HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[AON]

I prefer to support the local mom and pop stores while they still exist, so like E-Bay, the Pro Bass Shop would be a last resort.

 

I am also not a fan of the automatic check (yourself) out stands in some stores as I believe the more people use these the more other people will be out of work.

 

I miss the days when the pump attendant filled'er up, washed the windows and checked your oil... I also miss the $0.35 admission to a movie when the rest of my 50 cents bought me a pop (or soda) and small bag of pop corn.... those were simpler days... of course I was 13 then.

Edited February 8, 2015 by AON

[druxey]

I agree with you, Alan! I'm no fan of megastores either (as you could probably tell).

[AON]

Two weeks have passed and not a lot to show.

 

I managed 3D modelling and 2D drawing up quite a few frames only to realize I had a compounding error in them as the lower scarph joints rise in elevation on the real Elephant's plans but not in my version.  Made corrections over last weekend and then caught some bug Monday that had me down for the rest of the week. Head ache, muscle aches, chills, unbelievable fatigue but none of the more nasty possibilities.  I cannot recall the last time I was sick on work days.  I normally get sick on Friday at about 6 PM and am miraculously cured by Monday in the wee hours of the morning.

 

Feeling considerably better today so I went downstairs and cut the keel and false keel pieces and then the scarph joints in the keel pieces.

 

Immediately buggered the first attempt ... and after all those practice runs a few weeks ago!

 

Then I began cutting the boxing joint in the forward most keel piece and was quite happy with the result.

 

Began to cut the mating joint in the lowest stem post section... checked, double checked, triple checked, marked the waste half with with an "X"... and yes I then cut it wrong.

 

So now I have two pieces that without question need a "do over".

Templates cut and glued to some drops from earlier cuts.

 

[Mark P]

Hi Alan;

 

I too am building a 74-gun ship,  HMS Tremendous,  launched 1784.  I chose her because there is an 'as built' draught available,  beautifully drawn,  showing the details of the figurehead and stern carvings,  as well as much of the inboard works.

 

I am presently working up the drawing using Cad,  which takes some time.

 

Anyway,  I have not read all your build log yet,  as 21 pages is a bit too much unless I have lots of spare time,  a very rare event;  but I thought that you would like to know that the NMM have some of the original contracts for building of 74s in the 1770s & 80s,  and these are available as copies at a very reasonable price.  They are A3 sized,  run for quite a few pages,  and are crammed with detailed descriptions of virtually every timber in the vessel being built,  including scantlings,  as well as descriptions of many other parts and fittings of the ship,  such as capstans,  hatches,  bitts,  bulkheads, headrails,  eye-bolts,  ring-bolts,  bolts and much more.

 

Look on the website under ADT009,  and you will find the contract for the actual 'Bellerophon' herself.  ADT0011,  ADT0012 are for the 'Bombay Castle' & 'Ganges',  and ADT0030 is for 'Elephant',  all from the similar period. 

 

There are more,  and they follow a set format in the order that timbers etc are described.  Some are hand-written,  and some are printed;  but they are all fascinating and original documents,  well worth the cost of purchasing (£20 each plus postage)

 

Each begins with several pages of overall or general dimensions,  and it is these which would have been used by the draughtsman in the mould loft to help set out his full size frames,  or by any subsequent draughtsman setting out a draught in the method outlined by Steel in his 'Naval Architecture' wherein he describes the drawing of a draught line by line;  this is impossible without access to the measurements given in the contract,  or by obtaining them elsewhere,  or inventing them.

 

Happy modelling!

 

Mark P

[AON]

Hello Mark,

 

Thank you for visiting and for the suggestions.

 

I have the set of the three draughts of HMS Elephant and one of Goliath.

I also have copies of the build contracts for HMS Bellerophon and Elephant.

 

Being an old time draughtsman in this new age computer drafting world I've chosen to draw a 3D image to create a model of the hull and then 2D templates to start my build.  I finally get to use my old instruments again, but down in my workshop.

 

I hope you will visit again and include a link to your build as I should like to see how you come along!

 

Alan

[druxey]

I assume you cut the wrong side of the lower stem scarph away, Alan? I seem to recall having done that once myself, years ago! I feel your pain.

[AON]

OH YES  

 

And feeling quite dumb about the whole thing as I held the pieces "side by each" to assure it wouldn't happen.

 

I am somehow certain I have not yet proven just how dumb I can be ... bigger and better misteaks yet to happen I am sure. 

[SJSoane]

 

Yes, Mark P, I would also like to see a build log as you develop your 74! Mine is a little earlier than both your's and Alan's, and it is always fun to see the similarities and differences.

 

Mark

[AON]

Completed the remake of the stern keel piece and the lower stem post piece.... and I got the joint correct this time.

 

I also sealed (three spray coats) the top of my table so I will not smudge the pencil layout marks I made.

 

Below are a few pics.  Everything still dry fitted.  I will work on the stern post and aft deadwood pieces next weekend.

 

 

[AON]

Ordered 30 lb black monofilament from E-bay as suggested by a follower earlier. (thank you!!)

Even after adding in shipping and $US exchange it was cheaper than the big box stores up here!

The smaller stores I frequent do not carry black.

 

I decided on 30 versus 40 lb because it was listed on the website as being 0.023" diameter which scales exactly 1-1/2" diameter at 1:64

According to charts 30 lb should be 0.018 to 0.022" and 40 lb is 0.022 to 0.026"

Having checked the contract I have from 7/8" and 1-3/4" bolts so I think the 30 lb will look reasonable for any of these sizes.

 

Also picked up black tissue paper at Michael's at lunch today to simulate the tar covered flannel or horse hair where used.

 

Getting closer to assembly!

Edited February 24, 2015 by AON

[AON]

Short report of progress.

 

Cut out the stern post, false stern post. deadwood at the stern and keelson pieces.

By the time I was done a good portion is IMO no better than scrap.

I should feel bad about it but I don't.... because I feel I can do a whole lot better.

 

I learned a great lesson by it and am reminded of something I read here on another log: 'that you should treat each piece like a model'... so I will try a new approach.

 

This morning I re-cut ALL the paper templates

If time allows, as a good portion of Sunday is family day, I will mill a new piece of lath to the max width of the stern post.

Then I will cut and finish one piece at a time.

Concentrating on the one piece as there is no feeling of being rushed to get more than that one piece done.

Edited March 2, 2015 by AON

[druxey]

Festina lente. Make haste slowly: take your time. After all, this is more than a single weekend project! If i get to the point of impatience, I walk away for a bit and remind myself that, as you quoted, 'each piece is a model'. Even if I've only completed one piece; if it's up to standard, there's a feeling of accomplishment.

[AON]

I just cut and sanded the stern post and false (inner) stern post.

 

Left some material at the bottom of the stern post for the tenon into the keel.  The fit of these two pieces are perfect! (photos to be posted later)

 

 

I have not tapered them as yet.

 

I will wait until I have the stern post pieces together and then taper them as one.

 

 

The stern post assembly is 1'-11" square at the head down to the deck transom, and then tapers to 12-1/2" on the keel

 

The keel is 12-1/2" athwartships at the stern tapering from some "x" distance from the original 16" athwartships at midships.

 

 

As this is a mere 1-3/4 inches of tapering of the keel per side, which equals 0.027 inches at 1:64 scale I am not too worried about where to start any taper as no one will likely notice it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by AON

[Trussben]

I have learned that slow is actually fast in model ship building, rework is rework!

Take your time brother, it works out the same.

Make a part and be happy with it, you know the difference between what u think is acceptable and what is not.

 

Ben

[AON]

Below is the photo of last weekends Stern Post (1) and False Stern Post (2) along with the earlier Keel and False Keel

 

Today I made the Deadwood pieces and the Deadwood Knee (8) with one piece left to fit above it. Hope to have it done tomorrow.

 

You will note the one piece marked with the roman numeral (IV)... that's because I made this piece three times before it fit proper.  That little wedge piece was a tough one to fit.

 

I've to remake the Keelson pieces... yet to make the Rising Wood.... and taking a good long look at the Stem assembly pieces which were the very first parts made.

 

I think I may take another shot at them as I've been doing a slightly better job lately.  Milled down more hemlock lath but cannot seem to find another ceiling piece in the pile.  Those are thicker (1/2") and will mill down to the necessary 26 inches (0.4063" to scale).   Presently I am getting 24.8 inches (0.3875" thick).  The ceiling pieces must be at the bottom of the pile, under the tarp, covered with snow in my son's yard.

Somehow I don't think 1-1/8" inches (0.0188" = 0.46 mm) will make much difference in the end, but it would be nice to be a wee bit closer.  Possibly I can keep the inboard pieces.  I'll have to sleep on it.

 

Oh yeah... the monofilament line came it and it looks good!

Have to keep reminding myself to slow down as I am itching to glue something together.

[AON]

Today I cut and dry fitted the last two pieces of the stern deadwood and keelson (template items marked 9 and 10)

 

 

I also cut two strips 8" thick (1/8" to scale) x 22" wide (0.3438" to scale) for the rising wood that sits on top of the keel.

Actually my pieces are ever so slightly larger (approximately 0.01" in both thickness and width).

They would need to be cut to short lengths with scarph joints.  I will not do that until I am ready to glue and pin it together on the keel assembly.

 

Today, I also remade my boxing joint piece.  This would be the third time.  I had trimmed too much on the upper scarph joint.

 

 

I have also been busy doing something very constructive over the last two weeks. 

Never having been able to sit down and read nor understand the complete build contract I decided to transcribe it (type it out)... only the first 21 pages as the last few pages are payment schedule details that will not affect my build.

 

I've added some spelling corrections for today in brackets next to the questionable words; below each paragraph I've added explanations and descriptions for unknown words or phrases and I've added reference books, pages, image information so when I am at the point in the near/far future I can find it again quickly.

 

Presently I am transcribing page 20 of 21... this would be typed page 57 for me.

I've attached a PDF of the first 3 typed pages to give a better sense of what I mean.

 

Making Sense of the Contract.pdf

Edited March 15, 2015 by AON

[druxey]

Well, Alan, you have been productive! After you've been reading contracts or 18th century printed matter for a while, you automatically 'tranflate' the long 's' as you go and don't give it a moment's fecond thought. See?

 

Re-makes are as standard procedure for a quality model. You'll be glad you didn't just let it go. Otherwise it'll come back and bite you later on.

[AON]

Thank you Druxey.

The long 's' and I are very  good friendf prefently..

When I sat down to start I made a decision on exactly how I would approach it and I was committed to correct each long 's' and so I have.

Then there was 'rabbit' and 'fastned' and.... the list goes on.

I am very happy I have done this otherwise the darn contract would still be a myftery.

I found reading it was like reading The Last of the Mohicians... the longer I stuck with it the easier the language prose became.

 

I will admit to being a bit hesitant to start gluing and pining parts.... but I can see myself starting very soon... visualizing.

My son claims he found some thicker lath in his pile late yesterday so I will be remaking the parts I must in the knee of the head and stem pieces as I start gluing and pining them.

 

Thank you all for following... it's going to get scary really soon.

Alan

Edited March 15, 2015 by AON

[mtaylor]

Scary?   Yes it can be intimidating, frustrating, and nerve-wracking.  Scary?  Nah.....  there's no monsters under the workbench.  I think.   I better check again.

[AON]

Gluing represents permanency that I will be looking at throughout the period of the build (5 - 8 years ???)

I hope to get it right but I'd hate to realize 3 years later I got it wrong.

That is the scary part... learning to live with it looking back at me.

Edited March 16, 2015 by AON

[druxey]

Courage, Alan, courage! Worry will simply render you immobile. Jump right on in. Mistakes - and there will be some, no matter how experienced you are - are usually correctable. Isopropyl alcohol (for dissolving glue, not for consumption!), ingenuity and patience are your friends, in addition to your friends on this site.

[mtaylor]

What Druxey said... What's the worst that can happen?  Seriously?  I just got done ripping off 4 strakes of planking because I grabbed the wrong width (wasn't paying attention) for the first strake and it threw the other 3 strakes way off... 1/16".    Go for it...

[AON]

Is it wrong to admit that I take great comfort in seeing the mistakes of more experienced modellers? (because I do)

It somehow makes them quite a bit more human... and so I move forward.

 

My son did indeed find thicker hemlock lath and brought it over last night so supplies are plentiful.

Edited March 16, 2015 by AON

[mtaylor]

Alan,

 

Mistakes go with the territory.  Have a look here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/814-how-i-fix-boo-boos-and-oopsies-mistakes-by-dan-vadas-share-your-own-fixes-here/   Danny set the tone.... we all screw up.    That one thread did a heckuva lot for my mental state as well as Remco's tagline:  "Treat each part as if it is a model on its own, you will finish more models in a day than others do in a lifetime." 
 

[AON]

Both had caught my eye some time ago Mark!

Edited March 17, 2015 by AON

[SJSoane]

 

Another huge source of comfort is to read in Rob Napier's book, The Legacy of a Ship Model: Examining HMS Princess Royal", how the 18th century model makers made mistakes, sometimes small and sometimes very big! Realizing that took a lot of pressure off, no longer looking for perfection that even the masters could not achieve.

 

Mark

[AON]

Good evening Mark.

 

I read your comment earlier today and of course it made a huge impression on me.

But now after some hours it seems like a challenge .... if only I had the talent!

 

On another more achievable note...

After considerable calling around I found a local source of 22 gauge solid copper wire (if I should chose to use it).

The only source is indoor telephone cable

I bought 12 feet at 20 cents a foot (= $2.40)

It is four strand so I have 48 feet in total.

A co-worker caught me checking the diameter with my vernier and asked what it was for.

After I told him he remarked that I should have talked to him as he has coils of it at home!

 

Isn't that the way it goes.... I could have bought a double-double with that money.

(I wonder how many are going to have to Google double-double?)

Edited March 19, 2015 by AON

[AON]

Good morning world.

Itching to get started this morning but cannot make noise while the better half sleeps.

Today I bite the bullet and begin drilling, pinning and  gluing.

 

My darling wife (the super sleuth) made a discover yesterday while working on her geology hobby tracing her and my family.

Seems one of my Irish ancestors (James Flynn) was sentenced to serve his term on a prison hulk.

While searching for him she stumbled on a 7 year old boy (William Flynn... no known relation) serving his sentence on HMS Bellerophon.

 

In her end years the Bellerophon (later renamed Captivity) was used to hold young boys as prisoners!

 

I always imagined these were military prisons, holding AWOL and mutineer sailors and such... was I wrong or what.

 

The attached reads 9 to 17 year old boys but William was 7 and he was recorded as having been there once before!!!

Edited March 21, 2015 by AON

[Mark P]

Lovely work Alan;

 

Hope that I will still have the determination to admit mistakes when I make them,  and scrap the piece concerned.  Well done to you!

 

Rather sad though to hear about the poor devils locked up in such circumstances.  It seems that although the official age of criminal responsibility was 10,  if it could be proved that the child knew what he/she was doing was wrong,  the age was lowered to 7.

 

Hard times.

 

Mark P 

[mtaylor]

Alan

 

Have you read The Billy Ruffian by David Cordingly?  It won't be much help with the build, but it is an excellent history including her days as a prison ship.