Help Rigging Flags

[mkmossop]

I've attached a couple pics of the plans in my model kit (Santa Maria) for flag rigging.

 

In the first picture I'm not sure what 116 and 127 are. I assume at least one of them are the wooden balls shown in the third picture. But how should I attach these to the mast? Just glue them straight on? Or tie them on with thread? Also how would I attached them to the main mast on the top?

 

Also why do I need two of them per mast? Going by the second picture I loop the rope from the flag through one of the balls and attach it to the ship. So what is the second ball there for?

 

Also should the rope from the flag not actually be tied to the ship? In the picture it's just a continuous rope which is I guess tied to itself?

 

Thanks for any help!

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by mkmossop

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Flag hailyard line is going to be the thinnest rigging on the whole ship. I don't know the scale of the model you are building but its likely you don't need any special blocks secured aloft for the flag hailyards on your model, the real ones would be smaller than the palm of your hand. Your plan seams to  indicate a ring at the masthead, if this is intended for the flag hailyard I would omit it. The ball at the top of the mast is called the Truck. Often the truck on an actual ship has the sheaves for two flag hailyards cut into it. Otherwise the Truck is merely ornamental. Its likely that if you have a kit supplied truck that it will be too big and out of scale, find something at home that is the right size- the Truck should not be more than a few scale inches wider than the masthead itself. If it was me, I would run a single line of the smallest thread I could find directly to the Truck. Rigging generally belays on deck in such a way that the higher up in the rigging the line originates, the farther aft it belays on the rails at the bulwarks. So your flag hailyard at the masthead is the highest bit of rigging on the mast and should be belayed farthest aft of all the rigging for that mast on the rail.

[popeye2sea]

To answer the last part of your question.  The halyard actually has two ends.  The upper end has a toggle and the lower end an eye.  When no flag is bent on it indeed forms a continuous loop.  The top of the flag would have an eye and the bottom of the flag has a toggle spliced on a short tail rope.  So to bend a flag onto the halyard the toggle from the halyard is put through the eye of the flag and the eye of the halyard is attached to the toggle on the bottom of the flag. Thus you maintain the continuous loop but now you have a flag hooked in between the two parts of the halyard.  Both parts are belayed together on the same pin.

[testazyk]

I agree with Frankie and Popeye. 

[Ulises Victoria]

The "balls" usually have a hole on them, so you have to file the upper part of the mast to a diameter such that it would insert into the ball hole. A drop of glue is all that's needed, and there is only one "ball" per mast at the very top. Not sure if the parts in the last photo are the 116 parts in your diagram, but in my opinion, not likely. 116 parts are more like... well... balls.

Hope this helps

[mkmossop]

Thank you for all the replies. So... those wooden balls I posted in my first post would seem to be to scale to fit as the truck. So how would I attach them to the top of the masts? Just glue them on? Also how would I attach one to the "top" on the main mast?

 

Im having trouble visualizing what popeye posted. I dont believe my kit comes with any toggles, so basically I thread the rigging from the top of the flag through the truck on top of he mast, loop it around through something attached to the deck back through an eye splice at the bottom of the flag? Im having trouble visualizing it I need to see things to really understand.

Edited August 28, 2014 by mkmossop

[Ulises Victoria]

Thank you for all the replies. So... those wooden balls I posted in my first post would seem to be to scale to fit as the truck. So how would I attach them to the top of the masts? Just glue them on? Also how would I attach one to the "top" on the main mast?

 

The "balls" usually have a hole on them, so you have to file the upper part of the mast to a diameter such that it would insert into the ball hole. A drop of glue is all that's needed, and there is only one "ball" per mast at the very top. Not sure if the parts in the last photo are the 116 parts in your diagram, but in my opinion, not likely. 116 parts are more like... well... balls.

Hope this helps

[mkmossop]

I was under the impression that the rigging line from the flag went through the hole in the ball. If the mast goes through that hole then where do I rig the thread through?

[HIPEXEC]

After you rig the flag, you'll have to shape it to make it look real. I studied flags flapping in all kinds of winds before I figured I'd be hard pressed to imitate the real thing.

[popeye2sea]

As was mentioned above.  The truck was fitted to the top of the mast with a mortise.  Kind of like the way that the cap fits on top of the lower mast.  The shape of the truck is an oval (or a rectangle with rounded ends) with the narrow sides fore and aft.  The ends have a sheaves let into them to take the halyards.  The truck could be topped with a round finial for decoration.

 

Pardon my crude pictures

 

Flag with eye and toggle

 

Flag halyard detail

 

Mast truck

Edited August 28, 2014 by popeye2sea

[mtaylor]

After you rig the flag, you'll have to shape it to make it look real. I studied flags flapping in all kinds of winds before I figured I'd be hard pressed to imitate the real thing.

 

Rich,

That's one of the "easy" parts...  just get an empty aluminum can, shape it the way you want the flag to look.  Lay the flag on the can and coat with lacquer or 50-50 mix of white glue and water or spray with starch.  When it dries, pull it off the can and you have a flag that appropriately flapping.   You'll have to figure out the best way for you.

 

Hahn, used the aluminum itself.. either can or foil he doesn't specify and then he painted the flag on the metal and used that for his flag.

[mkmossop]

Thank you all again... very helpful... especially the pictures.

 

Here is what I got done. I made the toggles myself since my kit didn't come with any... I'm not sure if they're too big. I haven't attached a toggle to the end of the halyard to put through eye of the flag yet but I will.

 

I wasn't totally clear on how to rig to the truck. I tried attaching a brass ring to the mast but it kept falling out, so I ended up just drilling a hole through the mast. I'm in a hurry to get this done as I'm leaving town for several months in a few days so I just rushed it. I don't think it looks too bad like that anyway.

 

Edited August 29, 2014 by mkmossop

[mkmossop]

Rich,

That's one of the "easy" parts...  just get an empty aluminum can, shape it the way you want the flag to look.  Lay the flag on the can and coat with lacquer or 50-50 mix of white glue and water or spray with starch.  When it dries, pull it off the can and you have a flag that appropriately flapping.   You'll have to figure out the best way for you.

 

Hahn, used the aluminum itself.. either can or foil he doesn't specify and then he painted the flag on the metal and used that for his flag.

 

The water-glue mixture doesn't discolour the flag?

 

Anyone else have any other methods?

 

Edit:

 

Just found this method, which seems like it would give good results:

 

http://www.modelwarships.com/features/current/flags/flags.html

Edited August 30, 2014 by mkmossop

[mtaylor]

The water-glue mix dries clear. I've used this method on both my Wasa (cloth flags) and my Constellation (paper flags). 

 

I'm sure there's as many methods as there are builders.  I guess the question is, what kind of flags?  Decals?  Cloth? Paper?

 

You will need to test any method to check for color fastness of the printing on the flag, however;