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Posted
58 minutes ago, TBlack said:

OK, OK, this thread has caught my imagination, not to mention that it’s another Keith Black original. I’m in!

Thank you for joining in, Tom. It's always good to have family taking part in the journey. 

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted
9 hours ago, Jim Lad said:

A very 'homey' looking working paddle steamer, Keith. She'll make a great model.

 Thank you, John. I look forward to this project but it has to wait till I finish the barge in the Susquehanna River build. 

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

I note that very few mosquito fleet steamers were coal fired; they were almost all wood fired right up until oil fire technology became serviceable, and nearly all steamers were oil fired after that point.  Even the big fast steamers like the Flyer burned wood.

 

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mdulaney said:

I note that very few mosquito fleet steamers were coal fired; they were almost all wood fired right up until oil fire technology became serviceable, and nearly all steamers were oil fired after that point.  Even the big fast steamers like the Flyer burned wood.

 

Would you please provide the reference source from which you derived this conclusion as my research indicated that once coal was discovered and developed, coal became the primary fuel source for the Mosquito Fleet.

 

 Early coal development.  https://www.historylink.org/File/5158

 

 From  https://www.historylink.org/file/869

 

"Initially, wood was the fuel of choice, but it was replaced by more efficient coal and later by oil. (In the 1890s, King and Pierce counties produced about a million tons of coal annually. "

 

  Thank you for posting. 

 

    Keith

Edited by Keith Black

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

I showed this thread to Ed Brown, Senior Docent of the Virginia V Foundation, and they offered this writeup:

 

Zephyr was built in 1871 for Captain Tom Wright. 100 foot, and made two trips a week from Seattle to Mukilteo, Tulalip, and Snohomish. She ran on the off days against the steamer Chehalis, and arrived in Seattle just after the steamer North Pacific came in so that passengers could make connections. 1873 Merchants Transportation Company is formed, with Zephyr becoming one of their ships. Her route is moved to Seattle-Tacoma- Steilacoom- Olympia, with trips to Snohomish once a week. In 1876, new river steamers appear on the Snohomish (Nellie and Fanny Lake), so the Zephyr is placed on Seattle-Olympia service full time. Two round trips a week. Flag stops could be made on Vashon. Settlers would raise a flag on shore, Zephyr (or the steamer Messenger) would then stop and the passenger would be rowed out to the boat. Zephyr was known to be fast (for her time), beating the famous sidewheeler Eliza Anderson in a race, as well as the propellor steamer Blakely. In 1881, schedules show that the Zephyr was leaving Seattle Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays at 7am (with the Messenger running on alternate days)

 
This account from “Pacific Steamboats” by Gordon Newell: When the Zephyr was running to Olympia, she carried a lot of Politicians (as Olympia was the territorial capitol, and is now the state Capitol). At that time, she was known as the Wawa boat (Wawa meaning ‘Talk’ in Chinook Jargon). “Any politician worth his salt could be heard a quarter of a mile against the wind” For a while, Zephyr left the passenger trade and was outfitted with giant water tanks. With these, she would go to the tallships at anchor in harbor to refill their fresh water. After that, she became a towboat for the Tacoma Lumber Mill company. In Shelton one evening, while tied to the dock, a new deckhand fresh from the logging camps was told to fill the tanks. The deckhand placed the hose into the massive water supply tanks, turned the water on, and left for the bar. Several hours later, the crew returned to find the Zephyr at the bottom of the harbor, the hose still pumping. Zephyr was raised after that, to continue towing logs, but was sold in 1907 to a scrapper. She was burned on the beach in Ballard. Deliberate burning was the most common method of disposing of wooden Mosquito Fleet steamers. Once the fire was out, the ashes would be sifted through for metal for recycling.
 

Most early Mosquito Fleet steamers (pre-1900) were wood burners, since wood was plentiful and very cheap. Many farmers made an extra buck by chopping cordwood and leaving it out on docks for steamers to collect. Though not as energy efficient as coal, cordwood was everywhere and very inexpensive. The steamship Flyer was known to burn 24 cords a day, with a firebox large enough for 2 cords at once. She was converted to oil burning in 1906. About 1905, oil-burning boilers started to become available, and nearly all steamers made the switch. While there were coal burners on Puget Sound, they were never the majority.

 

Sources:

Roland Cary ('Isle of the Sea Breezers' 'Steamboat Landing on Elliot Bay' 'The sound and the Mountain')

Gordon Newell, 'Pacific Steamboats'

Wilbur Thompson & Allen Beach, 'Steamer to Tacoma'

Posted

@mdulaney, MD, first i want to thank you for showing Ed Brown this thread and posting same. Second I want to thank Ed for the write up. 

 

 

The following facts derived using Douglas Fir as the wood species. 

 

 The size of a cord of wood is 128 cu ft, 4 x 4 x 8 feet. A cord of dry Douglas Fir weighs approximately 3,000 pounds. It requires two, 12 inch diameter x 20 foot logs to produce a cord of wood.

 

The size of a ton of coal is 36 cu ft, 3 x 3 x 4 feet.

 

 The cost of a cord of wood in Seattle in 1890 was between $2.00 and $4.00. The cost of coal in Seattle in 1890 was between $5.00 and $7.00 per ton. 

 

 The heat energy of a ton of coal equals 1.5 cords of wood.

 

 

 Fuel usage: 

 

 A 100 foot sternwheeler operating in Puget Sound would require approximately between 1,000 and 2,000 pounds of coal or 1.5 to three cords of wood per hour. 

 

 24 hour operations using coal at a rate of 1,500 pounds per hour equals a weight of 36,000 pounds per 24 hour period with a storage requirement of 648 cu ft. At a cost of $6.00 per ton, 24 hour operating cost equals $108.00

 

  24 hour operations using wood at a rate of two cords per hour equals a wood weight of 144,000 pounds per 24 hour period with a storage requirement of 6,144 cu ft. At a cost of $3.00 per cord,  24 hour operating cost equals $144.00

 

 The Bailey Gatzert could use up to three cords of wood per hour.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_Gatzert_(sternwheeler)

 

 

 

 Based on the above, coal was the better choice of fuel both practically and economically. I don't understand why a sternwheeler built in 1890 would be designed to use wood as a fuel source? 

 

 

  

 

Seattle's first railroad was built specifically to transport coal from mines to the port.
 

. The Seattle Coal & Transportation Company built the first line, a tram and ferry system, which began operating in March 1872 to haul coal from the Newcastle mines. This was followed by the Seattle & Walla Walla Railroad, the first proper steam-powered railroad, which also hauled coal from the Newcastle mines to Elliott Bay and was highly profitable. 

 

Seattle Coal & Transportation Company: This company built the first railroad in the area, a system of trams and barges, to move coal from the Newcastle mines to a dock on Lake Union and then to bunkers at the foot of Pike Street by 1872.

 

Seattle & Walla Walla Railroad: A steam-powered railroad that began operating in 1873, extending 21 miles from Steele's Landing on the Duwamish River to the Newcastle coal mines. It was highly profitable from transporting coal to Elliott Bay piers and helped establish Seattle as an economic center.

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

Great writeup, Keith, I'm also curious about that. As I think I posted much earlier in this thread, the kind of softwoods highly available in the PNW are terrible fuel in comparison to coal, or even the hardwood oak/hickory/maple forests we Midwesterners are used to. Obviously better than nothing but I sure agree that it would make sense to switch to coal fast once available, as railroads widely did. The primary reason I can think of otherwise is simply that wood was available anywhere for refueling, whereas using coal would still require the establishment of specific coaling stations (assuming there was no tender system). For a vessel roaming a very large inland waterway that was still fairly remote, I wonder if the ease of refueling anywhere trumped the fuel efficiency of geographically limited coal supplies? The same was true for  both steamboats and railroads; the switch to coal made sense but did require the establishment of a whole separate system for transporting and restocking fuel in depots from extractive point sources, whereas wood could be acquired locally just about anywhere, at least in the eastern half of the country.

 

Fun question.

Posted
3 hours ago, Cathead said:

Great writeup, Keith, I'm also curious about that.

 Thank you, Eric.

 

i've mulled this over in my mind all morning and maybe, it purely physiological. Everywhere one looked in the PNW, there was a ready supply of fuel. Coal on the other hand was buried deep underground and had to be dragged to the surface and often times brought to a stop because of striking miners. That was never the case with wood as it was too easily had. 

 

 When I lived in Kittitas County in the 70's we bought a house in Thorp, Washington where we used wood for heating, cooking and for making hot water for bathing and washing. And yes, I was a hippie living the dream. :)  It took ten cords of wood (primarily Doug fir) a year for our fuel needs. There was a great feeling of freedom standing next to ten cords of split wood when frost covered the windows on early October mornings.

 

   keith

 

 

 

 I've inserted links throughout this log thus far, if I've posted this one before, my apologies. 

 

https://blackdiamondhistory.wordpress.com/2023/09/08/when-coal-was-king-on-puget-sound/

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted (edited)
On 10/17/2025 at 1:44 PM, clearway said:

This one sneaked under my radar Keith- another interesting subject- you will be able to build stern paddle wheels blindfolded before much longer😜.

 

It looks like paddle steamers are to you what polar exploration vessels are to me!

 Thank you for following along, Keith. Maybe you could help me out of this sternwheeler rut by popping over to Mathewsons and see what they have in the way of prewar cycle wing sports cars. :)

Edited by Keith Black

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted
On 10/17/2025 at 12:16 PM, Keith Black said:

When I lived in Kittitas County in the 70's we bought a house in Thorp, Washington where we used wood for heating, cooking and for making hot water for bathing and washing. And yes, I was a hippie living the dream

We still heat primarily with wood, along with solar hot water & electric panels, and a passive-solar house design. And now do a fair amount of our cooking with wood, too, after completing our outdoor kitchen project. We're far from hippies but very much living the dream in our own way.

 

Back on topic, overall I suspect the ease of wood won the day for a long time. You could also argue the same dynamics for various other fuel transitions, such as that from sail to coal/oil. Yes, coal/oil is far superior overall, but suddenly navies and merchant fleets went from a universal free fuel to one that had to be extracted, hauled, stockpiled, and protected globally. Even the concept of an EV transition faces the same challenge: gas is functionally as ubiquitous as wood was to a 19th century steamboat, whereas charging stations are still lacking across much of the country in the same way that early fuel depots were.

Posted
On 10/18/2025 at 2:12 PM, clearway said:

wow they are nice 

 Yes they are, Keith. They were a passion that burned bright till I retired and the money dried up. That old passion bubbles to the surface when I watch episodes of Bangers and Cash. :) 

 

On 10/19/2025 at 2:45 PM, Cathead said:

We still heat primarily with wood, along with solar hot water & electric panels, and a passive-solar house design. And now do a fair amount of our cooking with wood, too, after completing our outdoor kitchen project. We're far from hippies but very much living the dream in our own way.

  There's nothing like heating with wood, the smell and the warmth produced feels much better than gas or electric heat.

 

On 10/19/2025 at 2:45 PM, Cathead said:

I suspect the ease of wood won the day for a long time. You could also argue the same dynamics for various other fuel transitions, such as that from sail to coal/oil. Yes, coal/oil is far superior overall, but suddenly navies and merchant fleets went from a universal free fuel to one that had to be extracted, hauled, stockpiled, and protected globally. Even the concept of an EV transition faces the same challenge: gas is functionally as ubiquitous as wood was to a 19th century steamboat, whereas charging stations are still lacking across much of the country in the same way that early fuel depots were.

 I'm having a difficult time finding information on this subject as it relates to the Mosquito Fleet. Coal being more efficient and cheaper in the long run makes me wonder why coal wasn't embraced particularly considering it was mined right there. I can't find anything on coal tenders in the Puget Sound during that time period. Tis a mystery to me.:unsure:

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted (edited)

 Because the Mosquito Fleet operated in Puget Sound I maybe changing the mystery sternwheeler's area of operations to Lake Washington. 

 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Washington_steamboats_and_ferries

 

 The sternwheeler towboat Lena C. Gray was built in the 1870's and operated on Lake Washington towing barges. In my mind I see the Gray as being the type of sternwheeler towboat I'm most familiar with both in design (including knees) and operations.

 

 To my eye it appears the main deck is like those found on sternwheelers operating on rivers and harbors in the East.  

image.jpeg.1b6669b31de8d2e53e0e4f8b382a4066.jpeg

 

 I took a shine to this particular sternwheeler because of it's quirkiness and it's boxcar red color. I'm also captivated trying to figure out what the heck the mystery object is on the mystery sternwheeler's pilothouse roof.

 

 The mystery object sits on legs, it's not sitting flush on the roof suggesting it's not very heavy. A ladder leads up the back of the pilothouse to the roof which suggest servicing. There appears to be a burner type mechanism atop the mystery object. I thought it might be some type of carbide lamp but there's no reflector and the history time frame of carbide doesn't coincide plus there appear to be running lights on the hurricane deck. In my research of the Mosquito Fleet and past research of ships in the East i've not seen another object like this. 

 

  Keith

Edited by Keith Black

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

 Because of the below I would feel comfortable moving the mystery sternwheeler's location from Puget Sound to Lake Washington.

 

 https://mynorthwest.com/history/solving-the-1870s-photo-mystery-of-lake-washington-coal-shipping/3901509

 

 From the above.

 

"It was back in the 1870s when coal was being mined in what’s now the Eastside suburbs east of Lake Washington near what’s now Newport and Newcastle. Many of the mines were located in what’s now King County’s Cougar Mountain Regional Wildland Park near Newcastle. Extracting coal was one of the first large-scale industrial undertakings in this area, ahead of even large-scale timber extraction in many ways.

 

The outfit doing the work was called the Seattle Coal and Transportation Company. The coal they were extracting from Newcastle was being sold as far away as San Francisco – but it took a complex system just to get the coal to the waterfront to be loaded on ships in Elliott Bay at the foot of Pike Street.

 

In those long-ago days before the Montlake Cut, the transportation effort required barges on Lake Washington; a short “portage railroad” from Union Bay on Lake Washington to Portage Bay on Lake Union; barges on Lake Union from Portage Bay to roughly where MOHAI now stands; and then the city’s first railroad along what’s now Westlake Avenue."

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted

Keith, what is it with you and choosing subjects with mystery objects on their roofs? First the Susquehanna vessel with its not-boat white tank thing, now this? Can't you choose something straightforward and sensible and stop torturing readers who like figuring things out?

Posted
42 minutes ago, Cathead said:

Keith, what is it with you and choosing subjects with mystery objects on their roofs? First the Susquehanna vessel with its not-boat white tank thing, now this? Can't you choose something straightforward and sensible and stop torturing readers who like figuring things out?

 Eric, I dunno? It's either that I'm not too bright or i love to mentally torture myself. :wacko:

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, ajromano said:

Nerd stuff advanced level! I love it!

   Thank you for the comment, Tony. Research is our middle name.

Edited by Keith Black

Current Builds: Mosquito Fleet Mystery Sternwheeler

                            Sternwheeler from the Susquehanna River's Hard Coal Navy

                            Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee

                            Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia

 

Completed: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula

                      1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver                       

                       Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration

 

 

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