Staghound 1850 by rwiederrich - 1/96 - Extreme Clipper

[ClipperFan]

@Jared

Has the tougher wood worked better for you or are they breaking too? Incidentally completing Stag Hound build within 100 days was a condition of the contract. 

[ClipperFan]

@Jared

Maybe @rwiederrich can give you some tool suggestions to alleviate those problems.

[Jared]

Its hard to say if the new wood is really any stronger.  Where the snapping occurs is on thin spars where a minute hole was drilled.  It just takes an accidental light knock to snap them.  Having limited vision in one eye makes things more accident prone.

 

I am about to pick up again on my model.  All of the smallest diameter spars are waiting my "magic touch".

[ClipperFan]

@Jared have you considered fabricating a jig of sorts to immobilize and protect the section of spar you're attempting to drill? I would also start with the tiniest drill first to create a pilot hole which could then be gradually widened to your desired diameter. Rob has an incredible assortment of such drill bits. Maybe he could give you an idea of where to find some.

[vossiewulf]

Also, you can use small scale carbon fiber rods for doweling. Obviously, they're quite strong for their size. I use .020, .030, and .040" rods for that purpose.

 

[Jared]

Let me clarify.   Drilling itself has not been the problem.  I am using tiny diameter drill bits about the diameter of a pin. Most of the holes are drilled on a dremel drill press where the spares are supported.   The breaks are happening at the ends of the thinnest masts during subsequent handling of the spars or, mire often from accidently hitting a fragile mounted spar with a hand when rigging.   I think I need a few more eyes 🧐.  

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

15 hours ago, Jared said:

Let me clarify.   ...   I think I need a few more eyes 🧐.  

  I could use a few more arms and hands ... like one of those Hindu Gods/Goddesses ... to hold and manipulate items.   Hmmmm,  'wonder what the Admiral might think. 😉 

 

[Jared]

Get a KOTTO Third Hand Soldering Tool.  4 great hands that I find very helpful.. On Amazon. 

[ClipperFan]

16 hours ago, Jared said:

Let me clarify.   Drilling itself has not been the problem.  I am using tiny diameter drill bits about the diameter of a pin. Most of the holes are drilled on a dremel drill press where the spares are supported.   The breaks are happening at the ends of the thinnest masts during subsequent handling of the spars or, mire often from accidently hitting a fragile mounted spar with a hand when rigging.   I think I need a few more eyes 🧐.  

@Jared behind @rwiederrich starboard broadside Glory of the Seas view is a row of over a dozen forceps which Rob has collected from his career as a denturist. These implements are what he uses for his builds. Perhaps this might help you avoid more breaks.

Edited January 18 by ClipperFan
additional information

[Jared]

I am well fixed with all the small tools for rigging.   Thanks.  Having fragile spars being evenly supported is a must when fitting them with eye bolts and the like.  More importantly knowing where both hands are at all times in relation to the pertruding mounted spars is key. 

[rwiederrich]

On 1/18/2025 at 1:33 PM, Jared said:

I am well fixed with all the small tools for rigging.   Thanks.  Having fragile spars being evenly supported is a must when fitting them with eye bolts and the like.  More importantly knowing where both hands are at all times in relation to the pertruding mounted spars is key. 

Sorry for the vary long absence .  family and moving stuff around...takes time.  I'm not all back together again...but getting there. 

 

I see what you are talking about.  when you drill a hole through a thin mast or yard...the point where you drilled becomes vary thin and fragile.  especially along the edges on either side of the new drilled hole.  this hole make the remaining material very weak and apt to breakage.  What I do in this case is drill the hole.....then...fill the hole with CA glue.  letting it set hard by using an accelerator.  I then redrill out the hole.  The Cured CA strengthens the fibers of the wood on either side of the hole by soaking into the wood fibers and aids in preventing the wood from fracturing again at this point.

 

Rob

[Jared]

Thanks Rob for this great tip.

[rwiederrich]

12 minutes ago, Jared said:

Thanks Rob for this great tip.

You're welcome.  It's not a sure fix for the skilled and motivated modeler, who has a routined propensity for damaging their own models.    We do what we can do.....

[Rick310]

54 minutes ago, Jared said:

Thanks Rob for this great tip.

Rob, that’s a great idea!

arick

[Luis Felipe]

Hi Gentlemen, will be feasible to obtain a copy of this laser cut pieces? Will help a lot in my upcoming Staghound project.

[ClipperFan]

On 1/23/2025 at 2:18 PM, Luis Felipe said:

Hi Gentlemen, will be feasible to obtain a copy of this laser cut pieces? Will help a lot in my upcoming Staghound project.

@Luis Felipe

send a DM to @Vladimir_Wairoa to see if he can get you a copy from his supplier in Europe. 

[ClipperFan]

On 1/21/2025 at 10:11 AM, rwiederrich said:

Sorry for the vary long absence .  family and moving stuff around...takes time.  I'm not all back together again...but getting there. 

 

I see what you are talking about.  when you drill a hole through a thin mast or yard...the point where you drilled becomes vary thin and fragile.  especially along the edges on either side of the new drilled hole.  this hole make the remaining material very weak and apt to breakage.  What I do in this case is drill the hole.....then...fill the hole with CA glue.  letting it set hard by using an accelerator.  I then redrill out the hole.  The Cured CA strengthens the fibers of the wood on either side of the hole by soaking into the wood fibers and aids in preventing the wood from fracturing again at this point.

 

Rob

Rob, that's an excellent suggestion from a 40 year veteran modeler. One which never even occurred to me!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Luis, I could arrange that for you i guess. Vlad

how is everyone doing? 

Edited February 5 by Vladimir_Wairoa
add

[Luis Felipe]

Hi Wladimir, that will be excellent, please tell me what do I need to do, thanks, saludos, LFG

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

On 2/6/2025 at 7:08 PM, Luis Felipe said:

Hi Wladimir, that will be excellent, please tell me what do I need to do, thanks, saludos, LFG

You got PM Luis. V. 

[rwiederrich]

A little bump to the thread. I'm sorry I have been very inactive on this build as of late.....My daughters house purchase fell through....so she and her's are back home. I've been tackling the new roof install on my garage....so that too has held me up. And now its getting to spring...which means loads of yard work and outdoor activities. I hope to get back into the shop and organize my modeling thoughts...once again....soon.

I hope everyone is having a smooth new year and coming spring.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

https://collectionsonline.southstreetseaportmuseum.org/artobject-detail/?dataId=934479&sortBy=Title%20desc&pageNo=1

 

South Street Seaport Museum, New York has the best Staghound painting by James Edward Buttersworth. I recognize she's referred to as Stag Hound but in his piece and the label affixed to the frame it's a single word. I've read in the Time-Life Seafarer Series book on Clippers that the full title of this work is "Staghound shortening sail ahead of an approaching gale." It's a beautiful piece full of dramatic action. The oncoming storm is to the far left of the scene and it appears there's a downpour accompanying it. While this is a wonderful piece, deck furnishings aren't accurate when compared to the Boston Daily Atlas.

FYI: just below the full-size framed image is a smaller one with arrows. Those lead to a few larger close up detailed scenes of this stunning work.

 

Edited April 5 by ClipperFan
added info

[Rick310]

Clipperfan, do you have a photo of the painting?

Rick

[ClipperFan]

21 hours ago, Rick310 said:

Clipperfan, do you have a photo of the painting?

Rick

@Rick310 I was able to download all images from the link I shared to my laptop. Since the museum has a policy about not publishing their images without permission, I didn't upload them. 

[rwiederrich]

On 4/7/2025 at 3:39 AM, ClipperFan said:

@Rick310 I was able to download all images from the link I shared to my laptop. Since the museum has a policy about not publishing their images without permission, I didn't upload them. 

As with Glory of the Seas...I will be using an image to model my likeness....and I chose this painting.  I plan on modeling her exactly as depicted in the painting,

 

How fun.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

@rwiederrich that will be quite a lively model depiction! Did you ever resolve the outer fore width of Stag Hound's rear poop deck? Since the central apartment width was 13 feet and fore starboard captain's cabin was 12 feet, I naturally calculated the starboard was an equal 12 feet. That makes the total forward width 27 feet. Does that look right on your deck?

[rwiederrich]

22 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

@rwiederrich that will be quite a lively model depiction! Did you ever resolve the outer fore width of Stag Hound's rear poop deck? Since the central apartment width was 13 feet and fore starboard captain's cabin was 12 feet, I naturally calculated the starboard was an equal 12 feet. That makes the total forward width 27 feet. Does that look right on your deck?

I think some fudging will need to take place.  My initial measurments.....made the premade fixtures appear too large...but Staghound was a much smaller and sharper vessel then was Glory of the Seas...which I still have rattling around my brain.   Further evaluations will happen after I get the hull planked.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Lars Bruzelius' site is currently inaccessible so I'm reciting these dimensions from memory. According to Duncan McLean, the aft end of the poop deck was 24 1/2 feet wide at 8 feet forward of the taffrail. With a 44 foot overall poop deck length, 36 feet further forward, she's only 2 1/2 feet wider. That shouldn't be so dramatic.

Edited April 10 by ClipperFan
added info

[sob]

Hi, this is Scott Bradner.  

 

A friend pointed me at this blog when he noticed that there had been some discussion about my plans for the Flying Cloud that I posted. https://www.sobco.com/ship_model/fc/Flying_Cloud_plans_bradner.html In particular, he pointed me to a discussion about naval hoods from about a year ago.  The question being ‘Did the Flying Cloud have naval hoods?’

 

Until I read the discussion, I had never heard of naval hoods and I could not figure out from the discussion just what they were, so I did some research.  I found mention of naval hoods in a number of documents published in the late 1800s. They generally indicated that naval hoods had something to do with the hawse pipes. For example: 

 

“Navel Hoods. Those hoods wrought above and below the hawseholes, outside a ship, where there are no checks to support a bolster.” (Sailor's Word-Book: An Alphabetical Digest Nautical Terms, 1867)

 

The best reference I found was in “An Outline of Ship Building” by T D Wilson, published in 1880.  (Available from the Internet Archive.)  This document mentions naval hoods in a number of places, most detailed on page 243  it also has a useful drawing on page 422 . 

 

The description on page 243 of this book is: 

“The naval-hoods are the filling pieces placed between the cheek-knees extending to the rabbet of the stem, on which the outer flanges of the hawse-pipes rest.

The trail-boards abut against the naval-hoods and run up to the billet; they are carved or plain, to correspond with the finish of the billet. They are mitred where they abut the naval-hoods, and are secured with screws, so that they can be removed to caulk the hood ends”

 

And here is the drawing:

 

The text and the drawing (along with all of the other descriptions I found) make it clear that the naval hoods are constrained to be right around the hawse pipe(s).  If the ship has trail boards, they extend from the naval hoods up to the billet or figurehead. Note that Duncan McLean’s detailed article about the launching of the Flying Cloud specifically said that the ship did not have trail-boards.

 

The photo that was used in the discussion on this list was of the bow of the Glory of the Seas:

Based on the definitions I found in the 1880’s documents and the description and drawing in Wilison, I do not see naval hoods in the Glory photo.

 

It seems to me that naval hoods on a ship that does not have trail-boards, such as the Flying Cloud, would be short beams below, above or both, the hawse pipe(s).  The Glory photo does not show any such beams. It does show the bottom edge of the trail-board close to the top of the hawse pipe but it does not look like it could be used to support the hawse pipe in any way.

 

In my searching  have not found any evidence that the Flying Cloud did have naval hoods. But even if she did, they would likely not be visible, just like the photo of the Glory shows.

 

Well, that is what I understood from the references I found.  Please let me know if I’ve misunderstood what naval hoods were.

 

 

[BANYAN]

Hi Rob, I am speaking with experience from a much later period (late 20th century).  We also referred to 'naval hoods' as the metal hoods (covers) put over the top of the naval pipes once the cable was stowed/run out.  Some ships had an angled entry/cover built-in as part of the pipe which simply required a cover plate put on.  Other ships had a full hood that was partially inserted into the upper part of the pipe over the cable at the upper deck level. They were used to stop/minimise water entering the cable lockers through the naval pipes (metal trunks from deck through the deck(s) to the lockers).  Perhaps an 'interpretation thing?

 

cheers

 

Pat