Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack by hexnut - Midwest Products - 1:24 - 1st wooden ship build

[themadchemist]

Hey Mario, so are you putting all the mortise and tenon with pegs in the planking, LOL.

This video is great, someone (was it you) posted it somewhere

 

I'll love seeing your progress on that one....and this one is a classic, but also a working boat at the same time, as it was most likely a fishing boat most of its life.

 

I agree Bob, your progress looks all forward to me. So what happened to the midwest kit? Poor thing, probably sitting in a box all dejected

[hexnut]

Harvey, those pump pictures are fantastic.  I've been playing with everything from scaled-down schooner pumps to adapted kitchen pumps, but the ones you show seem so much more realistic on a fin-de-siecle coastal fisherman/lobsterman's budget.  Whether or not they actually used this design in Bremen ME in 1890, I feel pretty comfortable putting something like this in the forward corner of the cockpit.  Thanks!! (I'm hoping to make a Maine trip sometime this summer, if it works out, I've got a couple 2g memory cards for the camera.)

 

Thanks Randy!  I was just checking out your SFII build, very inspiring, great work on the carriages/wheels.  I'm not nearly ready to tackle anything with that many masts and decks, but you have my admiration.

 

thanks Keith, indeed! Thanks for the video, what a great story.  The original kit is at the moment my hull-form mock-up, I don't know how many stock parts will make it into the final build.

 

Mario, thanks for the encouragement.  I only have to cut out 16 more frames and I will be up to where I was when I opened the box.   I am glad I did it, though, I'm starting to really enjoy this little jigsaw puzzle.

You're building a Galilee boat, that is awesome. I have been following what's been posted here avidly, I can't wait to see yours.  I think It's really exciting to work on something where the archeaology is still ongoing, getting more of an understanding of what everyday life was like in Jesus' time and place.

 

Thanks Tim, I appreciate it.  folks like Harvey, Mario and others have already gotten me much farther along than I would have bumbling around on my own.  I've always loved PT boats, looking forward to seeing yours take shape.

[riverboat]

Bob.... all I can say is "awesome"... you are definitely at the dark side...... you have taken this to another level... great work

oh yeah, your drawing ability is pretty darn good too!!!  

Frank 

[hopeful]

Hi Bob,

 

Are you going to use the kit or do a scratch build? Am enjoying your progress!!!

 

Cheers,

Hopeful aka David

 

"Standards set are standards met".

[pete48]

Hi hexnut, Looks like you went all in on this one, thanks for sharing all the info and computer modeling it gives alot of perspective of the actual hull shape. I will be building one of theses after I finish my Billing's Dragon. I was actually planning to build 2 at the same time because I cant decide weather to build as the box or do a smashed version to give it more depth and detail.

 

"May your sails be full of Wind and the Sun on your back"

 

Best Regards,

Pete

[hexnut]

So yeah, I haven't done anything for a while, been more of a modelurker than a modeller. 

The usual excuses, work has been kicking my butt, as in a lot of it. Since I'm self-employed, that is a good thing, even though I can't indulge my hobbies to a great extent... Anyway, whining over. (for now )  Although I haven't been making anymore wood scraps, I did a bit more cad work, allowing me to make templates for the fish wells. 

I also redid the cockpit area, as in checking the space available for a human, I found that there really isn't any using the Midwest cockpit floor height.  Props also to Dee Dee, who I believe had the definitive research source confirming the issue.

Here's a couple of screen shots...

[cdogg]

Great job on the computers shots!  I always wondered how deep the fish hatches went.  I know that in the kit the keel cuts right down the middle of the cockpit, I think reinforcing the sides with some wood to the keel will let you gut the top of the keel so you can make a open cockpit?  I am working on the same boat right now, more or less learning as I go.  

[pete48]

Hey Hexnut The cockpit floor on the Kit is correct, The Key To this build is to get the transom correct if you do that along with fairing all the frames before planking the cockpit floor will come out correct, I did get the cockpit floor to lay on the Balsa planking

Edited November 9, 2013 by pete48

[hexnut]

Thanks, Casey.  I'm learning as I'm going as well (although more learning than going at the moment.) 

As far as cutting away portions of the false keel, once the bulkheads are glued in and the side battens installed, it's a pretty sturdy assembly. I chopped away a lot of false keel and bulkhead material before I got silly and started making my own parts.

 

Pete, (Your MBLS buld is looking really nice, by the way.) It's not a matter of fit, but of ergonomics on the actual boat.  With the cockpit deck position shown on the Midwest plans, the top of the coaming hits a 1/24 scale person about knee height, with less than a foot of ht. difference between the seat and the deck.  One of the reasons I spent so long messing with the hatches is that I became interested in what the actual work flow was on a late 19th century lobster-catching set-up, which led me to the conclusion that a bit more cockpit depth would make for a much better arrangement.

 

This was the post that Dee Dee made in his build log that IMO summed it up nicely:

 

Cockpit Floor

I added width to the cockpit and esthetically it works, but it’s not right.  Per the Midwest blue prints, the cockpit floor is ~18” lower than the deck and the benches are 9” in height – not too comfy nor safe.      

 

Chapelle’s drawing shows the benches, but no floor.  On page 272, there is discussion about the floor:  “Five floors were the most used, and many boats had none.  The floors, if used, were of plank and were placed on top of the frames rather than beside them or were located clear of the frames and fastened to keel and planking.”  

 

Long ago we owned a four digit wood hull lightning built in the mid 1950’s.  I found some pictures of other Lightnings and the light bulb went on!  Check out the photos below. 

 

Chapelle’s comment is now starting to make sense:   “…..and were placed on top of the frames…”    I’m thinking the floor planks would look similar to this mock up.  This would drop the floor height to ~29” (top of the femur) making it safer, more comfortable seat height and much cheaper to build.

Edited November 9, 2013 by hexnut

[hexnut]

Here's a good illustration from G. Brown Goode's report: The Fisheries and Fishery Industries of the United States 1884-1887       

http://celebrating200years.noaa.gov/rarebooks/fisheries/

 

Note that the coaming hits about upper thigh on the lobster man.  Assuming 5' 8" tall or so, the cabin floor wants to drop a bit...

 

 

 

My apologies for the pedantry--hey I'm a nerd...

Edited November 9, 2013 by hexnut

[hexnut]

Getting the ribs sorted...

Edited March 18, 2014 by hexnut

[Dee_Dee]

Bob

 

I have been patiently waiting your next post and it was worth the wait!  Excellent!  

 

I do have two thoughts:  

There appears to be too much 'curve' on the deck. I'm thinking just a 2 - 3" drop (at scale.)

Where the transom and deck meet, there is no flat area.  I'll send you a couple of photos and some links.

 

I've done more research on the fish wells and their location.  I post this info soon on my build log - and it will be a BIG surprise! 

 

Looking forward to seeing more of your build!

 

Dee Dee

Edited January 23, 2014 by Dee_Dee

[hexnut]

Thanks for the comments Dee_Dee,  the pic may be a bit misleading, as it just shows the ribs. Here is a picture with "skin" on (including transom)

 

 

The camber may also look a bit exaggerated w/out planking on the sides, although my personal theory is it was a bit more than 2" over the 7' beam.  One of the things that led me to start making parts was that I felt that the stock kit didn't provide adequate camber.  In all truth, I won't really know until I have parts put together, so I did make the ribs a bit thick on top to give me room to knock the camber radius down if I need to.  I am REALLY looking forward to seeing what you found out about the fish wells, as I have drawn them up in CAD several times now and I'm still not really happy with what I've come up with.

 

In other news, even though I have had little time to work on the boat, I reached the "If I don't glue something together I'm gonna go nuts" stage, so here's a section of the bow made from actual bits of wood:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is only "rough-faired" at the moment, as I want to leave myself room to fair as the rest of the hull takes shape.

Edited March 18, 2014 by hexnut

[Dee_Dee]

Bob,

 

This looks fantastic!   

 

The camber only needs to be enough to drain off any water that has accumulated on the deck.  The 2-3" drop would be from the centerline, so a 2" drop over 3.5 feet would be 5% and a 3" drop would be 7%. 

 

Apprenticing Land and Sea has a good article about building a MBLS, here's the link:

http://apprenticinglandandsea.com/?p=207

 

This article has some photos, this link will take you to their Photo Bucket Album which has 52 photos (some are duplicates.)  These photos provide a lot of detail and should provide you with a lot of information. 

http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/Arista81/media/Muscongus%20Bay%20Sloop/MBScharitycolor_zpsf77def26.jpg.html

 

As for the fish wells, your shape, is fairly close to Chapelle's drawings.  As for the location of the covers, it appears the location on the Midwest prints IS correct.  It has to do with the way they fished.  I'll add more info on that when I add my deck. 

 

As for the centerboard trunk, have you figured that out?  If needed, I can send you a sketch on how it all fits together.  We used to own a old wooden boat with a centerboard, and I based my build on how that centerboard trunk was constructed and others that I saw.  In one of the photobucket photos shows the centerboard, it weighs 300 pounds (about right) and is only about an inch thick.

 

Also, before you add more frames, take a look at the 'mast shoe' I made to secure the bottom of the mast. 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/45623_10201348070725979_1000876754_n.jpg

 

 

This is really a facinating build!  Can't wait to see your next update!

[hexnut]

Thanks Dee_Dee, I have the 'apprentice' article, but I hadn't seen the photobucket album before--nice shots.

 

I think I have a good approach to the centerboard trunk, it will just take a while to execute at my present (glacial) pace. 

 

I have been going back and forth about a square or round mast base, I just put the tapered round on it so I could get the rake correct.  I swore that I had a decent photo of a Friendship interior with a square mast in it, but I can't find it. Do you have any "square step" photos?

[Dee_Dee]

This first photo (courtesy of Apprentice Land and Sea) shows the full length of the MBLS keel, including the centerboard trunk, (note the extra boards at the base of the trunk and the opening for the centerboard. )   Note the area where the Land and Sea Apprentice in the foreground is working and how the keel is built up.  The step is placed on the keelson so the weight of the mast is distributed.  On our boat, the step was a tight fit port to starboard with 3" of adjustment for the rake. 

 

As for square or round mast, the MBLS has no shrouds and a square mast and step would be the only means to prevent the mast from spinning around.   Here's a link with pictures:  http://www.davidjonesclassics.com/sail/2309/wings-of-the-morning-1967-31-friendship-sloop-38500/

 

 

 

This photo is from my build log and shows how I built the mast step.  After I cut away the excess false keel, I built the keel back up and made the step.  Only the bottom two feet of my mast will be square.      

 

 

 

Looking forward to seeing more of your build!

[hexnut]

Thanks for the photos, Dee_Dee, that interior mast shot in the Friendship was exactly what I was looking for. I also love the stove. Although I'm thinking of installing one like this:

 

  I think on my boat, I am going to give it shrouds. I know Chappelle said there weren't any, but I keep seeing pictures that have them, including the ones they made in the apprentice program.  The good thing about these boats is that there are as many variations as there were people who used them, as long as we make reasonably logical decisions, we should be "in the ballpark" historically.

Edited January 30, 2014 by hexnut

[timo4352]

Great stuff. Following your progress.

[hexnut]

Thanks, Timo! Hopefully there will be some progress at some point...

BTW, what is the rig in your avatar? I've never seen it before-- it's almost like a backwards yawl with a lot of rake, or a Mulleta with spritsails...

[hexnut]

Nothing too exciting, just making frames...

 

 

[Dee_Dee]

Nothing too exciting, just making frames...

 

Well, THAT'S an understatement.   How many frames in total will there be?  

 

I was looking at the drawing and saw that the samson post is installed in a similar way to the mast.  It goes thru the deck and is anchored in the keelson, about two frames in front of the mast.  I thought about drilling a hole in the deck and down into the keelson, but after 10 seconds, I decided against it.  

 

You are taking this little boat to a whole new level!  

[hexnut]

Thanks, Dee_Dee.   --41, but who's counting?   

I'm still mulling over if I want to do a single or double-post design.  The prow is the only area of the boat where I have a solid bulkhead, so I'm definitely not going to bother making a "real" mounting. (maybe on the next one--these little things are sort of addictive, aren't they?)

[Senior ole salt]

 

 

That's a rough sketch? It looks like a work of art to me.  You're doing fine in my opinion. Keep up the good work.

 

I'd like to try that kids someday.

 

S.os

[hexnut]

Thank you, Senior Salt, I look forward to seeing some of your great work in New London next month!

 

re-posted some missing images.

[timo4352]

Bob, I think you have got the centerboard hook the way it should be in your terrific drawing. I messed around with mine and changed it, but I wish I would have put it in the position that your drawing shows. It makes more sense from a 'leverage to lift the board viewpoint'.

Just make sure if the board is down - that the hook is down too! 

[hexnut]

I've actually played around a bunch with the centerboard structure and one of the tentative conclusions that I've reached is that the Midwest  hook may be too long.  One of the issues is with the center plotted from the Chappelle plans, there is a significant horizontal component to the lift. I have modeled both the fore and aft positions for the handle, showing an intermediate link (or chain) connecting to the centerboard.  Dimensions are in 1/24 scale.

 

 

Edit:  I've shown the centerboard at the lowermost point as shown on the Midwest plans, but it occurred to me that I don't really know if it goes deeper than that.  If it does, then the length of the board hook may make a lot more sense.

Edited March 19, 2014 by hexnut

[captainbob]

The centerboard suould go down until the upper back corner is almost to the keel.

 

Bob

[hexnut]

Thank you, Cap'n!  So, more like this?

 

That would certainly make more sense for the handle length. If you would indulge me in more stupid questions:

Does the angled cut in the keel bear the weight of the centerboard in the down position, or is the handle/haul/up assembly actually under tension?  Thanks!

 

 

[hexnut]

A bit more glue:  false keel/deadwood clamped up:

And slowly growing...

 

 

 

[Dee_Dee]

Hex Bob, 

 

Wow!  This is exciting to see!  

 

On our Lightning, a permanent 'pin' in the centerboard rested top of the trunk and that carried the weight.  

The length of my handle / chain assembly was determined by how far I wanted the centerboard to drop.  The handle will act as the stop and carry the weight.  That is why I lined the deck opening with a piece of brass, that will be blackened.  Theoretically, this centerboard could drop all the way out out of the trunk and just dangle by the pin.

 

Sitting in the front row with eyes as big as saucers!

 

Dee Dee