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Posted

Hey guys & gals,

 

Hoping to get a conversation going for some advice on my next kit, or maybe just point me in the right direction? I have a few kits under my belt now (Occre Polaris & Golden Hind, Model Shipways 3-part collection, and about 75% done with the Vanguard Sherbourne).

 

My goal when starting this hobby initially was to work upwards in terms of scale and complexity, and every kit has been challenging it its own way so far. Can't say enough good things about the Vanguard Sherbourne, the precut parts and lines make construction simplified. 

 

For my next build, I was leaning toward something Brig sized, and was looking at a few options that might be in my wheelhouse both size and complexity wise:

 

  • Caldercraft's Brig Badger (LOVE the history with this one)
  • Caldercraft's Brig Supply
  • Model Shipways Brig Fair American
  • Vanguards Brig Flirt
  • Vanguards Speedy
  • US Brig Syren (LOVE the history on this one too. I'm from the US so leaning this way). 

 

Overall I'm leaning toward the Syren, and have gone through quite a many build logs here. Some of the logs give me confidence, while some give me pause. Is it wise to build something "intermediate" before tackling something like the Syren? Or just dive right into one? I know what it takes now to finish these kits, and am not daunted by time or cost. 

 

Quality of materials and instructions is also important to me, as I'm not quite new, but also not experienced enough to take things on without proper resources and good quality material. Happy to replace any lackluster parts with "aftermarket" additions as well.

 

So maybe hoping that someone tells me that I'm crazy for diving into something that complex, or validates. Either way. 

 

Appreciate you guys taking a moment to read this, I love the community here!

 

Thanks,

 

Ron

Current Build:

HMS Sherbourne - Vanguard Models

 

Completed Builds:

Polaris - OcCre

Golden Hind - OcCre

Posted

My $0.02 worth:

  • Badger and Supply will both make beautiful models, but they are dated designs. Chris Watton designed them, but his newer designs from Vanguard Models are much improved. I think you will find either of the Caldercraft kits like taking a step backward in terms of kit quality.
  • Fair American also makes a nice model, but Model Shipways kits generally provide you with far fewer pre-cut parts than a Vanguard design. The builder is expected to make many parts using measurements taken directly from the plans. Model Shipways also uses more off-the-shelf fittings than Vanguard.
  • You can't go wrong with Flirt or Speedy.
  • Syren was designed by our very own Chuck Passaro, but the kit is manufactured by Model Shipways, so I think some of the caveats about Model Shipways kits may apply, although Chuck can give you a much better answer on that. Chuck has also written a very detailed practicum for that kit, and we have seen multiple fine finished examples of it here at MSW.

Other than that, if you can build a cutter successfully, than you should be ready for a brig.

 

Cheers!

Chris Coyle
Greer, South Carolina

When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
- Tuco

Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, Mitsubishi A6M5a, WAK SBLim-2A

Richard44's SBLim-2A build

Posted
34 minutes ago, BurgundyModels said:

So maybe hoping that someone tells me that I'm crazy for diving into something that complex, or validates. Either way. 

Nobody can tell you what you are truly capable of accomplishing... not even yourself! If you find something that you like, "Go for it!" Take your time and advance your skills as you go. Practice any new operations that you are unsure about using scrap materials first. Odds are that you'll do just fine on any model that you choose! Confidence is a big thing, and confidence comes from building upon past accomplishments via new endeavors. Don't view the somewhat more advanced skill level of the Syren as something to be afraid of... see it as your newest achievable 'goal' to take on! 🙂

 

"Our doubts are traitors that make us lose the good that we oft might win by our fears to even attempt!"

    ... William Shakespeare

"The journey of a thousand miles is only the beginning of a thousand journeys!"

 

 

 

 

 

Posted

@ccoyle I absolutely appreciate the $.02, and what you wrote certainly tracks with a lot of the posts I've been reading here. I was afraid that when I picked up a Vanguard kit it would spoil me in terms of design and quality! Badger certainly grabs my eye for the historical quality, and while definitely not on par with the Vanguard stuff, I'm hoping a decent enough experience? I wasn't able to find the instruction manuals like the ones readily provided by OcCre and Vanguard.

 

I once read here that the Syren doubles as a teaching kit, which also has me leaning in that direction. 

 

@tmj I appreciate the vote of confidence! Anything new we take on is certainly daunting at first, but as I've seen with so many build logs here, anything is achievable with some patience and practice. 

 

Current Build:

HMS Sherbourne - Vanguard Models

 

Completed Builds:

Polaris - OcCre

Golden Hind - OcCre

Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, BurgundyModels said:

Badger certainly grabs my eye for the historical quality, and while definitely not on par with the Vanguard stuff, I'm hoping a decent enough experience? I wasn't able to find the instruction manuals like the ones readily provided by OcCre and Vanguard.

 

Here you go! The manuals of the Badger, Pickle, Granado, Victory and William are to download from the site of Jotika/Caldercraft

http://www.jotika-ltd.com/Pages/1024768/Manuals_Badger.htm

Edited by Ronald-V

                                                                  Currently working on the HMS Sphinx from Vanguard Models

Posted (edited)

Given what you’ve already built, I would say that you could pick any of those models and build them without significant difficulty.

 

I have heard really good things about the Vanguard Models kits.  Chris Watton’s work is excellent!  I have purchased many of the plans sets that he designed for the Victory Models line belonging to Amati, to include the Revenge that is in my signature line.  They are top notch, and his own company, Vanguard Models, takes things even further (although I have not had one of their kits in my possession).  From what I have heard and seen on this forum, Vanguard’s kits are second to few.

 

Model Shipways makes decent quality kits.  I have built one of their models, the Sultana, and I have a couple of their plans sets, which are very good, although I liked the Rattlesnake plans better than the Essex plans.

 

The Syren looks like a phenomenal kit, and that plans set is on my short list of models to buy the next time I need to get something for myself.  The designer is Chuck Passaro, whose work is also excellent!

 

I have no experience with Caldercraft’s kits, but many also like them.

Edited by GrandpaPhil

Building:

1:200 Russian Battleship Oryol (Orel card kit)

1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans)

1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships)

Posted

@Ronald-V hey thank you! Those aren't so bad. I've heard a mixed bag about Caldercraft stuff but have never built one of their kits myself. Your Sphinx build is coming along great. I am eager to develop the skills to tackle something like that!

 

@GrandpaPhil the really good things are certainly true. Granted my experience is somewhat limited only having bought kits from a few companies now, the Vanguard stuff really does stand out. 

Current Build:

HMS Sherbourne - Vanguard Models

 

Completed Builds:

Polaris - OcCre

Golden Hind - OcCre

Posted

I'd probably do another Vanguard Model. I actually bought the Duchess of Kingston and that's now in my stash because I decided to build some of the smaller Vanguard fishing boats - currently working on the Ranger. I wanted more practice on hull planking and want to make my mistakes - like I did yesterday - on a model that isn't as expensive and doesn't take a couple of years to build. I have the US Brig Syren in my stash - my sons bought it for me. The instructions are great and complete but it's certainly an "old school" kind of model as @ccoyle noted, where you need to build lots of things from scratch. I'm trying to add a few "scratch" things - or at least deviations from the instructions - on the models I'm building now. When I do the Syren, I'll probably buy a bunch of material and parts from https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com since the materials (and QA) in Model Expo / Model Shipways kits is kind of middling (certainly compared to Vanguard Models).

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BurgundyModels said:

@Ronald-V hey thank you! Those aren't so bad. I've heard a mixed bag about Caldercraft stuff but have never built one of their kits myself. Your Sphinx build is coming along great. I am eager to develop the skills to tackle something like that!

Thanks for your compliment! I built the HMS Pickle from Caldercraft as my first model. I was certainly satisfied with the quality and e.g. the manual. (as a beginner, later you begin to understand what's wrong with it :P ) It is true that the newer kits from Caldercraft such as the Pickle, Badger etc. have these more extensive manuals. The older ones not, they are much more basic

 

But it cannot be compared to Vanguard models. That is really a step up in terms of manual and quality of materials.

 

So you also have to ask yourself... what do I find a nice subject to build? Is the quality of the kit and manual good enough for me? Am I prepared to replace parts, which can be a nice challenge. Or do I not find that so important, and do I just want to build something nice. You can find interesting challenges in all the kits you mentioned. 

Edited by Ronald-V

                                                                  Currently working on the HMS Sphinx from Vanguard Models

Posted

I'm currently building the Vanguard Speedy kit and its a great kit, instructions are very good and the materials are fantastic.  I have the Syren kit in my stash, the instructions look really good and I could probably learn a lot by just reading through them, but I was somewhat let down by the quality of materials in the kit.

Current Build

HMS Speedy, Vanguard Models

 

Finished Builds:

HMS Sphinx, Vanguard Models 1:64 Scale

HMS Beagle

Posted

All the responses are appreciated, thank you everyone for contributing, I love chatting kits! This is my second post looks for kit recommendations, and I've gotten some really great insights from the wonderful community here. 

 

@palmerit thank you for the input! I've followed quite a few of your builds, and love the amount of thought and detail you put into your kits. I think you're on the right track. The "old school" nature of the Syren and the amount of scratchbuilding needed is somewhat daunting, but I might keep it as my "white-whale" for now. When I finally do jump into it, I may go all out and order up all new blocks and line as I've seen others here do.

 

2 hours ago, Ronald-V said:

So you also have to ask yourself... what do I find a nice subject to build? Is the quality of the kit and manual good enough for me? Am I prepared to replace parts, which can be a nice challenge. Or do I not find that so important, and do I just want to build something nice. You can find interesting challenges in all the kits you mentioned. 

 

@Ronald-V I think this is what it's going to come down. I'm certainly ready for the challenge, and probably put some of these kits on a pedestal. Skill-wise I'm fairly sure I'll be able to dive into anything at this point, but sometimes I get too caught up in what kit I "should" do for learning purposes, and lose sight of the fact that building something you love and enjoy should be the primary driving factor. Syren might be my future project, because I love the history of it to a point where I want to do it right.

 

@brunnels love your Beagle build! I learned quite a bit just going through the log. The attention to detail is superb. After looking over the Speedy, it shot very high up my list! And who can forget the amazing little history of that ship.

 

In short, I'm going to choose a kit with good historical relevance while offering a good challenge. May be another stepping stone on my way to building out that fully kitted Syren of my dreams!

Thanks everyone.

 

-Ron

Current Build:

HMS Sherbourne - Vanguard Models

 

Completed Builds:

Polaris - OcCre

Golden Hind - OcCre

Posted
7 hours ago, GrandpaPhil said:

I have no experience with Caldercraft’s kits, but many also like them.

 

4 hours ago, BurgundyModels said:

I've heard a mixed bag about Caldercraft stuff but have never built one of their kits myself.

 

I really enjoyed working on Caldercraft's Ballahoo

Gregg

 

Current Projects:                                                             Completed Projects:                                                                 Waiting for Shipyard Clearance:

 Santa Maria Caravelle 1:48 - Ships of Pavel Nikitin     Norwegian Sailing Pram 1:12 - Model Shipways                    USS Constitution 1:76 - Model Shipways

                                                                                              Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack 1:24 - Model Shipways        Yacht America Schooner 1851 1:64 - Model Shipways 

                                                                                              H.M. Schooner Ballahoo 1:64 - Caldercraft                             RMS Titanic 1:300 - OcCre (May now never get to it)

                                                                                              Bluenose 1921 1:64 - Model Shipways

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