick-marks should be adjusted.  Getting this hull planked turns out to be a lot harder than it looks.

 

I´m telling you this since I started the build lol... the hull is quiet a challenge but I like challenges therefore I try to find a solution, either by adjusting the additional parts to finish the build (as a learning process) and start kit TWO with a complete but newly thought approach (which means thinking BEFORE glueing). But yes, the ship looks easy and is even stated as an entry level but it is not that easy at all. I will manage, even if the first kit just ends up in the bin but the second kit will be definitely a supreme kit *fingers crossed*.

 

Will keep you updated, this and next week are a bit busy, therefore not much progress but after that I will start over again and dig in myself deeply to the knuckles into that issue...

 

Love the chat with you, keeps me going and also gives me some nice ideas.

 

Micha

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

   My apologies for not realizing we had different editions of the kit.  I saw a build log (non-MSW) of a 2005 (1st edition) Roar Ege kit that had plastic ends for the ship's stand, among other differences.  Since that time, there have bound to be tweaks and changes in subsequent editions - and I'm not sure which one I might have.  You are right in that I often overthink things, and I often find my way down rabbit holes, blind alleys and red-herring chases.

  If I can figure out a reasonable way forward with what I have to work with (versus shelving it for later), it will be in a separate log.  Meanwhile, I'll watch what you are able to do with interest.  I did come across one line drawing based on the original (perspective view) that clarifies for me the sort of shaping in the mast step (mast fish?) that Billings gives but slight indications in their paperwork.

  May favorable winds and clear sailing be yours !

 

[tmj]

12 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

You are right in that I often overthink things, and I often find my way down rabbit holes, blind alleys and red-herring chases.

Hmm... you sound a lot like 'ME'! 😶

[Scottish Guy]

21 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

   My apologies for not realizing we had different editions of the kit.  I saw a build log (non-MSW) of a 2005 (1st edition) Roar Ege kit that had plastic ends for the ship's stand, among other differences.  Since that time, there have bound to be tweaks and changes in subsequent editions - and I'm not sure which one I might have.  You are right in that I often overthink things, and I often find my way down rabbit holes, blind alleys and red-herring chases.

 

Hi Johnny, don´t apologise, I just realised that the kits are different, which shouldn´t be the case, but what to expect... and don´t get me wrong, it was not meant to be in a bad way that you overthink, I like that and I often do it myself, but I learnt the hard way that sometimes we just have to accept things the way they are because often other people don´t think enough and mess it up lol... we are then the ones that have to deal with the results LMAO... but I take it we all love our challenges...

 

Micha

[tmj]

I too will have two Billing's 'Roar Ege's! I have a huge stash of older, un-started kits and got to thinking that maybe I should look through my stash. "Guess what I found?" This was an ebay purchase from sometime a while back. The box looks different than yours, and I won't know what the box of my new one will look like until it arrives. Model-Expo doesn't show the box in their advertisement, only pictures of a built model. If anyone knows when this kit was actually being peddled, please let me know. I'm curious.       

[Scottish Guy]

8 hours ago, tmj said:

I too will have two Billing's 'Roar Ege's! I have a huge stash of older, un-started kits and got to thinking that maybe I should look through my stash. "Guess what I found?" This was an ebay purchase from sometime a while back. The box looks different than yours, and I won't know what the box of my new one will look like until it arrives. Model-Expo doesn't show the box in their advertisement, only pictures of a built model. If anyone knows when this kit was actually being peddled, please let me know. I'm curious.       

 

You should get the same box as me though since this is the last version of the kit. Mine look both the same, so I expect that they both are the same. Not opened yet the new box. Your version should be from the early 2000´s while mine is the version from 2020 (new tools - whatever that means lol).

 

Micha

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

I know someone so 'into' this that he's run the 'Longship Company' since the 70s.  Pictured below is the third (and best built) boat, presently located in southern Maryland on the Potomac estuary 9an offshoot of the Chesapeake Bay.  'Thought you's like to see it.