Harvey 1812 by Floyd Kershner - Artesania Latina - 1:48 - 1812 Baltimore Clipper

[fnkershner]

Thanks for the comments. Blackie I would still like to see your drawing. There is never to much information. And now I agree with you that I should have started tapering at the bow sooner. As it is now the remaining width at the bow is almost exactly 1/2 the width at frames 6 & 7. And the width at the stern is almost exactly the same as the width at frames 6 & 7. So if I am careful there should be no need for stealers going aft. Now the Bow is the issue. Simply tapering will not get the job done. And even a drop plank doesn't seem to be the right answer. I should also mention that I have made my share of paper and card planks as well.

 

Bob - I completely agree. Our issue is unique in that we want a continuous run from bow to stern. Not what you would see on a real ship. I think I have decided that all of my future builds are going to be coppered or painted. For this model I am finding that out of a 1 3/4 inch wide plank I can get about 3 planks that is approx. a 50% yield. so I am spending quite a bit of time in front of the thickness sander.

 

I must also confess I was quite surprised when I cut my first spiled plank. I could not believe the curve (as you can see in the picture). I said to myself there is no way it will fit. But too my surprise if fits very nicely and looks good too! The only reason I have not glued it in place is I want to make sure I have enough lumber that matches.

 

I should also mention there is no way I would even consider doing this with out my trusty Model Machines table saw and thickness sander. I have quick a canister full of Walnut saw dust.

[ASAT]

Floyd, by now you have figured out that you can edge bend and taper or spile - I took the easy road and edge bent and tapered, I started at the wales and worked my way down, admittedly, I had to add a "filler" plank but it is low enough on the hull that you would have to pick up the model or bend down real low to see it..... to me, it still makes for a pleasing planking job, symmetry and consistency being the key. The overall look is what the eye is drawn to, I would say the rigging and deck fittings will attract the eye more than the planking. Only the most discriminating eye would ever know that you did not follow the rules....  unless that is the audience you are trying to please....  good to see you are making progress though, look forward to more...

 

Lou

[fnkershner]

Lou - In this case Edge bending is too extreme. Part of the reason it has taken me so long to get to this point is that I tried to do this without Spiling. I did do some edge bending and you can see that on the lower hull. Well I am committed now and I am learning about Spiling.

[Blackie]

Floyd

I have attached a few shots of my Harvey plus the drawing to illustrate what I did. I have 22 planks at about the centre from bow to stern and these run from bow to stern, except where 3 planks change to 2 as shown in one of the photos (Harvey Bow). That means I have 21 planks at the bow. The main thing is to not taper the plank more that half its width.

At the stern I have 25 planks. This should not have happened. I probably could have done it with 23-24 but I must have over-tapered and 3 stealers were inserted. 

I tried to do the system in chapter 3 of Donald Dressel's book Planking Techniques for Model Ship Builders but lost my way a bit. Still, I'm pretty pleased with the result. The drawing I have attached is from Historic Ship Models by Wolfram Zu Mondfeld.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Blackie

[fnkershner]

Thanks Blackie, I am even more impressed with how you met the stem. Very clean, did you create a rabbit?

[Blackie]

It is so long ago since I laid the first plank layer that I forget exactly what I did. However, from memory I know that I did not cut any rabbet but did have the stem projecting past the first layer of planks to fit the second layer into. I guess I had a sort of ready-made rabbet.

 

On my Harvey I am slowly working on the foremast yards. I have decided to add studdingsail booms to the lower yard and am now making some boom irons - fiddly work! Hopefully I can soon start to assemble the catheads, bowsprit, jibbom and foremast plus the relevant rigging.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Blackie

[fnkershner]

Blackie - How do you decide where to terminate your dropped plank?

[Blackie]

Floyd

This is what I did when I planked my Harvey:

I fitted the garboard strake then the first plank down from the wales, which is a full width plank. I divided the rest of the hull into two (some do three) by fitting a batten at about the halfway line. The batten is fitted with planking screws so that it can be easily removed. This batten is located where it fits best as the run of the plank takes it but still be about halfway over the length of the hull.

 

The two sections to be planked are treated much the same as follows:

At each frame I measure the length of the hull between the batten and the top or garboard strake. I used a flexible dressmaker’s tape to do this. My planks were 5.5mm wide so I divided the hull lengths by 5.5 to get the base number of planks in each section. No plank can be less that half its full width when it reaches the stem and this could have a bearing on the number of planks.

 

Every plank was supposed to run from stern to stem so I used proportional dividers over each length to determine the plank width at each frame. I transferred the calculated plank dimension to the plank at each frame mark and cut it to create a tapered plank. After each plank was fitted I remeasured the length at each frame and used the dividers (adjusted to the new total number) to find the plank widths for the next plank. They fitted reasonably well but the walnut planks have a strong grain that can have a mind of its own and I needed to be careful to not allow the grain to determine the cut line.

 

The widest length on the Harvey is at the stern but otherwise it is about 1/3 from the stem. This can give you a plank that widens then narrows slightly before widening out to its full length at the stern.

 

Of course the best laid plans and all that went astray – as the gaps narrowed I realised that I could not fit in all of the planks without reducing past the no-go “half width” point. I must have been cutting the planks at the stem a little wider that they have should been. I was going to have to drop out a plank or two.

 

So to finally answer your question, there is no exact point at which to stop the plank. From memory I chose a point near the stem where 3 tapered planks would be about equal in width to 2 full planks (perhaps a little less, say 1¾) and still allow 2 of the 3 planks to run to the stem and finish about half width to look about right with the others already there. In my case this point is a little over half way from the keel to the wale and about 55-60mm from the stem at that line.

[fnkershner]

Ok I did almost exactly the same thing you did. Except I divided the hull into 3 instead of 2. I also use proportional dividers and I marked the width of each plank at each bulkhead. I first started planking from the bottom. I must admit now that I should have started tapering a bit sooner than I did. I also agree that it is almost a straight line from Bulkhead #7 to the stern. But if you look at the pictures I posted above you will see that a full size plank laid at the wale almost immediately climbs completely above the plank above it. This is why I felt the need to Spile. And If you look at the Spiled plank you see how much curve is needed for that plank.

 

The opposite problem presents itself from the keel. the plank almost immediately climb so rapidly that I may have to create a stealer for the stem. Or Spile.

[Blackie]

Your run of bottom planks to the stern looks OK but it does look as though the unplanked gap at the stern is a little less than at say frames 7 & 8 so you might need to taper – it could just be the angle of the shot.

I have looked closely at my Harvey and see that right at the stem the second plank is tapered by half, as is the next one down. I also remember that I had to apply a little “force” to get them to follow the curve and to sit neatly against its neighbour and flat on the hull. I was getting the same problem that you have outlined – planks rising up the hull.

 

Can I ask you to define “spile”? Not a word with which I am familiar but assume you mean taper.

[fnkershner]

Spile is when you create a plank from a wider sheet of wood typically 1 1/2 inches to 3 inches. This plank has a significant curve in it. It may also have a taper. If you look at the same pictures I posted you will see a plank laid in front of the hull that has been spiled. When you look at it laying in front of the hull you cannot believe that it will fit on the hull. But it looks great once it is in place. the only reason I have not installed it is that I want to make sure I have enough similar lumber to complete the hull this way.

 

I see that I got a bit side tracked in this conversation and forgot to post my spiling steps. This should help. I will do that tonight. And many thanks to Chuck for his support along the way. The plus is I finally had a chance to use my French curves.

 

Blackie I will tack this plank in place and take a picture to show you what I mean.

[Blackie]

Thanks Floyd

I will wait to see your comments. Meanwhile on my Harvey I have moved onto the spars and rigging and I have developed an Excel spreadsheet to enter and calculate rigging sizes from real ship to model sizes. It also shows locations, numbers and sizes of hearts, dead eyes and blocks. It is still a work-in-progress but I would appreciate any comments, so can I send it to you?

Blackie

Edited November 8, 2013 by Blackie

[fnkershner]

Wow! I would love to see such a spreadsheet. In my spare moments (and while cussing at the planking) I have been doing research and thinking about my deck furniture and rigging. Please do send it to me!!

[fnkershner]

Ok Blackie as promised here goes.

 

In addition to the steps above as you describe. I took 2 inch wide packing tape and laid it from the stem to the stern. One of the reasons for doing this is 2 inch wide is hard to bend laterally. I want the tape to lay as straight as possible. I also want it to cover one of the bands that need planking.

 

Now for the next step there are many ways to do this I will describe what I did. The goal is to transfer the bulkheads and the edges of the planking to the clear tape. One of the easiest ways is to use a pencil and just mark the top and bottom of the area to be planked on the tape. In my case I used my proportional dividers to mark the hull with the bulkheads and the edges of each plank. I then transferred these tick marks to the Tape.

 

Now peel the tape off the hull and lay it on a wide plank. So that all the tick marks show and are on wood. You will discover that when the tape goes from a curved surface to a flat surface the tick marks now form a curve.

 

Next as you can see in the picture below. Use a French curve to connect the tick marks. and cut the plank out of the sheet of wood.

 

The result will be a plank that is both tapered and curved. and it fits wonderfully on the hull. and it looks straight!!

 

PS all of the above is the result of patient help from Chuck! THANKS! 

 

Now all I need is more wood

 

In this photo you see the French curve, the tape and a sheet of wood to cut the planks from. You also see a completed plank.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[capnharv2]

I guess I better go find some. . .

[fnkershner]

Ok, It has been a long time since I have made an update here. I have received several 3 inch wide sheets of Walnut from Jeff at Hobby Mill. They are amazingly beautiful with very tight grain. I should have started here sooner. Now that all my holiday shopping is done and all the house guests have come and gone. I am committed to getting these last 16 planks on the hull before the end of the holidays. I will carefully document each step for those who find planking as challenging as I do.

 

By the way I have sworn I will never again do a double planked hull. In fact all the kits on my shelf require copper or paint. Yeah!

 

The fact that Nirvana is about to catch me with a kit that I sold him is also a motivation. So here we go!

 

I should also mention that I have not been completely away from model building. A friend from work has purchased 2 T37 R/C sailboats and we are very close to completion on the first one. Tomorrow we will complete the rigging. That should leave the installation of the R/C electronics, which I think he can handle.

 

Step 1. Lay clear Packing tape the length of the hull so that it covers the area that needs to be planked. In this cast I have take that 1.8 inches wide so I needed 2 rows of tape overlapped. See first picture below. You will note the packing tape in the photo.

 

Step 2. Using a sharp pointed marker mark the top and bottom of each bulkhead on the tape. This has proved a bit frustrating since I have not found a marker that does not wipe off the clear tape.

 

Step 3. I have cut a legal size manila file folder into 3 inch wide strips to simulate the walnut provided by Jeff. I should also mention that I ran Jeff's wood thru the thickness sander to get it down to .5MM thick.

 

Step 4. Now I took my proportional dividers and marked off all of the planks. The last 2 photos show the result.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Floyd Kershner

[fnkershner]

Now comes the Hard part -

 

Step 5. Cut out the planks. Use a French curve for the bow.

[Blackie]

Good luck Floyd - nearly there!

I see in your signature that you have on the shelf the Endeavour which I assume is Cook's Endeavour. If so, when you start it remember that I work very, very near the replica and could get some photos for you anytime you want. Just ask. The attached image is of the Endeavour's bow and when I saw it I thought of our discussion about tapering planks and stealers. It is very instructive even if the hull is a very different shape from the schooner. The image is in an article in the local museum's magazine written by the shipwright who built the replica. The museum now owns the replica.

 

[fnkershner]

Blackie that is so kind of you. I wish I was there and could go out for a sail on that wonderful ship. Also the picture tells so much about her planking. Very nice and what an inspiration.

 

Now I have to inform you that what I have on the shelf is not this ship. But instead she is the 1:35 version of the America's cup J boat. After watching the log on this forum for the same kit I am leaning to doing her next. She should be fun and hardly any rigging. Also lots of paint to cover my planking.

 

Thanks for your comments on my Harvey. I do hope to have the paper planks today. They should build confidence and become great templates for the real planks.

[Blackie]

Floyd, no worries. Your comment about Endeavour roused me to search my shelf and there I found an old kit for Shamrock V, the first British J class boat. I must have bought it about 20 years ago and have never started it. Maybe it's about time!

Merry Christmas and great modelling in the New Year.

[fnkershner]

Wow! what scale is it? is it POB? this is very cool. Unfortunately you will finish your Harvey before I do. So we will not be building J boats together. I can't wait for you J boat log!

[Sailor1234567890]

Great pic of her bow.

[Blackie]

Floyd, just back from a few days off. My J class boat model is 1:80 scale so much smaller than yours. Also she is a solid hull so no planking - simpler and easier. I must admit that I had completely forgotten about it - just need to practice my spray painting techniques.

[fnkershner]

Can you believe it? It was a week ago that I was going to cut out the spiled planks for the Port side hull. I wish real life would get out of the way of my modeling. Well as mentioned above. I had had my fill of mistakes so I was going to use heavy paper instead of wood until I was satisfied. Well obviously I had plenty of time to think about it while going out to dinner with friends and entertaining house guests. (don't tell them what I was really thinking about). anyway I decided that since the lines came out so nice on the paper. I would just this as a guide and cut both paper & wood at the same time. I carefully clamped everything down along with a metal ruler and French curve. I put a new #11 in the knife, and off I went. Here are the first 2 planks. I am pretty happy.

 

Now time to cut the remaining 6 planks and get them on the hull. Hopefully today!

Edited January 1, 2014 by Floyd Kershner

[ASAT]

Hallelujah Floyd!! Good to see some progress, now don't get sidetracked by all the football on this weekend....  

 

Lou

[fnkershner]

Lou - No chance of that. In my house I am the football widow. I would rather be modeling. So dare I say it? I might just have all the planks on by Monday. I do have to work tomorrow and Friday . But I expect to have light duty so I might sneak home early. All 8 planks for the port side are now cut and soaking. I think I am getting to like spiling! Did I really say that!! :o

[Blackie]

Well done Floyd. At this rate you will catch me as I have been a bit slow while enjoying the outdoors in this Australian summer.

[fnkershner]

So Like most of us. I spend much of my time thinking about up coming steps. I still need to plank the ships boat. I don't want to use the same walnut strips for this. I think I would like to switch to Pear or Holly or something like that. what I would like to know is what is the best light colored wood for this planking. Needs to bend well etc. Ideas?

[Blackie]

Floyd

I know what you mean about the walnut planks. I used them for my ship's boat because I wanted the same colour as the schooner hull. I cut the 6mm wide planks to 4mm which gave me a 3mm exposed plank width. I abandoned the whole of the kit model and built mine from scratch over a balsa wood mould. However, the walnut planks were sometimes a bit fiddly even after I tapered them and were often difficult to glue to each other, especially as I had no frames. The boat was built as a real boat would be built with the frames added after the planking work.

 

That said, the attached image shows some timber that came with my kit which I used to plank the bulwarks. The kit says it is mukali and it is quite blonde, in fact yellow. The strip is 4mm wide and as you can see, very bendy. The internet says that the colour of mukali can vary from yellowish white to pale pink-brown so perhaps you would need to see exactly what you are getting. Anyway, it is very flexible and mine looks good. 

 

Another option could be flexible beech except that it might be a bit pricey.

[DBorgens]

Floyd,

Glad to see the progress, I confess I haven't checked in a while. Planks look good and I expect to see a well done hull next club meeting.

 

Dave B