Byrnes Rope Walk

[BANYAN]

Thanks for the pics Meredith, can we impose on you to let us know which ones you think work best as you do your trials (I'll to do the same but my range of threads is not as great as yours  )

 

BTW - do you plan a trial of RH lay in the near future?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited February 21, 2013 by BANYAN

[Meredith]

Yes Pat - thought I would try some RH lay soon

[Ulises Victoria]

Hello all. I made some more testing. The first 3 photos are of a 9 strand rope. I loaded 3 strands of Gutterman sewing thread per spool and the result got me really excited. This opens a million of possibilities as far as scale is concerned. How many different diameters of rope can we make if we have, say, 3 diameters of thread, and can load 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 strands per spool?

The last 3 photos are of a 2 strands per pool or 6 strands rope. Not very good. Seems like the thinner the rope I want to make, the more difficult it is. I am thinking that I may need a smaller hole in the die as this time I noticed the spun rope was too loose in the hole... but I ran out of dies.   Drilled them all to larger diameters than the one we got with the machine.

 

Anyway, I was thinking that there is no need actually to try to make very thin rope. In scale, this would not be noticed.

I would love to hear someone else's opinion.

 

Oh and I'm sorry for the quality of my photos.

 

[BANYAN]

I have just had a session on my repaired machine (thanks Jim) - the spool pully belts were loose.  It is making up nice LH rope now. 

 

When Jim says to keep the tollerance of the die hole small around the threads, he means TIGHT   When he returned the head, he left some polyester on there for me which was the excess of his tests.  I had a LOT of trouble getting all threads through but Jim says that was the die to use.  I eventually got it through and away it went first time this time.

 

I think the loading of the spools plays a big part also.  I noted that the spools Jim had loaded were not quite as tightly wound as mine had been so I will need to experiment there.  I have made up a bit of a jig to assist me in this (I'll take a piccy tomorrow and post it.).  I'll need to keep experimenting

 

The last run I made was with polyester (too stretchy for my liking but I am hardening it to see how it goes).  This was a continuous run of about 10metres, and except for a couple of small imperfections when I moved my hand on the tension wheel as I got tired, the rest looks great.

 

The next test/trial is to try and get RH thread.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited February 23, 2013 by BANYAN

[jimbyr]

Looks like you guys and girls are getting the hang of it.  Meredith,  good looking rope,  you too Ulysses. By now you probably know more about the machine than I do.  Anything you think I should add to the manual for the next victims let me know.  Pat,  lets see some of your rope

 

Jim

[fnkershner]

Jim oh Jim will you please release me from my purgatory. I am pining away for the delivery of my machine.

[Meredith]

I will think of a few things for the instructions Jim...as with all things we do - we get so wrapped up in it - we forget some people (like me ) will need the kindergarten version of "how to do"... To some people something will seem dead obvious - to others - too easy to miss.

 

For instance - the tension wheel - I think I really need to add photos - which I will do later. Instructions say to hold it till the threads engage. For me - I think this needs to be more specific - I ended up holding it so it didnt move at all - and found that to work (but this was after many failed atempts at rope making).  But its not real clear - how long do you hold it - do you let it move at all?.. do you control it throughout the rope making process.. or let it go as soon as the threads engage. I think something a little bit more specific here would help people like me.

[Ulises Victoria]

Looks like you guys and girls are getting the hang of it.  Meredith,  good looking rope,  you too Ulysses. By now you probably know more about the machine than I do.  Anything you think I should add to the manual for the next victims let me know.  Pat,  lets see some of your rope

 

Jim

Jim... did you intend the machine to make really thin ropes? If so... I think you should have included a much smaller hole die with it. In the photos here, I managed to pull 21 Gutterman sewing threads (7 per spool) through the hole in the die that came with the machine. I like this result, but I have not been able to make thin rope so far.

I am using this rope here for the shrouds in my Vasa.. And tomorrow I will probably start my trials at RH Rope.

Oh Jim, and I think you should put some dies for sale along with the extra spools and belts

Edited February 24, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[jimbyr]

Floyd,  it's on it's way,  shipped Friday

 

Jim

[davec]

I got my ropewalk a few weeks ago, and have just gotten a chance to really try it out. I initially got a bad power supply, and am very grateful to Jim for quickly sending me another – great service.  I also was working on Echo cross section for the upcoming admiralty models workshop, and will restart my log for that.

Like others, I’m having mixed results with the ropewalk.  I’m trying to determine the best material, but mostly am having issues with the quality of the winding.

My best luck so far has been with DMC Cordonett crochet thread, which I am leaning towards using for all my rope.  I want to use cotton so it is easy to dye and so thinned white glue will soak in to make coils.  There is a nice table in Frolich’s book where he lists how many threads of each size he used to make different diameter line.  I’m open to other suggestions, but was frustrated using morope to make coils on my last model.  I plan to start a separate thread about coloring the rope, as this one is already covering a lot of ground.

The first picture is #80 DMC Cordonett Ecru colored thread with a single strand on each spindle.  I have been most happy with this thread.  It resulted in .02” rope.  Although there are a few areas along the rope that the wind is a little off, it mostly reflects me getting distracted on the take up reel.  I used a .032” hole in the die.

The other picture reflects the problem I have been having more frequently.  It is 30 wt Egyptian cotton with 3 strands on each spindle.  It is a little out of focus, but shows the third strand being a little less tight than the other two.  I have had this problem a lot, and can’t figure it out.   The spools are wound as per the drawing, and threaded correctly.  Tension is consistent on all 3 spools.  Did anyone else have the same problem, and if so, how did they get around it?

I also saw Meredith’s question about how long to hold the tension wheel.  I have been assuming it should be held the entire time – is this not correct?

I have been thinking about the die hole size.  Any thoughts on what sizes to drill them to so that I can cover the range of rope that I will need for a 1/48 model?  So far, I have a .032” one, and the one that came with it, which appears to be about 1.2mm/.045”.

 

Thanks!

Dave

 

Edited February 24, 2013 by davec

[Geoff Matson]

Dave Your rope looks good thanks for the photos. As for the problem rope I found the tension on all three spools is very important. If you get just a little slack on one spool from winding the thread is seems to show up out of wack. The other thing is keeping the the twisting of the rope in front of the die. That also makes a difference on the rope. I like the way the dmc thread looks. I am going to pick some up and givie it a try. To make thin rope did you seperate the dmc thread to single strands and wind it?  Here is a picture of what I mean keep the rope in front of the die and one with some rope on the takeup spool.  The rope is some quilting thread from Joanne fabric store. Thanks Geoff

Edited February 24, 2013 by Geoff Matson

[BANYAN]

Hi Jim, have taken a photo and sent it to you, will repost on here when I am home (site was down yesterday and didn't have a chance to post it online).  From what I have achieved so far, LH makes up nicely; still having some problems with RH.  I should be more specific in that I am attempting to make RH from RH stocvk thread without going throught the interim process of making LH first - call me lazy!  If anyone finds a stockist of LH threads please give a holler (as I asked first..... )

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited February 25, 2013 by BANYAN

[Meredith]

Hi Geoff,

 

Thanks for the photos - I am actually keeping my twist closer to the die (most of the time!)

I also like the crochet threads - for really thin lines used as is is pretty good too I would think. It will dye very nicely. The Gutterman 12 cotton comes out really nicely too (no fuzzy stuff) and pretty sure the other long staple cottons will be just as good - and they have the benefit of coming in a vast array of colours - no need to dye.

 

I will try and schedule in some ttime to make some more rope this week from some different sample threads - but I am back to work after having a month off and I am inundated with work to catch up on.!!

 

Jim: Re holding the tension wheel - I found the last few ropes I experimented with - I held the wheel all the time - and the results were probably the best/most consistent. So if this is the correct way to do it - this could be an adition to the instructions.

[Ulises Victoria]

OK I won the race!   First photos of RH Rope!!!

This is 4x3x3 Gutterman sewing thread which means I twisted 4 strands into a 3  LH rope and then 3 of those into a RH Rope, so there are 36 strands in this rope.

 

 

I am going to try some Uni Thread used by fly fishermen to make their fly hooks. Someone mentioned getting very good results with it, it's available in many colors and many thickness. Will post results as soon as possible

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005TIO8RO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

Meredith: as far as I know, you should NEVER let go the left hand from the wheel.

 

Jim: I just found out that the handle of the take up spool can be pulled out to free the spool. This is something that is not mentioned anywhere as far as I know.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[jimbyr]

Ulysses

 

Yes the hand wheel comes out to free the spool,  just back off the black thumb wheel.  You can make very tiny rope with the machine.  I got 3 spools of .005 diameter thread from my local sewing supply store,  200 yards each.  200 yards of .005 thread all fits on 1 supply spool so I loaded up all 3 and wound it all into .012 diameter LHR without a problem.  It took me over an hour to do it. I stretched it around the shop to harden it overnight and then re strung it on the machine and made .026 diameter RHR out of that.

 

  Fiber washers and extra dies will be available soon as I can run extra's on the lathe.  Running take up spools right now.   

 

Meredith

 

You always hold the large knob to make propper rope.  If you don't you're only twisting it and will wind up with a big ball when you remove it from the take up spool.  If it looks like the rope is getting too tight or starts to kink on you let the knob slip a bit to relax the lay.  This is  one of those things that really takes practice to do well. 

 

Pat

 

Did you harden the LHR you were using before trying to make RHR out of it.? It may help???.

 

Jim

[Meredith]

I think everyone is certainly coming along nicely now - it was bound to happen! Sure helps having this forum to discuss it - otherwise it could take ages on your own.  Being able to benefit from other peoples trials sure is helpful.

 

There is no stopping you now Ulises!!!

[Ulises Victoria]

Ulysses

 

 You can make very tiny rope with the machine.  I got 3 spools of .005 diameter thread from my local sewing supply store,  200 yards each.  200 yards of .005 thread all fits on 1 supply spool so I loaded up all 3 and wound it all into .012 diameter LHR without a problem.  It took me over an hour to do it. I stretched it around the shop to harden it overnight and then re strung it on the machine and made .026 diameter RHR out of that.

 

 Jim

Jim: What was the diameter in the die hole when you did this?

 

Meredith: I am really excited. I finally can see that the investment I did on this machine is paying off. But also... In one weekend I can make all the ropes I need for all the ships I have in my stash. So I'm thinking about start making ropes to sell

Edited February 25, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[jimbyr]

Ulysses

 

My smallest drill size  .014

 

Jim

[BANYAN]

Here you go Jim, a first up photo of LH vs RH rope made on your machine.  The LH laid rope is shown on the right.  Ther RH laid is formed from RH stock as I have not made up sufficient small stuff yet - just seeing if I could short-cut the process; but, it looks like I have to make up the smaller stock in LH first.

 

I need to get a macro lens for this type of photo I think - this photo is taken at short notice and really does not 'cut the mustard' so to speak  - sorry for the poor quality.  Only a bit of each scale rope is in focus, but it shows the uneven lay of the strands in the RH laid rope (to the left) within the circled area.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Edited February 25, 2013 by BANYAN

[jimbyr]

Pat

 

As far as I know you can't make RH out of RH.  The thread actually unwinds just before it is formed making some funky looking rope.

 

Jim

[Ulises Victoria]

Update.

Ok... I've been experimenting A LOT with my machine and I think I got it now.

Here are photos of one thin (3 strands) thread in light beige, made with 3 strands (1 per spool) of Gutterman quilting thread. (It looks fuzzy, but every rope that goes onto my ship, passes over a lighter flame first to eliminate that.) This is the thinnest I may be able to do just because it's the thinnest thread I can start with. I found out that the problem I had making thin ropes was not the die hole diameter, but the speed. I managed to make this rope (less than .5mm) using the die that came with the machine, which is way wider than this thread, but at a very slow speed. In fact, I just learned that by letting the  twisting point to remain half way between the large eye before the die, and the spinning head, the thread came up more smooth and tight. I would love to hear some others experimenting with this.

 

The dark brown (36 strands) was made with  4 threads per spool spun into 1, (4*3) and then, 3 of these  spun into 1

(4*3*3=36).

 

I feel that if I can make these, I can make anything that's inbetween.

 

So  the options to make thick ropes are now 3:

 

1.- (The longest and more tedious, but maybe the more accurate) Start by twisting several (many many) meters of 1*3 rope, use those to make 1*3*3, then use these to make 1*9*3, etc

 

2.- Use 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 strands per spool. You will get a different thickness with each.

 

3.- Use different diameter threads to start with.

 

(Or any combination of the above)

Edited March 1, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[Chuck]

Nice looking rope...a bit fuzzy but I imagine that could be eliminated easily enough.

 

Chuck

[Geoff Matson]

Nice looking rope Ulises. I found the slower I went the more control I had. I am looking forward to some time of playing with the ropewalk and seeing what I can do. Thanks for the photos

 

Geoff

[Ulises Victoria]

Nice looking rope...a bit fuzzy but I imagine that could be eliminated easily enough.

 

Chuck

Yes Chuck... a quick pass over  a lighter flame gets rid of it totally. No rope goes on my ship without this treatment.

[Meredith]

All looking really good - there is hope for me yet.

 

Still building furniture and re-arranging house/rooms and helping my son with all his furniture builds (he finally moved into his permanent apartment yesterday after the removalist brought all his new gear).

 

As soon as the above is finished, I will get back to ships and rope making!!!!

[fnkershner]

Its Here! my Wife called me at work and told me I had recieved a package. I made her read the label and then I played hooky from work for the rest of the day! I now have one and guess what I will be doing tomorrow! Jim Thank you thank you.

[capnharv2]

And Floyd's Harvey goes on the back burner for a couple of weeks. . . :-)

 

So, will you have it set up and running and able to answer all questions about it at this month's meeting???

 

Just kidding-enjoy playing with it!

 

Harvey (the model builder, not the model ship)

[fnkershner]

Yes Harvey I will be publishing the newsletter this weekend (in between playing with the rope walk) and I expect that our meeting on the 16th will be mostly dedicated to rope making. I have strick instructions from the admiral that the Harvey (ship) needs to show some progress this weekend. So we will see how far I get.

[SJSoane]

 

HI everyone,

 

I just received my Byrnes ropewalk, which is every bit as wonderful as his other tools.

 

I have been experimenting today, learning the ropes ;-).

 

I have a question for those of you who are a number of steps ahead of me. How do you load the supply spools with multiple threads, and keep the tension even? I tried laying out two strands of threads across the room, tied the two together at one end, and taped the tied end to the spool. Then I tried to feed the two strands onto the spool as evenly as possible. The lumpiness of the finished rope in places suggests that the tension was not even throughout.

 

Any ideas?

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[fnkershner]

I have just spent part of this morning trying out my club's Rope Walk. My question is how do you know if you have the die the right size? How tight should the rope be going through the die? I used some old Mantua rigging thread for testing. I started with a pretty small diameter. I used the die that came with the rope walk. I think it is too big. But I am not sure.