druxey Posted October 30, 2015 Share #391 Posted October 30, 2015 Whew! I'd hate to be wrong - again! mtaylor and AON 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share #392 Posted November 1, 2015 corrected PDFs attached in post #384 above druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted November 1, 2015 Share #393 Posted November 1, 2015 Yes - I'd buy that version now! Reading old drafting conventions can be tricky. AON and mtaylor 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share #394 Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) here is my work to date on the "pointy end" less the point! .... and assembled to the first part done. Edited November 1, 2015 by AON AnobiumPunctatum, Mike Y, druxey and 4 others 7 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don9of11 Posted November 4, 2015 Share #395 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Really nice work Alan. Your framing looks nice and smooth with no bumps. Inventor allows you to project 3D geometry from two 2D views. That's cool! That would save a lot of time. I'm still reading thru your post to learn how you faired your hull. Have you done a comparison of your centers of floor sweeps, upper and lower breadth sweeps to the Bellerophon's? How closely do they match the original draft. That might be beyond the scope of your work here but I was just curious. What do the zebra line look like now (haha)? ---edited---- SW will let you project 2D curves from different planes to make one 3D curve. Tested it today. Edited November 9, 2015 by Don9of11 mtaylor 1 Quote Current project: Retired www.howefamily.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share #396 Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Good afternoon Don, Earlier fairing was very time consuming minor adjustments of points to smooth out the lines which probably didn't really matter much (okay, I'll take the 100 lashes with the wet noodle now) due to the reduced scale but now having used the projected geometry everything is dead nuts on (that is an actual technical term guys and gals) based on the scale projections and any minor blemishes are really very minor and un-noticeable. I'm betting sanding will do more damage than 3D modelling. The upper third of the framing/hull was/is a bit more of a challenge as it is only depicted in the one view.... no projecting possible. Ah, those darn zebra stripes! Now that brings back awful memories. They look purty darn good now. I am just finishing the attachment of the "pointy end" and will work on the aft half next week. I was missing the two forward gun ports in the last image posted. They have been added which forced me to adjust a couple frames. Alan Edited November 4, 2015 by AON mtaylor, Don9of11 and druxey 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don9of11 Posted November 4, 2015 Share #397 Posted November 4, 2015 Thanks Alan, now if MSW would just get their notifications fixed. mtaylor 1 Quote Current project: Retired www.howefamily.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share #398 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Modeling the bow was a lot more trouble for me than it should have been.... but it is done. The hawse pieces will require filler pieces between them for the hawse holes (not shown). I will now make the templates from H-AFT to forward of the Stem Head Frames. Edit note: The photos have been updated with the hawse pieces remodelled as discussed below. Edited November 9, 2015 by AON mtaylor, popash42, ggrieco and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted November 8, 2015 Share #399 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) There are no filler pieces for the hawse holes, Alan: the timbers themselves are wider and abut each other. The hawse pieces are cut away above and below to form the air spaces. Edited November 8, 2015 by druxey mtaylor 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share #400 Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) Good morning Druxey Yes I saw that I was struggling with modelling it... it has to be quite easy to do which is why I cannot figure it out. If I do I will update it... otherwise it may stay this way (maybe I should add a note so I do not forget) or I might be able to sketch it in....hmmmm... I also thought it would be easier to build as a filler piece but this would not be true to the build. I am going to have to chew on this a bit. Alan Edited December 28, 2015 by AON druxey and mtaylor 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share #401 Posted November 9, 2015 It took some doing but I managed to figure out how to remodel the hawse pieces. Of course it was easier than I imagined. I changed the photos out in post 398 above I have not put the holes in. I like the looks of it! Thank you Druxey... I needed the nudge. Viloria and mtaylor 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted November 9, 2015 Share #402 Posted November 9, 2015 You are very nudge-worthy and welcome, Alan! mtaylor and AON 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don9of11 Posted November 9, 2015 Share #403 Posted November 9, 2015 I think your model is looking great Alan, I'm taking great care to study your work. I do have a question and hopefully it won't detract you to much from your goal. Since Inventor allows you to project 2D curves into 3D, what was the final shape of your upper and lower heights of breadth in the body plan? Do they follow the lines of the Elephant? Druxey commented in one of my post that the designer pretty much had control over this and I'm just curious how they actually projected out. I refer to my post #864 mtaylor 1 Quote Current project: Retired www.howefamily.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share #404 Posted November 9, 2015 Good morning Don, Yes, the upper and lower breadth lines follow the lines of the Elephant as plotted. I drew a spline let her lay as she would prefer as a traditional autocad spline. There are a few very minor "wiggly" spots but at scale they are quite minor and deemed not worthy of correction. As I said before, sanding may do more damage. Then again the real build was perfectly imperfect! Joining into them from below and above was somewhat the same... she went where she wanted... never argue with a woman. Alan mtaylor, druxey and Don9of11 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share #405 Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) What a week! I had the good fortune to have an angel looking over my shoulder and make me take a long hard look at my work. There were some errors. I didn't have a proper understanding of the rising line versus the rising wood (among a few other problems) Spent a good portion of the time reworking my models and drawings. Reposting updates below. (I removed the earlier version) I hope I have them correct now. ***Some minor additional work to do on sheet 2 (yet to add the scarph joints) to the forward cant frames. And I owe someone an apology,... frame (A) was supposed to be A. BTW yesterday was our 40th wedding anniversary and today is my birthday! (I keep referring to my darling wife as my BD present) I believe she picked the day before my BD so I could never forget. I would have loved to have been at the framing seminar in Atlanta this weekend (I would have learnt so much!) but these dates were to important. NOTE (31 JAN 2016) I have once again removed the attachments... sorry for that. I have been making further refinements, corrections and "tweaking" and fully intend to repost a full set of templates in the next month... that is the target. Edited January 31, 2016 by AON mtaylor, albert, hexnut and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share #406 Posted November 24, 2015 some progress aft (the green highlighted portion from station 2 to 16) it is slow going but I may possibly have the framing templates completed before Christmas then I try my hand at building again archjofo, avsjerome2003, mtaylor and 5 others 8 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert Posted November 24, 2015 Share #407 Posted November 24, 2015 Hi Alan, wonderful work. mtaylor and AON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share #408 Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Fast approaching two years and little to show. I am about where I was in my last model when my computer died and I lost my privilege to using SolidWorks. I've completed (for the most part) up to frame 28. Need to add the Gunports. The last couple quarterdeck gunports are drawn narrower than actual as the frames are bent and if I cut out the full gunport I'd loose the frame cutting template detail I need. About to complete the stern. Below is a snip of my progress and what is left to do! Being an old draughtsman I admit to not being able to see my own mistakes and so relied on my working associates to check my work after I had thought I'd thoroughly reviewed it. I miss my checkers but alas they wouldn't know what to look for in these models and drawings. The further away from the Dead Flat I get the more my errors pop up. Caught most (I believe) but will have to clear my head and give it a few final reviews when I am done. I have not drawn in the shifting, bent and very special frames shapes as I will be working very closely with a clean print of the original framing draught to pick up those details. My drawings are to get the basic molded shapes for cutting. Will post again when I am done... or I stumble again. BTW... my "Waldo" frames proper name still eludes me and I continue to look. Edited December 2, 2015 by AON mtaylor, archjofo, Don9of11 and 7 others 10 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share #409 Posted December 21, 2015 I said I wouldn't but it was such a nightmare to do this last little bit I had to post it It is not completed yet but the worst is over (thanks to my Irish/Scottish/French/Portuguese stubbornness) I present the (uncompleted as yet) "stern"! hexnut, ggrieco, tadheus and 10 others 13 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 21, 2015 Share #410 Posted December 21, 2015 Persistence seems to be paying off, Alan! Things are looking good. AON and mtaylor 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share #411 Posted December 27, 2015 The hull model is as complete as I need to go with her. Now I finish my templates, and will finally be on my way with the build. Why does the last 5% take 25% of the time? albert, tadheus, avsjerome2003 and 9 others 11 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 27, 2015 Share #412 Posted December 27, 2015 Why? Because!! Small point: the outer corner of the sider counter timbers and upper corner of the wing transom should meet. There seems to be a shelf there at the moment. Season's greetings to you, Alan. mtaylor 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtdoramike Posted December 27, 2015 Share #413 Posted December 27, 2015 I'm curious here, you have spent better than two years researching the model. When do you intend to start construction? The reason why I ask is that I have known modellers in the past that spent so much time researching their subject that they got burnt out and never got around to the building portion. I just took it that they really enjoyed the research more than the actual application. mike mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share #414 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) Good morning Mike Yes it has been a long time, no one knows it better than me I had a false start building a year ago but approached it wrong and I didn't like what I had done I have had at least three starts at modelling, this last being a switch from SolidWorks to Inventor. Besides having caught many errors, learned many things about the ship, I also learned about 3D modelling which has been quite valuable for work.Although I do not draw at work anymore (I do not model) my co-workers do, and the mystery surrounding the process is gone. I expect it will take me a few weeks to complete my templates and have two sets printed... then I start.It takes time to clear your head and then the mistakes leap off the screen/sheet and they can be addressed I've been going slower this last attempt at modeling and will be taking my time with the build. This will be my first scratch build "ship" and I am learning so much.... including patience; not something that comes naturally to me It is also the first time I've made my own templates Many firsts happening here It is as much about the journey as it will be the completion. Alan Edited December 27, 2015 by AON Seventynet, AnobiumPunctatum and mtaylor 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share #415 Posted December 27, 2015 Good morning Druxey Because? I imagined other more substantial reasons! I have purposefully left minute gaps to help me with the breaks between pieces when making the templates My breaks are between full scale 1/2" and 1" (depending on the location) which will not amount to anything in the build (0.016" max) There are also other painful errors, for example there is a ripple in the outer surface of the stealer timbers at the stern below the lower transom pieces but the ripple is outwards and so will sand away if I should happen to be oversize a wee bit. I've tried and tried and it just gets worse so, I've thought it through and have my plan. (I am also sometimes calling Waldo a stealer timber as I haven't found the proper term as yet) There are also a few irregularities in the lower transom pieces that I can fix (blend) easier in the 2D drawing I also left the radii out of the corners of the wing transom as my gut tells me I should gentle do this by eye sanding the pieces I've had to make decisions along the way, and will live and learn by them. Lord knows there is likely something I haven't noticed... seeing the forest for the trees kind of thing. Alan mtaylor, Seventynet and druxey 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtdoramike Posted December 27, 2015 Share #416 Posted December 27, 2015 Good morning Mike Yes it has been a long time, no one knows it better than me I had a false start building a year ago but approached it wrong and I didn't like what I had done I have had at least three starts at modelling, this last being a switch from SolidWorks to Inventor. Besides having caught many errors, learned many things about the ship, I also learned about 3D modelling which has been quite valuable for work. Although I do not draw at work anymore (I do not model) my co-workers do, and the mystery surrounding the process is gone. I expect it will take me a few weeks to complete my templates and have two sets printed... then I start. It takes time to clear your head and then the mistakes leap off the screen/sheet and they can be addressed I've been going slower this last attempt at modeling and will be taking my time with the build. This will be my first scratch build "ship" and I am learning so much.... including patience; not something that comes naturally to me It is also the first time I've made my own templates Many firsts happening here It is as much about the journey as it will be the completion. Alan I can't wait to see the temps. Yep I agree, I love the research aspect as well, but after two years, I better be cutting some wood or I've done lost the passion for it. Have you considered trying out a less complicated model for a first scratch build, which should build up your skills even further before attacking this beast? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don9of11 Posted December 27, 2015 Share #417 Posted December 27, 2015 Excellent work Alan. Your model will be an inspiration to others. I especially like your development of the stern, beautifully done. mtaylor and AON 2 Quote Current project: Retired www.howefamily.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share #418 Posted December 27, 2015 Thank you Don That took about 5 tries to get it looking correct I'm sure a talented modeler would have done better and quicker mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share #419 Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) Mike, Short answer... nope! (I have done a scratch build boat) I fear I may not live long enough to complete the only ship I want to do, so, I dive into the deep end and if I should go "to the place of truth" before it is done I will have at least been working on it. Edited December 27, 2015 by AON mtdoramike and mtaylor 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 27, 2015 Share #420 Posted December 27, 2015 It is as much about the journey as it will be the completion. Alan That sums it all up nicely. druxey 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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