HMS Fly by Martin W - Amati/Victory Models - 1/64

[Martin W]

Hi Alistair -- I've looked at your bulkheads quite often.  I even made pilasters along the style you used, but then found that they were much, much too large.

 

And you're right, I did put the gunport strip on, but worried that it was in the wrong place so I took it off.  Then I started thinking that I might have an easier time installing the hatches, bulkheads, etc etc without the strips, so I haven't put them back on yet.

 

Thanks for checking in, and thanks to others for the likes.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Just a couple of quick photos.  First is of the 2 lateral bulkheads with the fore & aft set in between.  I've added door knobs, which I made from the heads of little nails.  They look a touch large, but I couldn't think of anything smaller.

 

                                      

 

Next is the ladderway.  As Spyglass has mentioned, this hatch is pretty narrow for a ladder.  This is a ladder from boxwood that I made using a jig Alan Yedlinsky describes.  I sanded the stringers down quite a bit to squeeze the ladder in.  It's all dry fitted for now.

 

                                      

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Hi Spy -- That's the foremost hatch on the Main Deck; I believe it's just aft of where the Forecastle will be.  I sized it just to fit the opening in the plywood.  If it looks too narrow, then perhaps coamings are too thick?

 

Thanks for checking in,

 

Martin

[Mirabell61]

Hi Martin,

 

the cabin bulkheads look great, a pitty they shall be not visible under the QD afterwards from outside

 

Nils

[Martin W]

Thanks Nils -- You're right about that.  But your own build has inspired all of us to think about the fine details of these beautiful ships.  Even if they're not visible, simply knowing they're there makes the build all the more enjoyable.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[aliluke]

Hi Martin

My fore ladder hatch is the same size as Spy's. Your ladder looks much better than the kit version - good move by you to remake it from scratch.

[Martin W]

Thanks for the compliment, Alistair, it's encouraging.  For the coamings, I cut down my boxwood stock to about 2.7 mm, which is notably thicker than yours and Spy's.  I'm not sure now how I came to that particular thickness, but this hatch would look better if it were thinner.  I might do another one this weekend.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

The summer is in full swing here on the prairie, so it's time to stay indoors, away from the biting insects and muggy heat, and cool off with some modelling.

 

The Capstan  -- Not surprisingly, FFM gives a good, detailed account of the parts to this piece.  One notable difference with the kit supplied capstan, is the number of whelps:  the lower capstan should have 5 whelps, and the upper capstan 6.  In reality this would necessitate a 10-sided barrel for the bottom capstan and a 12-sided version for the top.  FFM provides diagrams that can be traced and then glued onto the end of the stock to be cut for the appropriate part.  I don't feel the compulsion to detail my basic problems there -- they can be chalked up mostly to lack of skill -- but mostly it came down to trying to avoid butchering wood needlessly.  In the end, I opted for a round dowel that remained round.

 

For the whelps and trundleheads, I decided to use some heartwood.  I bought a chunk of this a while back for a few bucks, and wasn't sure what to expect.  It's truly red.  It isn't bad to work with, though does get a bit crumbly at times, as with this whelp:

 

                                     

                              That piece is destined for the scrap bin.

 

Here are a few more successful versions, unsanded to show the natural color of the wood:

 

                                     

 

And here is the lower capstan, in effect complete:

 

                                     

Right now it's dry-fitted, just to judge its placement.  The dowel visible at the top will theoretically connect to the barrel of the upper capstan.

 

And, of course, the bulkhead here -- #9 I believe -- is totally in the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[aliluke]

Nice work on the capstan Martin. The connection between it and the upper capstan cannot be seen when the QD goes on so I didn't even bother with it. Still I had to reduce the depth of the beam slightly to give it clearance over the lower capstan.

[Blue Ensign]

Nice looking Capstan Martin, like your contrasting woods.

 

I did connect the two capstans on my build, it required cutting a  half round in the deck beam. It gave me a small pleasure but as Alistair says it makes no difference once the qd is in place.

 

B.E.

[Martin W]

Thanks for checking in, Alistair and BE -- and thanks for the encouraging words, they mean a lot from you guys.

 

I put the false deck of the QD in place last night, along with the beam & the top capstan.  From the look of it, a frightening large half round will have to come out of the beam, and it'll have to be raised substantially as well.  Cutting out that ply wont' be fun, and I'm even surprised it is so low, given that the kit's capstan is about the same size as mine.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Very nice work Martin.  I like the use of the specialty wood - it gives a nice red color

[Martin W]

Mike -- Thanks for checking in.  If you have access to a Woodcraft store around DC or No. Virginia, you might check out their wood selection.  That's where I got the heartwood.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Martin W]

Greetings -- Just a quick update.  Having finished the capstan, and contemplating the stove, I thought I might also replace the DREADED gunport strips that I'd removed due to concerns over their height.  I also thought it would be wise to follow the advice of those intrepid path breakers who are well advanced in their Fly/Pegasus builds, and use a sample gun to check the height of the ports.

 

Here's a curious detail.  I gather that the Pegasus kit has walnut or walnut-ply laser cut pieces for the carriages.  Other Fly kits might have as well; and mine has instructions for the laser-cut pieces, but is actually supplied with metal carriages that are, well, to put it delicately, unsightly.

 

I bought some guns & carriages from RB, and have read accounts of Chuck's guns.  Here's a comparison of the RB & the kit-supplied gun:

 

                                  

 

The kit-supplied carriage is all one piece of molded metal.  There would be no way to fit the ring bolts.  The RB carriage, made of basswood, looks to be about the right dimensions, with the carriage sides (the brackets) at 1/4" high and 7/8" long.  The trucks, axletrees, and quoin are also supplied, but curiously no transom or anything else.  The trucks have that little post sticking out one side, so I assume the flat side would be glued to the axletree.

 

Not surprisingly, Chuck's site shows not only all the parts but also contains a nice PDF of instructions.  The gun barrels themselves also look more detailed.  And so . . . . I've placed an order, and await.

 

Of course, another option would be to fabricate my own carriages.  I'm not going anywhere, and the heat has set in on the southern plains, so there's time to think about this.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for sharing Martin.  I'm curious what you think about the RB guns versus Chuck's guns.  I think BE and Alistair concluded that the RB guns are probably perfect to scale, but it looked to me like Chuck's guns would be fine as well.  

 

Since you used the heartwood for the capstan, are you thinking about building the gun carriages out of heartwood as well?  I was hoping to avoid that, but if I'm going to use redheart for the bulwark planking, I don't know if I can stain the gun carriages to match the redheart and don't want different shades of red on my build.

[Martin W]

Hi Guys, thanks for checking in.

 

Mike -- I am indeed considering using the heartwood.  It can be a bit crumbly, but I'm hoping that I can cut some pieces along the grain to give the carriages strength.  The practicum I followed for the Rattlesnake included a section on fabricating the brackets, and I have reviewed that a little while ago.  I think it just might be a possibility.

 

Spy --  That's a good looking carriage.  Is it the walnut ply?  I would have been tempted to use the ply if it had been in the kit, but those metal carriages aren't any good.

 

Right now, everything is still in the realm of possibility (except for the metal carriages).

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Mirabell61]

Hi Martin,

 

I used RB carriages for mine as well, together with the 32mm Long 6-pounder gunbarrels. The Pivot Point of the gun Barrel does not come too high with those, so they wo`nt foul the upper inner gunport opening edge

 

Nils

[Martin W]

That's interesting Nils.  I actually ordered the 29 mm barrels from, following the lead of Blue Ensign. Now I wish I had also ordered some at the 32mm length, just to do a comparison.  Isn't the RB barrell 32mm? 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Mirabell61]

Yes correct Martin,

 

the RB Barrels are offered in different lengths. I chose the 32 mm length to fit the 20 mm Long carriages.

RB also offers small kits each comprising 4 Gun-Barrels and 4 carriages at a fair price

 

Nils

[Martin W]

Aha, Spy!  I thought those carriages looked as though they'd been modelled after the kit carriages, copying their lines onto the walnut.  But what really threw me were the eye bolts.  I guess I hadn't thought even that cheap-o metal would be soft enough to drill.

 

Nils -- did your RB carriage kits come complete with the transom, or how did you resolve that lack?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Mirabell61]

Martin,

 

I`m not sure what is meant with "transom", but the kit contains :   8 sidewalls, 4 gunbarrels with pivot pins, 16 wheels, 8 axiles, 4 tapered wedges.

The cap squares are not included

 

Nils

[Martin W]

Nils -- My understanding (from the diagram in FFM 1) is that the transom is the piece of wood forming the front of the carriage, with a concavity cut to cradle the gun barrel.  It would also provide support and spacing for the carriage sides.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[aliluke]

Hi Martin

There is a long discussion on cannons in my log - you may have seen it. I used 32 mm RB barrels and Syren Models carriages.

[Martin W]

Hi Alistair -- In fact, I've gone over that part of your log countless times (hmm, seems I've done the same with lots of other chapters from your log as well) -- I definitely count you among the "intrepid trailblazers" I referred to above.

 

Nonetheless, I'm still trying out a few ideas, none of which has succeeded: e.g., I just came in from my outdoor workshop (ambient temp, 98, on the Fahrenheit scale -- which I guess is something like 40 on the Celsius; doesn't matter:  it's hot), where I tried cutting some plugs with my full sized miter box.  No luck, since there's just enough give that cutting a 1/4" piece start off right and ends at either 7/32 or 9/32.

 

Still, I have one or two other ideas.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Mirabell61]

Hi Martin,

 

transom is understood, but no, not included. I just left it away as the barrel requires some space in the carriage front and the transom would not be visable from above anyhow

 

Nils

[Martin W]

Interesting Nils -- so what does the barrel actually rest upon?  I'm going to have to go back and study your photos some more.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

That's interesting Nils.  I actually ordered the 29 mm barrels from, following the lead of Blue Ensign. Now I wish I had also ordered some at the 32mm length, just to do a comparison.  Isn't the RB barrell 32mm? 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

Hi Martin, I used the 32mm RB Barrels,have I said somewhere that I used the 29mm ones? I also used the 15mm RBs for the Swivels.

 

B.E.

[Mirabell61]

Martin,

 

the 32 mm Barrel has its Major mass behind the Pivot Point, so it would like to Point upwards with the opening like it should. Leveling out and aiming is done with the wedge, and besides that the upper inner gunport opening Limits the Barrel to Point too much upwards (depends on the size of your port openings).

I put those metal hoops around the carriage wheels, which lifts the Pivot Point a wee bit higher anyhow.

 

Nils

[Martin W]

Hi BE, thanks for joining in.  Actually, what I recall you saying is that you would have used the Syren gun barrels had they been available back when you were working on the guns.  I took that as a slight leaning toward the Syren barrels.  Didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

 

I also ordered some swivel guns from Chuck, but can't remember the dimension off the top of my head.  They're pretty far down the road for me, but but it was convenient to add them to an existing order.  -- I'll also take this opportunity to mention that the simple jig you set up for assembling the carriages is one that I plan to copy.

 

Nils -- thanks again for that info.  In looking back through your log, I understand exactly what you've done, and it looks great.  The RB barrels do look exactly right on your build.  I also have to admire the initial mock up of the gun & rigging you did in advance.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Martin, yes I would have ordered some from Chuck had they been available, and I did so later, sometime after I had completed my guns.

 

As it happens, fine as they are I would have come to the conclusion they were not quite right for Pegasus.

 

Here's a comparison photo.

 

 

Both the Syren guns are excellent but the 29.9mm looked a little under scale to my eye, mostly in terms of its diameter, and the 37mm one obviously too large.

 

I would suggest you make them up and see how they look as a set on the deck of Fly, such perceptions may then disappear. In reality these guns were quite small, it took me ages to get my head around the fact that the carronades on Pickle were only 2' long.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.