Armed Virginia Sloop by ortho85 - FINISHED - Model Shipways - second model

[ortho85]

Thanks, Ken.  My Practicums from Bob Hunt arrived today, so I will follow them from here on.  But there are always puzzles!

 

So, another question to all.  I'm ready to glue the main sub-deck on, but want to be sure I haven't missed anything else (like the mast mortices!).  Here's a photo of the sub-deck pinned in place.  Where there are holes punched out should I cut away any of the bulwarks for future attachment of pumps etc?

 

 

Also, should I be concerned that the sub-deck cutout for the mast (near the middle of the 3 pins) doesn't exactly match up with the centre keel Mast recess?  Or am I overthinking again?

 

Thanks,

 

Brett

[aliluke]

Hi Brett

Getting the main mast in is a difficult thing but the deck isn't the issue. Brace the mast slots below the deck as Ken suggested and carry on. There is no need to cut out anything else below the sub-deck. You can even plank over all of those holes without fear. That said, I see them as useful guides rather than structural needs.There is certainly no need to cut away the lower bulkheads.

 

For the sub-deck my only advise is to make sure it is properly cambered. Make sure you sand down the tops of the bulkheads to get that camber right and even. My laziness about this on my build really caused me pain later on.

 

Cheers

Alistair

[BareHook]

Another thing that I did regarding the subdeck was to layout the deckplanks, nibbing strake and butts plan in pencil, I found it helpful when it came time to plank the deck.

The cutouts aren't critical, just reference for location, and I remember some logs where they planked the entire deck and then aded their cutouts after per the plan locations and dimensions.

Most builders also painted the bulkheads and frame pieces black where they were adjacent to hatches or gratings, so they wouldn't show-up through any deck openings.

 

Ken

[ortho85]

And another question.  The instructions and the practicum show the Knighthead carved as a rhomboid in cross section:

 

 

I can't see any reason for this shape.  Surely a simple rectangular shape mirroring the Timberhead would work the same?

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks,

 

Brett

[aliluke]

Hi Brett

I agree with you - the rhomboid shape is too subtle. Get them in and fair them as all other parts for serving the planking. I think there is a photo in my log of these parts installed. I certainly can't remember being especially stressed about the shape - the parts are too small to worry about in this respect. More important is to get the planking flow - internally and externally working around them.

 

Cheers

Alistair

[BareHook]

I worried way too much about the knight and timberheads, just get them faired for a smooth planking curve.

You will also want some fillers on the bulkhead extensions for the hawsholes, sweep holes and gunport top/bottoms so when you do the cutouts, you dont have hollow spots on the bullwarks, but the practicum with probably tell you to add those soon. I didn't worry about the scuppers, they were too small to see past the planking.

 

Ken

[ortho85]

Thanks, again!

 

Because I believe you should always listen to advice, I decided to follow Bob Hunt's practicum (cheers, Alistair).

 

He has you place the stern framing BEFORE the wing transom and filler blocks.  When I looked at the positions of the wing transoms I had placed, I realised they were wrong - flat across instead of angled downwards towards the sides.  Another misdirection from the official plans.  This shows the stern frames resting on the glued-on wing transom:

 

 

 

When I fixed the poop deck it looked even more wrong.  So, using Dan's advice, I unglued the wing transoms and fillers.  Isopropyl alcohol and GladWrap:

 

 

Then used the inboard windows to shape and position the stern frames.  Being belt-and-braces, I placed strengthening blocks between each frame, glued to the bulkhead:

 

 

Rinse, and repeat:

 

 

Having read that windows get mixed up, I replaced them in their original block as I went:

 

 

Again, using the windows as guides, I trimmed and fitted the headers and sills - not really happy with these, couldn't find a way to make them fit in all directions.  I'm hoping sanding will fix that:

 

 

Painted the insides black as suggested.  Also, as you can see, at that stage I refitted the wing transoms and filler blocks.

 

Enough writing - time for some sanding!

 

Cheers,

 

Brett

 

[BareHook]

Looking good. You may also want to install some back stops where the windows are, its in one of the practicums, just remember the frames will be flush after planking. I deviated here from plans and design and decided to have my window frames protrude above the planking, with the edges rounded.

Don't sweat the cabin framing too much, if the windows are held correctly. After the planking it will all look clean. When planking the transom, keep in mind your plank count and where the widths will end up in relation the the window frames, plus the planks have a curve following the counter and poopdeck curves.

Ken

[ortho85]

So, where was I?  Too long between posts!  Just looking over my photos, and realising how much has happened.

 

I'm currently planking, but have fallen way behind in my log.  So here we are in small posts.

 

So, Knightheads and Timberheads fitted, and bulkheads (so I thought) faired:

 

 

As per the Practicum, deckline planks installed - WRONGLY!  More on this later, but here's what I thought was correct:

 

 

 

 

Waterways installed:

 

 

In the next post I will explain what I had done wrongly.  I really am learning a lot from my mess-ups!

[BareHook]

Good to see you back, I cannot see any problems, but I'm sure all are here ready to provide advise. The beauty of wood models is that most problems can be fixed.

 

Ken

[grayarea]

I'm at about the same stage in my own build of the AVS as you, and also have fallen behind in posting. Once you start planking, the going is slow - one plank at a time, a few hours per plank. Who wants to see pictures of that? At least that's how I figure it. But I'll probably update my own build log too in the next day or so. (http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/5864-armed-virginia-sloop-by-grayarea-ms-148-first-wood-ship-build/page-3)

Meanwhile it seems like we're discovering the same thing: This practice is all about trouble-shooting. One stumper after another. But your build looks good - as-yet unexplained errors notwithstanding. Thank you for sharing. 

Enjoy.

[ortho85]

The next step in the Practicum is the Counter.  Again, I found my previous efforts with the window frames had given a less than perfect edge. 

 

I'm trying to show fine detail, because I hope that will help others.  Small images led me to some errors I will show in the next post.  So, here's the first plank from three angles

 

 

 

 

And here's the first layer of Counter planking:

 

 

 

 

Then the walnut planks and windows glued in:

 

 

Added some walnut to reinforce the forward surface of the transom planks, and started fitting the fashion pieces:

 

 

 

Next post I will confess my errors.  Each step involves me in much agonising and stress!  I try to figure out from the practicums, plans, and logs, but often don't fully understand until it's time for that D'oh moment!

[aliluke]

When you clean that stern up and trim it off I'm sure it'll all be fine. It and the fashion pieces and the wales are all key relationships which I think the practicum covers really well.

 

I do think an issue is that there is too much information out there for this ship! I advise ignoring everything excepting for the practicum. Throw away the kit instructions (not the drawings). Use logs like my brief one, or Ken's, or Ryland's to give you indications of outcomes rather than direct instructions. The trick is that there are so many contradictions and I found the practicum's pathway made a great result even though it contradicted almost all other instructions. Don't tie yourself in knots - have fun!

[ortho85]

OK - Errata time!

 

At this stage I realised I had misinterpreted a couple of (probably) important areas.  I decided to fix them instead of ploughing on.

 

Firstly I had not curved the planks up enough at the stern.  The Practicum said to follow the deck line forward, then begin the curve upwards at Bulkhead N, but I did not realise just how much curve this needed.  So, instead of the bottom of the lower plank finishing as shown in this Practicum image:

 

 

 

I had not put enough curve in.  I shimmed the upper part, then marked and trimmed off the lower.  This shows the state before I trimmed.  You can see I shimmed twice before I got enough improvement:

 

 

 

Then I realised that my Fashion pieces should have been flush with the filler blocks.  I tried and tried to work this out, but nothing gave me the close up detail I needed.

 

So, like an idiot (sorry Alistair!) I looked at the instructions!  They definitely showed a filler going in next to the Fashion piece:

 

 

 

So that's what you can see in the last photo in my last post.  Only small, but enough to matter.  Especially now I'm becoming more fussy like the rest of you!

 

So, it was unglue time (AGAIN!):

 

 

Cut the transom back flush, and replace the Fashion pieces:

 

 

That last photo was 6th April.  Planking has begun, and will be documented RSN.

 

Happy Easter to all,

 

Brett

[aliluke]

Hi Brett

I remember a member of the LSS forum making this mistake with the rise of the wale. Sadly I think he gave up altogether. I'm glad you have found a fix which makes sense to me. The laying of the wales and fashion pieces is photographed in my log. It was all by the way of the practicum and worked. Stick at it I'd say - once the key parts are aligned it becomes much easier and a lot more fun.

[ortho85]

Hi Alistair,

 

If you get bored some time you should consider reconstructing your log.  The photos are great, but need a thousand words!!!!! 

 

BTW, we loved Wellington, even though we caught the tail of Cyclone Lusi during our 2 days there!

 

Cheers,

 

Brett

[HIPEXEC]

Nice work!

[aliluke]

Hi Brett

If Lusi's tail end was a trouble you should try Ita's tail end. The weirdest thing is that we are being rained on big time but there is not a breathe of wind here - completely still. Other parts of the country have massive winds.

 

I can't rebuild my log. I lost most of the of pictures in the crash of MSW 1.0 and the crash of my own computer. I certainly lost all of the text. Memory would deter me getting it rebuilt. I can only offer this as a key picture. The underlying wale planking is fixed. The outer wale is dry clamped into position. The black strake goes above this line and the decoration above this again. The fashion pieces are shaped to this dry fit to the wale to fit flush with it and fixed in place. The wale is then taken off for the rest to continue. This is all in the practicum - I think...

[BareHook]

I had a hard time with the fashion pieces as well, I think I fabricated and scapped 2 or 3 before I was happy. Regarding the wale, dont worry about the fixes, they are on the first layer and your second layer walnut can be laid over the fixes. And finally, dont kill yourself with the close-up photography, it looks good for showing particular details and questions, but the naked eye is the quality standard, your build is looking good!

 

Ken

[alde]

This is a great build log. It's nice to see you make the effort to make sure you do it right even if it means taking it back a couple of steps. This will be my next build and I have the full Bob Hunt Practicum and will follow that and the MSW logs.

 

Al D.

[ortho85]

Planking began easily - the practicum suggested making a reinforcing support at the bow, which I did:

 

 

Then simple 1/8" planks above the wale:

 

 

Later I roughly trimmed out the gunports, and added another plank to the top of those, plus 2 more layers of short planks (very suitable!) at the aft - you'll see those in subsequent photos.

 

Next came 4 planks (1/4") below the wale, with that awkward curve/bend at the stern.  Here my daughter's spare hair-curler came in very useful, as a steam bender:

 

 

These were spiled as instructed, to be narrower at the bow.

 

Next was the Garboard Strake (who thought these stupid names up?).  Here I could not understand the practicum, and anyway I had made a mess of my rabbeting at the very beginning.  So I just used a full 1/4" plank to cover some of my sins.

 

Note to anyone starting this model - if I did it again I would definitely follow the practicum advice NOT the pathetic instructions that come with the kit.  I.E. cut the rabbet before gluing on the keel etc.

 

I was worried that I would not be able to properly align the keel etc with the false keel, and that the glued joint would be too thin to survive.  In hindsight, I think it would have been strong enough, and simply laying the pieces on a flat surface would have aligned them.

 

For my first model ship I used wood glue (PVA) almost exclusively.  This time around I'm using a lot more cyanoacrylate for the planks.  And I do mean a lot! 

 

Hint - vinyl gloves stick less to CA than latex gloves or skin do!

 

Here you can see the first couple of planks at the keel:

 

 

The practicum has you using full length planks for this first layer.  I had planned to try proper planking, but decided to follow Alistair's advice, and go with Bob Hunt's plans.  After a few more planks you are left with an irregular shape to close off:

 

 

A bit of spiling to plug the gaps:

 

 

And it's time to start filling and sanding:

 

 

 

The last photo points out another mistake I made.  The practicum suggests soaking difficult planks for two hours before bending.  I soaked for one hour - still waaaaay too long.  You can see how they had swollen then shrunk after gluing.  10 mins would be enough for basswood, I think!

 

Cheers,

 

Brett

[aliluke]

Looking good Brett, really good. I split my first planks in two by length - half forward, half aft. That gave me more control but you seem to have cracked it with full lengths. There is plenty of room to sand fill and then enjoy the second planks over a well formed hull. That is a much more enjoyable experience and I used CA throughout.

[Bindy]

The last photo points out another mistake I made.  The practicum suggests soaking difficult planks for two hours before bending.  I soaked for one hour - still waaaaay too long.  You can see how they had swollen then shrunk after gluing.  10 mins would be enough for basswood, I think!

 

Ohhhh thank you for the big tip Brett!

 

As a new builder I didn't even think about how wood would expand when wet and then shrink back as it dries.  Without your post, I would have found out the very hard way later on.  Thank you again!

[aliluke]

I'm sure it depends on the wood but I only fix any type of bent wood after it is completely dry. When dry it tends to flatten out the bend but it has a memory and will return to the bend with very little persuasion.

[ortho85]

Alistair, I wish I had realised that earlier!  I hope it will now be in my memory bank, allow to dry before gluing!

 

While sanding I noted a concavity in the hull, and several other small defects.  I filled these and continued sanding:

 

 

 

 

 

At that time I also cleaned up the rabbett joint to allow a better future fit of the top layer of walnut planks.

 

 

Next were the gunport sills and spirketing planks.  I cut the scuppers with a dental laboratory drill, and rounded them with a curved file.

 

Two more errors - I made the scuppers too shallow, and I allowed them to be partially blocked with glue:

 

 

 

I plan to clean these up with another type of dental drill!

 

As you can see, I also placed reinforcements for the oar sweep ports, and to provide support for hawse ports at the bow and planking at the quarterdeck.

 

I think it's hilarious - I keep using such terms, but I have to keep looking them up.  Maybe by model #10 I will understand/remember them! 

 

Cheers,

 

Brett

[BareHook]

Looking good! One thing to consider when planking the second layer is having planking butts patterned on the hull.  Typical timber lengths available in that era of construction were 20 to 30 feet or 5 to 7.5 inches, so the hull timbers had offset butt joints that meet at the bulkheads, similar to the deck planking patterns seen on many builds. When I did the planking on my AVS, each strake was made up of two pieces with the butt joint offset in a pattern so that it did not repeat unless there were two strakes between at each butt joint location. Of course, if you are planning to paint the hull, the pattern will not show up and using full length planks won't make any difference.

 

Ken

[grayarea]

Looks great. I'm enjoying your progress. I'm still planking Band A.

[ortho85]

Question for the experts!

 

In the first layer of outer planking I overbuilt at the cabin/poop deck (as per the practicum).  Currently it looks like this:

 

 

Before I do the walnut outer planking, do you think I should reduce that overhang to near the subdeck level?  And should I trim back the height of the transom?

 

Something like this???

 

 

 

Cut along dotted line?

 

Thanks,

 

Brett

[aliluke]

Yes the red lines are probably more correct but no! Do not cut now! Wait until you get the decking, inner bulwarks and outer planking on and then make those decisions. The final adjustments of these parts only needs to made just before you fit the  cap rails - hold off until then. Better to cut later when you have all aspects in place and can judge the correct lines. I have exactly the same issue with Fly.

 

You are much better off having stuff to remove than having stuff to add!!!

[grayarea]

Brett, 

Your build is looking great. As a first-timer, this is an elementary question but what do you use as filler when sanding and fairing your first layer of planking?