Swift 1805 by giantdog - Artesania Latina - first build

[divarty]

Hey Giantdog, just spotted this build and thought I would pull up a chair and follow along.  Everything looks great so far and Keith is giving you excellent advice!  I really love the thread between the planks, it really makes it pop.  Looking forward to seeing the build as you progress.

[giantdog]

Do you want the good news or the bad news first

 

Lets get over the bad news first, as its not so bad, first it's garboard (Garward is actually a builder on MSW from the Ukraine building a Montanes) anyway, the garboard is a piece of cake compared to the plank next to it.

Not so bad, It does require quite a lot of lateral bending at the bow to get to the keel line.

 

The good news. The plank looks perfect. You nailed it on the ending spot so as not to crowd the bow or stemline.

 

Something that may help fit the second plank, once bulkheads are marked and the other side garboard is on, is to sand the garboard plank bow ends edge with a sanding block and get that as straight as possible, this will reduce the edge/lateral bending required. Once you get going, its like falling off a log, just much slower.

 

and again, she looks Great. Your time and efforts are paying dividends. 

Garward 

I'm such an idiot, thanks for the correction.

 

I've got the plank on the other side now. The twist doesn't match up as well as I'd like, I'm currently considering what to do about it (probably see what it looks like after sanding).

So it's out with the planking fan to mark out the bulkheads but not before checking out the other swift build logs I'm following.

[giantdog]

thank you all for your encouraging comments, it really does help spur me on.

[giantdog]

Quick question

 

 

Did no one put a plank half way between the sheer plank and the garboard plank?

[themadchemist]

No such thing as an idiot, just those learning a very difficult nautical language. I use to call the transom counter (that curved part under the transom) the curvy part of the transom   It's all part of learning. Not trying to point out faults, just help with the language I know....and there's still a lot for me to learn.
 
Half way, I think that was the last plank I laid.

Are you thinking of Battens, which are usually placed at certain distances along the hull. These are typically used to check the lay of the hull during fairing and to test the future fit of planking. On a hull as small as the swift I think its an unnecessary step.
 
Here's a boat lined with temporary battens

[themadchemist]

Oh and your comment on helping out and encouraging. Your Welcome, but....

 

I'm a disabled teacher and nearly homebound (no drivers license for 7 years now) from lyme disease. My helping out is purely a selfish thing, as was me being a teacher. Helping others helps me learn and it gives me self worth and gives my life meaning. Plus there's the added pleasure of friendship which develop.

 

Selfishness is only negative when it becomes for things or objects, rather then for relationships and learning. I prefer to see everything very open-mindedly and very subjectively. For me its all relative, you help me as much as I help you and that's how the world progresses.

[Grimber]

I think Giantdog means the Master Plank which is the plank that follows the turn of the bilge,  the dividing plank between upper and lower hull

 

fan planking method doesn't account for a master plank

Edited November 3, 2014 by Grimber

[themadchemist]

not sure I've ever heard of a Master plank as you describe Tony and looking through resources and online don't see anything either.

 

On gun ships there are gunwales and the deck has thicker planking usually for gun tie down points (not sure the name) but I've never seen or heard of a master plank in the hull referred to, do you have a reference as now you've sparked my interest.

[hircsailor]

 I just checked the instructions from my 1982 Swift kit and in A.5 second paragraph it says that the third plank to be put on appox. half way down the frames is called the Master Plank as it sets up how the other planks need to be shaped.

[themadchemist]

It may very well say that, and honestly there may be a master plank but it sounds like something that AL made up.

To be honest I quit using the instructions at nearly the beginning as so much of the Swift is incorrect as to how a boat is actually constructed.

I guess I just don't accept AL as a source as they seem to get so much other stuff wrong. Nearly everything's a simulation.  

 

...and I couldn't tell you how AL says to plank because I put away the instruction way before that point. Frankly the help I received on MSW was so much better and the AL instructions so vague.

 

Again I'm not saying there isn't a master plank, just that I have never seen one mentioned. I checked my Oxford companion to ships and the sea and no mention. not in the other sources either. I also did a Google search for "master plank" and "master plank hull" and found nothing.

 

I love the AL Swift kit but as a jumping off bashing point, but can't imagine building her straight from the box. ...and I one day plan to revisit the Pilots with a historically correct POF. They are one cool working vessel and I'm growing to love the working vessels more then the war vessels.

[Grimber]

Yeah Al's stuff is iffy at best but I also went by the How to build model ships book and it mentions the same thing just didn't call that first plank the master plank.  I have a few books now on ship building ( real and model)  the modern books all seem to favor steps like the fan planking.  but many of the old books I have seen show dividing the hull into upper and lower with a plank along the bilge line and a few with the division right along the water line.

[giantdog]

 I just checked the instructions from my 1982 Swift kit and in A.5 second paragraph it says that the third plank to be put on appox. half way down the frames is called the Master Plank as it sets up how the other planks need to be shaped.

The instructions, I'd forgotten them  .

I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

 

Did no one follow this stage?

 

I must admit I've been using the forum for instruction and had genuinely forgotten the ship came with some.

Mind you the wife says to me all the time 'you never read instruction, is it a man thing?'.

Nothing new there then.

Edited November 4, 2014 by giantdog

[Grimber]

It may very well say that, and honestly there may be a master plank but it sounds like something that AL made up.

To be honest I quit using the instructions at nearly the beginning as so much of the Swift is incorrect as to how a boat is actually constructed.

I guess I just don't accept AL as a source as they seem to get so much other stuff wrong. Nearly everything's a simulation.  

 

...and I couldn't tell you how AL says to plank because I put away the instruction way before that point. Frankly the help I received on MSW was so much better and the AL instructions so vague.

 

Again I'm not saying there isn't a master plank, just that I have never seen one mentioned. I checked my Oxford companion to ships and the sea and no mention. not in the other sources either. I also did a Google search for "master plank" and "master plank hull" and found nothing.

 

I love the AL Swift kit but as a jumping off bashing point, but can't imagine building her straight from the box. ...and I one day plan to revisit the Pilots with a historically correct POF. They are one cool working vessel and I'm growing to love the working vessels more then the war vessels.

I now have 10 kits ( my cut off point too) and besides the ship in a bottle I haven't got any with guns.  Guess when I did the revel constitution back in the 80's I got turned off by them.  Besides I think non war ships have more interesting lines.  Most war ships look too similar where working ships ran from slim fast 'racing car' shapes to big old fat things.

 

It seems that AL uses this 'master plank' term in other ship kits too.  Considering how wrong many of these AL instructions seem to be would not be surprising they made up the 'master plank' term 

 

http://www.home.zonnet.nl/rascar/shiplog13.htm

 

this guys build log of his AL scottish maid mentions master plank as well (section 2 paragraph 3)

 

Oh and check out this guys planking on his boat using 'strip planking'.  not only the intresting pattern but he divided his planking by the bilge line

 

#32

Edited November 4, 2014 by Grimber

[themadchemist]

There's a million ways to plank a boat or ship and AL may have created the "master plank" idea or word, but to my thinking a full width master plank would
1) cause a huge crowding issue especially at the bow, which
2) would cause one to have to drop planks especially at the bow.... and
3) rather then having to fit 1 plank to 2 sides, if forces you to do 2 per side.
 
That last "whiskey plank" can take time to fit good and tight as your fitting both sides.
 
I actually got out the AL instructions and read ALL 3 PARAGRAPHS (WOW) on planking (BTW mine an 82' also). Talk about detail LMAO.

Now I remember why I didn't use them. The plans are worth way more then the instructions.

I hear the San Francisco AL instructions are just as bad but she's already being planned for a bash-fest.  A Spanish Piece in tribute to the Floyd, with painted sails as she may have been historically.
 
Actually adding the sheer plank is usually laid last in reality, but in modeling it isn't.
BobF's longboat log, illustrates this garboard up construction of a carvel planked hull and Ron's longboat for his onieda does also, but then its clinker plank and has to be constructed that way.
 
One of my reasons for starting to build is my love of R&D and applied physics. I may have went coocoo on the Pink Floyd theme, but the rest is physically accurate. The PF references may be out of scale (but maybe for a reason) making it caricaturesk, but the construction and rigging is and will be as it would function in reality, As understanding the applied physic of these vessels construction is a wide and deep subject I started with a fore and aft rig. Then on to a square rig with the SF. I'm definitely no expert, just asking lots of questions when I see anything new.
 
Also Tony, on the last link, the boat has chines, which changes everything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chine_(boating)

I build the Midwest dinghy to get a feel for how a chine lays. It was a fun build.

My canoe (1st build, with the bulging bottom) taught me the importance of narrowing planks through the curvature of the stem or there will be over crowding.

The long boat was the same, but it was more about understanding how to work with the particular woods and to see if I could pull off that scale.

Everyone should build one of those little buggers.

 

I feel discussions like this important to learning. I can't remember how many things students taught me, as I was always open to learning from all directions...and sometime new mind think more outside the box.

Edited November 4, 2014 by themadchemist

[Dee_Dee]

The problem with AL instructions is the same as with Corel - the translation was done by the editor / publisher who has minimal, if any knowledge about model ship building or naval architectural terms.  Further, it sounds like the translator was Italian who learned near perfect English from a book, but lacks conversational English.  I agree with Keith, AL made up the term 'master plank' and it should be a batten.  (FWIW, Mamoli instructions are a bit better.  Most interesting, is Mamoli instructions were translated into The Queens English.)  

Having some fun with Google translate:  If you translate 'batten' into Italian, one of the noun results is 'la assicella di legno'.  When you translate 'la assicella di legno' back to English, the result is 'wood lath' (the literal translation) or 'clapboard'.   

 

Having some more fun with the paragraph hircsailor referenced from the AL Swift instructions.  (At times, these instructions sound like they were written by a politician.......)  

AL instructions are in black, my comments are in red

 

 

Note:  Planking should be done one at a time alternatively for Port & Starboard, to avoid possible distortion. 

Good advice!  In addition to avoiding distortion, make sure both the port and starboard planks are even / same height.   

 

After the second hull plank has been fitted to both sides of the ship, the third hull plank should now  be glued and nailed at the most convenient point and approximately half-way down.  Repeat the third planking operation on the other side of the ship in the same way.  This third plank is called the Master Plank and is most important because all other planks to be fitted will have to be shaped so that they will fit flush side by side with each other.

My first question is:  What is a 'most convenient point?

What AL calls the 'Master Plank' is actually a 'batten'.  If you decide to add a batten, the critical bit of info that is missing here is the batten needs to lay flat, no shaping / edge bending and follow the natural curve of the hull.  Additional information on adding battens can be found in build logs. 

However, as Keith mentioned, this is a small hull and can be easily planked using the 'fan' 'tic' method, with excellent results.  Also, skip the nails, just use lots of clamps.

 

This is due to the curvature of the hull and when near finished, some planks may have to be cut to shape before gluing and nailing.  Please note that planking should never be forced to take up an un-natural position against its own shape and for that it is much better to cut and shape where necessary and also before gluing and nailing. 

In reality, with the exception of the first / top plank, ALL planks should be cut to size and shaped before gluing.  

Here's a couple of fun photos from my current build.

I laid out 6 strips of art tape, (same width as the planks) on a piece of glass and fixed them with the strip of gold tape.  The tapes were transferred to the hull (parallel to the keel) and each strip of tape was then laid flat following the contour of the hull.   The views from the bow and stern show the curvature of the hull the best.  

 

 

 

 

It is frequently found that most cutting takes place nearer the stern part of the hull and that most shaping work of the gull planks takes place nearer to the bow of the hull.  

I pulled out my kit and added the bulkheads to the keel, it appears there will be cutting (reducing the width of the plank) the entire length of the plank.  Shaping is more commonly known as edge bending and there will be some edge bending on most of the planks. 

For a visual, here's a photo from my current build.  This plank started off as a straight strip of lumber, 5mm wide the entire length.  It was sized / cut to width using the fan / tic method.  It has also been shaped / edge bending to follow the contour of the hull, the bow end is angled to follow the stem and parts of the top edge is beveled, so it fits snug against the prior plank.  I will spend up to two hours shaping,fitting and beveling just one plank.

 

Where cutting and shaping has to take place it is often a good idea to draw the shape and cut it on cardboard first to make sure you have the right size and shape.  

Now THIS is FUNNY!!

The very last sentence suggests that for best results, the planks should be splied.  A boat load of info on splied planking can be found in build logs and here:  http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php 

 

But again, this is a small hull and it can be planked with excellent results using the fan and tic method.  

END.......................................

 

 

If your kit came with the 'Oregon Pine' for the first planking:  Pine does not like to bend, regardless of how long you soak it.  Save yourself a lot of frustration, use these strips to light your fireplace this winter and replace them with basswood strips of the same size.

 

Keith, it's funny you mentioned learning from different directions.  There's also learning from using different words.  For example, many years ago I used to show horses and I had a terrible habit of dropping my right shoulder.  When I dropped my shoulder, my horse would drop his leg and hit the fence.  My trainer kept on saying "get your shoulders back!"  One day, I decided to take a lesson with another trainer and after two fences, we had a quick chat and I never dropped my shoulder again.  The difference was words, she told me to 'touch your shoulder blades together.' 

 

Dee Dee

 

Edited 11-5-2014 to change photos.  When you click on these photos, you will now see a much larger photo.  In the photo of the plank, you can now see just how much this planked was shaped.   

Edited November 5, 2014 by Dee_Dee

[themadchemist]

Thank you Dee Dee, your expertise is always welcome and you photos help show an important point.
Your tape experiment is such an excellent tool and a visual way of understanding the complexities of planking lay.
I still can't help but see your tape experiment as a very unique method of making a mathematical aspect of hull shape and form mathematically visual. Just Brilliant.
 
Also, just 2 hours to shape that plank, I must work harder, as my time would have been double that. Your MBLS and Coquillier are 2 amazingly shaped hulls which really have given you a deep understanding as a builder. You have done an excellent job, relaying that information to others also. Your builds are jewels of information and I highly recommend their study for all new builders.

 

I've always loved when math, science and the real world collide and become applied, as I see it as the best way to learn. Most sailors never took a physics class in their life, but yet they are some of the best applied physics minds ever, due to their intuitive understanding of what to them was "just' a job.

[Grimber]

yes, very helpful.  gives me more to think on before I do my 2nd planking.

 

btw dee dee, have you ever considered doing a deep-V boat and do a finish like your tape work? 

[giantdog]

Absolutely fantastic explanation, thank you Dee Dee for taking the time to give such indepth input.

I'm learning so so much from you guys.

 

Thank you everyone who is contributing to my build log.

I genuinely would not be able to do this without you. 

[giantdog]

Marking out the bulkheads for planking using a planking fan.

 

Please let me know if I've got this step correct.

 

I cut a piece of thin card to fit the centre bulkhead (#5), this gave the true length of the bulkhead between the garboard and sheer plank.

 

 

I laid this card strip on the planking fan so that each end of the strip was touching a line. I slid the card strip along the planking fan until I had 10 planks (the space between each line represents a plank width).

I then marked the lines on the card strip.

 

 

 

Laying this strip with pencil marks back on the bulkhead I transferred the marks onto the bulkhead (please note the following photo is not bulkhead #5)

 

 

I repeated these steps for each bulkhead. It can be noted that the width of the planks will vary as the true length of each bulkhead is different thus the 10 planks will vary in width to fit.

Edited November 5, 2014 by giantdog

[giantdog]

I forgot to add some photos of the garboard planks.

 

 

 

false keel was thinned down to 2.5mm

 

 

The twist in the port side board isn't as smooth as the starboard side, still deliberating what to do about it.

Edited November 5, 2014 by giantdog

[themadchemist]

Excellent giantdog,

 

Marking is exactly as I would do it and I don't really see the asymmetry of the twist you speak of. If it is that subtle, sanding and scraping will take that right out.

Your on the path to an excellently planked hull.

 

Let the fun begin...um...oh my...IT ALREADY HAS

[giantdog]

Working on the second plank, the one next to the garboard plank.

Not sure whether it has a name.

 

It doesn't appear to need too much spilling (is this the correct term?)

 

The first step is to pre-bend the plank so that I can lay it along the bulkheads.

 

Soaked both ends of the plank in hot water for about 20 minutes.

 

 

Using the small engineers vice and a clamp put the twist in the stern end of the plank.

 

 

Using a cylindrical steel block, elastic bands and a second clamp, put the prow curve into the plank.

 

 

Now, this is one of the parts I like about model ship building. You wait.

I shall leave the plank until tomorrow to dry and take the shape, in this time I shall think. Think how I'm going to get this plank to fit, how I'm going to spill it, how I clamp it in place etc.

 

I'll keep you posted :-)

Edited November 6, 2014 by giantdog

[themadchemist]

Hello giantdog,
BTW what kind of dog is that, it looks like Marmaduke? I have a friend that had a 200+ pound Rottweiler called Bear and he was as gentle as a kitten, but didn't know how big he was.
 
I don't know of a name for this plank, maybe garboards brother  
 
It is a relatively easy plank to put on, except for the stem, where it edges and rounds the garboard to the stem. You will probably notice it will need edge/lateral bending to get it up against the garboard at the stem. As this plank hits the maximum curvature portion of the stem line, I found it a bugger to decide exactly how to have it meet the stem line. Plus it appears wider as it is covering more curvature. Once I passed this plank, there was no looking back and each plank increased my confidence, until I had became addicted to planking.
 
I just posted links to a series of videos on youtube done by Traditional Maritime skills and Marcus Lewis in my build log as there are many new builders at the moment. They are for a clinker built boat but there is a lot of information that is transferable. If the tick mark method is of any question, watch the series of 5 videos on lining off planks. For me watching the process is worth many thousands of words. It also made me want to build a clinker long boat. The addiction continues, so watch at your own risk  

I can't wait to see your next progress. Your foundation is good and you seem to have the patience required for the task at hand. Plus you seem to have the MOST essential part needed... your enjoying it.
 
As Remco states in the HMS Kingfisher log...
Treat each part as if it is a model on its own, you will finish more models in a day than others do in a lifetime.
http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/18-hms-kingfisher-by-remco-1770-english-14-gun-sloop-pof-148/?hl=remco

[giantdog]

Hi Keith,

 

He is indeed a Marmaduke aka a Great Dane and his name is Bram, quite an old boy now aged 9 (I lost my bitch Great Dane 2 years ago).

Believe it or not he's the smaller of my two dogs as I have an Irish Wolfhound too.

 

 

 

I've been working my way through the videos, they are brilliant.

Edited November 6, 2014 by giantdog

[giantdog]

Right, back to boats.

 

I've took the plunge and fitted the first of my 'next to the garboard' planks.

I forgot to take photos of the process I went through to come to the final fitting, I'll do that for the next post.

It may come across a little backwards, sorry about that.

 

The plank itself didn't actually need too much spilling (little worried about that), only the prow end needed work and I must confess at this point. I did apply sideways bending.

 

You can never have enough pins, I haven't used the tiny pins that came with the kit. Just hope the glue holds over time.

 

 

The lines seem quite nice.

 

 

Again at the stern at this point needed very little work?

 

 

Edge to edge fit seems good and of course glue was applied along the mating edges.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2014 by giantdog

[Grimber]

as long as the surfaces are clean and your getting a fair amount of glue on the bulkheads and between the planks it will hold. I used thinned down glue when glueing mine and have to confess that I have dropped the ship more than once and it has actually bounced off the concrete floor.  Now that I got the bulworks on I don't even dare knock it over on the work bench flimsy brittle old plywood.

[giantdog]

I've now fitted the other side (next to garboard) plank and will try and explain the process I went through.

Please keep in mind this is my first ever build so may not be the correct/best way to do it. 

I welcome all corrections to how I've gone about this.

 

1...I roughly cut the plank to length, making sure I'd left enough for final trimming.

 

 

2...Placed the straight plank along the bulkheads to see how it lies, to mark any places where spilling is required (on my build there was just a very small amount around bulkhead #6).

 

 

3...I soaked in hot water and as previous post put in the pre fit twist and prow curve. Once dry I dry fitted.

 

 

4...Now this is where I think I departed from the using 'scotch tape' method and used a combination of a compass and the marks I'd put on the bulkheads with the planking fan marked the spilling line on the plank.

(I hope this makes sense).

I notched the new plank to mate up against the garboard plank.

Then dry pinned it in place.

Using the opposite side plank as a guide I set the compass so that the needle point ran along the underside of the false deck and the lead to the top edge of the plank.

 

 

 

I then used this set-up to draw a line on the dry fitted plank, I kinda thought this would make the planks match?

 

 

Edited November 8, 2014 by giantdog

[giantdog]

This enabled me to trim/sand the plank to this shape (sorry, taking photos with one hand with my phone is a little difficult so there a bit blurred)

 

 

 

Once happy (ish) glue in place.

 

 

In a earlier post I mentioned that I had thinned the false keel down, I hadn't noticed this done on other builds but was worried that the keel would end up being rather thick once all layers of planking where in place.

With the first layer of planks mine measures 5.17mm

 

 

Here are a couple of photos of the first next to garboard plank.

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2014 by giantdog

[themadchemist]

Looking good gd,

As I made my keel, I seem to remember it being 1mm thicker then the kits, but what you've done on the stern will definitely help in sanding her to shape later, once the planking is in place. Some find this part repetitive, but as each plank is differently shaped they are all new experiences.

 

When I taught. friends would ask, doesn't it get boring teaching the same thing over and over. To which my reply was always NO, because every class has its own personality and its no different then share a life story with different friends. Planking is all about state of mind, some see it as a task to "just get through" where I prefer to see it as something to savor.

 

I also snubbed off the garboards and had a rather large gap, where your fix adjusted for that. As its under the keel, it's not a problem and building the simulated keel line without a keel and rabbet is always a compromise.

 

This is the one part of the build where I'd say, Staying with in the lines is important, otherwise.... let her show the personality of the Captain.  

[Grimber]

Your planking is looking great so far.

 

No I didn't thin my false keel either, I wasn't thinking or worried about the keel at the time, more thinking of getting the planks to go on without making a mess of it.