MEDDO

Wish I had found this topic sooner. New aspiring modeler here. Im going to step out on a limb and say that the Mantua Sergal Soleil Royale that just showed up on my doorstep may not have been the bestchoice as a 1st model? For some reason I waited until after the purchase to start researching advice. I have now come to the realization that this model will go straight to my shelf and most likely stay there for a few years while I work up to it. This topic was made for people such as myself.....the problem is...people such as myself leap then look so not sure how many will read this in time. Thanks for the advise.

Thanks everyone.
 
This is actually a fun build and wish I didn't have to work.
 
Anyway here is a free tip for painting small parts. 
Use the top of a pill bottle and the squash some tinfoil into it to make a small reservoir for mixing the paint and thinner.
When you are done just remove and discard the tinfoil and you are ready to go and cleaned up. 
 
 

HMS Sphinx 1775 Sixth Rate 20 guns ship - 1:64 Scale model from Vanguard.
 
This will be my latest project, a project the size and type of which, only a short while ago, I thought I would not be doing again.
I hadn’t counted on Chris Watton’s ability to beguile me in this late stage of my model building career to return to another 18th century square rigged naval ship.
 
However, as Jim’s prototype build developed, I thought what a fine Navy board style model this would make given the detail included in the kit, and importantly proper deck beams, and full run decks unimpeded by hull carcase bulkhead structures.
The inclusion of an engraved proper lower deck with hatches and ladderways down to an orlop deck, is a nice touch and opens further opportunities.
 
I will be building this kit as a Navy board style model without masts or rigging, and that way space considerations will not be a big issue.

 

Joseph Marshall paintings of Sphynx / Sphinx held by the Science Museum. (They are available for purchase as prints.)
 
These two perspective paintings by Joseph Marshall commissioned by George 111 will be my inspiration, as was his painting of the cutter Alert for that build.
 
Altho’ delivery is still a week or so away, I am gathering information, and I have some jottings about possible additions/modifications, but I won’t pre-empt the arrival of the kit.

I have also ordered the Lines and Profile plan from the N.M.M. (Ref j4272)
 
Apart from providing additional information, these make very attractive art works to my eye at least, and the framed print will join those of Pegasus and Cheerful on my walls.
 
I have also realised that my copy of The 24-Gun Frigate Pandora (AotS series – by John McKay and Ron Coleman) has much useful information relevant to Sphinx.
 
So, as I continue finger tapping on my desk, in eager anticipation of that large box arriving, I will entertain myself poring over the pdf of the voluminous build manual.
 
B.E.
11/08/2021
 

Fantastic marking out there Ben.  Does that tape stick enough to move it around a few times for adjustments?
 

Funny how so many of our wives seem to know each other…..

Funny how so many of our wives seem to know each other…..

A few more
 

 

 

 

 

 
 

I just thought I would put up a few pictures.  Just a bit of paint touch up and dusting left
 

 

 

 

 

 
 

Was able to get the carvings mounted up on some scrap.  Remembering to flip one side so they are symmetrical
 

 
I think they fit very nicely.  
 


 
Initially I thought the color was too light in relation to the cast pieces but in natural light they do match pretty well.
 
Need to clean up some paint spots and then just have to mount it on its base add the rudder/tiller and will be done.  I think I am going with a plain case from Casesforcollectables.  Not sure they are the same but they look like the ones @Trussben used for his barge and longboat.  
 
Will take some nice final pictures when I get a chance.

First thing I would do is to practice a few times with some tissue and some scrap poles.  You don't even have to print the pattern for the practice runs.  A few attempts and they really started to look better.
 
I used regular tissue paper that the wife had for wrapping presents.  I cut a piece out and then just used scotch tape to tape all the edges to a piece of regular printer paper.  
 
I then printed the design with a normal ink jet printer.  
 
After cutting it out (11 blade scalpel) I used some thread to attach it to a pole.  
 
I used Krylon matte fixative in the big spray can.  My first few attempts ended up using too much and apparently was doing it in too high humidity.  Too much spray resulted in a whitish frosting on the tissue when it dried.  It also wetted it so much that it became very fragile and tore.  I did do it in my office/workshop (very smelly not recommended) as it was in the 90's today with really high humidity.
 
After spraying both sides lightly I gently shaped it with my fingers as well as the roundish tips of a pair of hemostats and the end of a round paint brush.  The spray has about 10-15 minute wet time so there was plenty of time to shape it.  I was able to spray again if it did not dry in a nice enough shape.  
 
After a few tries I then proceeded to make the final ones which I think came out pretty well.
 
Here is a picture of the white frosting on the practice runs
 

 
 

Getting there.  Need to decide on final mounting.  Still leaving the rudder off until finished with the carvings.  Carvings are still being practiced.  I do want to try one with a rotary tool as so far have only been using the 11 blade scalpel and carving knife.
 

 
These are the first flags I attached to the poles. I had an epic fail when trying to shape them.  Turns out you can use too much of a good thing (krylon fixative).  So after printing out a few more on some tissue paper I was able to practice enough and get 2 to come out looking fairly decent.
 

 
Now just on to the carvings...
Deo Volente
 

Still plodding along.  the rudder is finished although not added yet as I don't want to take the chance of having it get knocked off.  The tiller is just press fit and is removable.
 

 
I spent the day making the flag poles and just have the flags to attach and shape for that to be done and the rest of the day was spent prepping the sweeps.  The painting should begin tomorrow.
 

Thanks JD.  
 
I think I keep getting ahead of myself worrying about the next next step etc.  Just need to concentrate on doing the thing in front of me right now
 
which is...
 

 
many many pieces were harmed to bring this to an somewhat acceptable piece
 

Yup exactly 😁 me being the ham fisted clod with minimal skills and minimal experience milling my own wood thought it might be a touch easier for first scratch. Well unless you count this....

which is technically my first scratch build 😳  circa 1975ish
 
My son just finished his eagle project and we have a bunch of scrap cut offs of some western red cedar.  I know it not that great for small scales but I thought I would at least practice dimensioning some of it as it was destined for the fire pit.  
 
Still eyeing the Cheerful as the frames and keel are already cut. 
 
Yup I love the cross sections and have been going through the excellent logs here especially the one by @davec

In getting prepared for assembling the frames to the keel, I realized I had some cleanup of the keel to do. Very slight imperfections in the thickness of the various keel parts meant that squeeze-out of glue from certain joints was apparent. And sanding wasn’t addressing these issues. So I used a razor blade to scrape the surface of each side of the keel, which appeared to bring things more into a flat surface and eliminated much of the squeeze-out you can see here.
 

 
That’s better.
 

 
So, once again, here is how things look, with most of the bulkheads on the building board. I have seven forward frames pulled out from the bow area to show that four of them have their bulwark stanchions carved into them, while the other 3 don’t have them yet.
 

 
The point of building the model with all of these bulkheads (rather than just 11 bulkheads, one at each station) is so that I can leave part of the hull unplanked and show the internal structure of the boat. But I figured out very quickly that to make each frame to its proper, scaled molded dimension would result in a bunch of frames that are extremely fragile, even when glued to the keel and supported by the baseboard.
 

 
So my plan is to make approximately every fifth frame according to its proper scaled dimensions while leaving the remaining 80% of frames essentially as bulkheads. I will plank up the boat like that, omitting certain planks on one side of the hull during the process. Then, once it is planked, I will invert the boat and remove a lot of bulkhead wood from at least the side that is unplanked, and bring those bulkheads down to the same dimensions as the ones shown in the picture above.
 
Each of the frames shown above is flanked by filler blocks that are just large enough to keep these very thin frames in their proper positions, while not interfering with the process of fairing the overall hull shape.
 

 
The arrows indicate the location of the frames with properly molded dimensions.
 

 
In addition, since the frames are so small and pliable, I have added extra wood shims to make sure that the tops of these frames are properly positioned and cannot move, either fore and aft or athwartships.
 
It’s a risky process, the idea of building up this hull with the plan of carving out a lot of its internal support structure. But I figure that the hull planking will be a very solid structure since the planks are not only glued to the frames, but they are also edge glued to one another. Much like how plywood lapstrake construction of real, full-sized boats makes for a very stable structure that requires much less internal framing.
 

 
I also worked on smoothing out the deadwood to accept the planking in a properly fair manner.
 

 
Now I have to work on creating bulwark stanchions for each and every bulkhead, as these will show on the final model.
 

 
The stanchions have a consistent width of 3/32” on each face. A compass was used to mark out the width on both faces of each bulkhead.
 

 
My wife’s lovely hands modeling the technique for me while I take the pictures!
 

 
The height of each stanchion should be a consistent 7/16”, representing the distance between the bottom surface of the covering board to the undersurface of the caprail, as represented on the builder’s plans.
 

 
This is how things should end up looking.
 

 
So here is a frame in the vise, with the pencil marks evident. This frame is laminated castello, while some of the frames are 3/32” thickness fir plywood. I am impressed by how strong the laminated frames are. Even so, both the plywood and the laminated bulkheads experienced failures that would require re-gluing of the stanchion to the bulkhead.
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 
I cut as close as possible to the pencil line with a fresh X-acto blade.
 

 
And I used a triangular file to get into the corner.
 
Next I am going to actually start gluing bulkheads to the keel, and working out the garboard and sheer strakes! Gonna finally start getting the hull in shape.

Glenn,
I agree on not tree nailing for scales of 1:64 and smaller.  For 1:48 and larger, it is not difficult to make trennals to scale for the hull planking using bamboo and a drawplate.  (I have never been able to make them consistently to scale with any other wood species with the plate or  drilling cores or  other methods.)    For the hull,  at 1:48, a 1" to 1.25"  trennal is 0.02 to  0.026" diameter which can be easily done with bamboo on a good quality draw plate.  Even so, making the required 10,000 tree nails is no small task.   For deck planks,   a good motto might be that  when in doubt leave it out.   The treenails were covered and not visible, but if the model builder wants them to be seen, the scale needed even for 1:48 would be very difficult to achieve.   The  majority of models we see with tree nailed decks look like they have a case of the measles or chickenpox because of the scale issue.  
Allan

Funny how so many of our wives seem to know each other…..

Wow thanks Allan. 
 
Comments and like keep me motivated.
 
I looked it up and also took a look at a lot of photos so redid the shape so it looks more realistic.
 
I have 22 made and not sure if I need more but wanted to make sure I hade the hole size correct for the pin rails before I made them.
 

They all go to classes together.  They do it under the cover of going to the washroom together when out with the husbands.  Always go in pairs - rule of the classroom.  All public restrooms have a white board with the sayings to memorize written out.  How else can you explain how they all say the exact same thing to us?

Using a 5/32” dia. brass tube (chosen by trial and error), short pieces are cut off and squeezed just enough to create an 0.0960” oblong cross section tube. A piece 0.010” sheet brass, was cut into a rectangle with one end rounded to represent the scuttle door. Filing the edge of the formed tube leaving the corner edge proud creates the lip flange. In order to drill a couple of holes to create the oblong shape, requires a 7/64” ( 0.1094”) bit. Another drill bit I needed (I actual purchased a set of 16 bits) The door was attached with CA glue. These will be inserted into the wide hole in the hull almost flush leaving the door and flange lip protruding from the hull. This will provide some detail even when painted black.

NRG MODELERS WORKSHOP



SATURDAY, AUGUST 21


The Ship Modeler's Ten Step Program or How to Transform Your Kit Model from Out of the Box to Out of this World
 


You have built a few ship models “out of the box” but you are considering taking the next step towards kit-bashing.  The idea is exciting, but you have no idea where to start.  This presentation takes you through the process of transforming your kit build into a one-of-a-kind, historically correct ship model.  From research to technique to bringing your model to life, NRG Chairman Toni Levine will show you how to make your model stand out from the crowd. 

To illustrate the Ten Steps, the presentation concludes with do’s and don’ts using her first kit model, Mantua’s Peregrine Galley, as a teaching aid.
Details

    Date: Saturday, August 21, 2021, at 10:00am Central

    Location: Online, attend using your computer or tablet.

    Registration: Advance registration required.

    Cost: Free for current fully paid-up NRG members, $10 for non-members


About NRG Online Workshops

These workshops are presented online.  You can attend from anywhere in the world, all you need is a computer, tablet, or mobile device.  You'll be able to watch the presentation and ask questions during the Q&A period.  NRG members can typically view a recording of the workshop later.

Space is limited, and advance registration is required.  NRG workshops are FREE to current fully paid-up NRG members.  The cost for non-members to attend this Workshop is $10 US.

NRG members will be able to select the FREE registration option after starting the registration process and entering the email address on file with the NRG.  You may need to log into your NRG account to register for free.  If you're not sure how to log into your account, click here for more information.

Not an NRG member?  Click here for information on joining!

REGISTER
CLICK ABOVE TO REGISTER


After you complete registration, you'll receive an email with a link to attend the workshop.  Just click that link at 10am Central on August 21, 2021, to attend.  SAVE THE LINK.


About the Presenter


Toni Levine has been a Director of the Nautical Research Guild since 2013 and was elected Chairman this year.  She has been a moderator on Model Ship World since 2017.  She is a retired physician. 

Toni has been building models since she was a child, starting with a Monogram Hellcat that had been intended for her brother.  Her first ship model was a Scientific Cutty Sark, built in high school; a model she still has.  After her education was completed, Toni resumed model building, starting with plank on bulkhead kits and progressing to plank on frame scratch builds.

Her most recent completed model is Atalanta, a British sloop of 1775 which was constructed following David Antscherl’s The Fully Framed Model.  This model won several prizes at the 2019 Midwestern Model Ships and Boats Contest, including Gold Award, Modeler’s Choice and People’s Choice.

Most recently, she developed a half hull kit to instruct novice and intermediate modelers how to correctly plank a hull and a monograph detailing how to build a capstan for intermediate and advanced modelers. Both projects are available through the Guild store.



 
 

Using the mini kit I mounted the rudder as it seemed like as good a time as any to do it.
 
 

Here is the completed windless. Easy to build from the mini kit. 
Just take your time and follow the instructions.
 

Took the opportunity to attach all the deck furniture. Seems funny to call it furniture.
 
Next I have to make the hole for the rudder and hope I don't slip with the dremel when doing so.
 

I have the deck finished up with the treenailing and one coat of poly at the moment.
 
Now to start on some of the smaller details and am glad to be done with planking.