Louie da fly

First, thanks everybody for the likes. JacquesCousteau I'll have a look at that idea. So far my colour-mixing hasn't come up with the colour I need. I still need to do some more experimenting. Thukidides, I agree totally. I find half the fun is in the research. Steven

Well, you learn something new every day (if you're not careful!). Today, whilst working on the blocks to control the side rudders I discovered something I'd missed. The best depictions of mediaeval Mediterranean blocks I know of are in the carvings from from the church of San Pietro in Ciel d'Oro, Pavia of 1362 and the Arch of St Peter the Martyr, Church of Sant'Eustorgio, Milan of 1336-38 as shown in post #463 above. Only 200 years or so wrong for my model, but in this business you take what you can get. But look at the way the blocks are connected to the tackles they relate to. No strops! Instead, the ropes go through holes in the blocks themselves. Just like the blocks on my earlier dromon build, which I based upon actual archaeological finds from even earlier (5th and 11th century AD) Byzantine ships, except that the earlier ones were simple rectangular prisms ("blocks" if you will - so that's where the name came from!) From a 5th century AD wreck found in the silted-up Harbour of Theodosius of Constantinople (modern Istanbul) during the Yenikapi archaeological dig. The Spanish Cantigas de Santa Maria of 1252-80 appears to show blocks of the same type: Unfortunately the level of detail shown in the above two carvings is extremely rare in contemporary representations. I can see the reason this kind of block went out of use - that hole could just 'pull out' under the forces the block was subjected to. Better to use a strop. But when did the changeover occur? Fascinating. Looks like I'm going to have to scroll through my picture collection and see if I can gather more evidence on all this. In any event, I've realised all the blocks I've so far put on this model are probably incorrect. Not that I'm prepared to change them now - it'll just have to be another learning experience. But I've made a start on new ones for the rudders, in line with what I've discovered. Before I did all this I was all set to add the blocks to the rudders. I'd looked at the fixings for them shown on the Arch of St Peter the Martyr (above) and they made sense. I was going to make metal straps around the rudders - one for the forward-pulling tackle (which lowers the rudder) and one below it for the aft-pulling tackle which raises it. Then I had another look at the mosaics I've been working from, and which I think should be my first port of call for such things. In the rare depictions of the tackles in the mosaics they seem to be tied to the rudders. You can see one just below the aftercastle (the rudder is raised and is horizontal). The other one I'm ignoring, as it seems to be connected to the bow of a small boat, not to the rudder, in what I hope is simply an artist error. This is backed up by another near-contemporary illustration, of St Ursula by Paolo Veneziano (active by 1333, died after 1358) showing the tackle fixed to the rudder with rope lashings. I began by temporarily gluing one of the rudders resting on its supporting through-beam so that the tiller was in the helmsman's hands (well, as well as I could manage it). I drilled a small hole through both through-beam and rudder shaft and put a brass pin through the two of them so they'd stay aligned together. Once I had the alignment worked out I took the rudder off again and put the two lashings on it, with a little loop at the business end of each one for the rope connecting it to the block. Note the first photo below shows it at that stage - I'm not very chronologically consistent with my photo-taking. The pin would be replaced in due course with a wooden peg that would be trimmed off and painted to be invisible when it was all finished. Then I bethought myself and came to the conclusion that a single rope should be lashed around the rudder and connect the block to it. So I removed it, preparatory to doing it that way instead (no photo I'm afraid). And I've fully attached the starboard anchor and added weathering - rust where the flukes of the anchor rest against the ship and some salt residue and green marine growth where the cable is held. The rust didn't show up enough on the first try, so since I took these photos I've added to it. And some more marine growth along with the salt residue where the water is pumped out amidships. I think I need to revisit the green - it's not very convincing yet. Steven

Thanks everybody for the likes. Thanks particularly to Thukydides (and yes,I know who the original Thukydides was -a very appropriate name!) and to Glen. By the way, once I have those anchors properly located and catted, I intend to put rust streaks down the hull as well. Banyan, I must have been in the middle of my post when you sent yours, so I didn't see it. I'd agree abut 'common' belaying points, and in fact I've been forced to do this on the model whether I wanted to or not. But I wasn't thinking about the idea of having more than one rope that work together to be grabbed at the same time. Maybe for next time. Steven

I've been working on rope coils. Until a moment ago I thought I'd made and put in place all I needed, but I've just become aware there are still a few more to do. So many coils, and I realise (again) that I didn't provide enough belaying points. But I've got so far now that I can't go back and fix that. It just has to be a learning experience for next time. By the way, note the nice catenary curves on the tackle for the slackened-off leeward shrouds. My coil-making has improved as I've gone along. The first ones were okay, but not brilliant. The latest ones are pretty good, if I do say so myself. Problem is, unless you're looking for them, they're not terribly obvious. I could have saved myself all that hassle and the model would have hardly looked different. But I would have known . . . And I solved (sort of) the issue of the sheet blocks on the weather side. I've tied one end of each sheet to a belaying point (I said there weren't enough!) with a coil on the free end, and the block (with a loop at the top to take a toggle) between the two. (You can see one of these blocks just below the gold clothespeg.) And I've completed and weathered the anchors: neglected and rusty, as befits a not terribly-well maintained merchant vessel. I had a bit of a research problem with these anchors - the only contemporary picture showing anchors at all is also from Saint Mark's, and shows three anchors at the bow - which could be quite believable - the technology for big heavy anchors hadn't yet been developed, so I can believe they made do with several smaller ones. BUT they're shown hanging off the gunwales by the cables, not catted. I find this difficult to accept. Interestingly, the cables appear to be looped around something at the gunwale and hanging outside the hull. Hmmm . . . The nearest other representations of anchors in time are about 200 years later, and who knows what developments in maritime technology took place in the interim. However, I find the suspension method much more believable, and that's the configuration I'll be following (though I have based the anchors on the ones in the mosaic). 1362 from the church of San Pietro in Ciel d'Oro, Pavia, Italy. 1336-38 Arch of St Peter the Martyr, Church of Sant'Eustorgio, Milan, Italy. And here is one of the anchors temporarily in place. Steven

Hi and welcome to MSW. First, don't worry about mistakes. We all make them - the experienced builders just make more interesting ones! And wood is a very forgiving medium. Second, if you haven't already started one, begin a build log. First we get to see your model under way, second you can get help and advice and ask questions about any problems you might encounter. Best wishes, Steven [Edit] I just noticed your original post was almost a year ago - I must have missed it. But on searching MSW I don't see a build log, so I think my advice above still applies. Start one - it's a good group we have here, and very helpful. Steven

Perhaps you need one of those 'funny' tanks they used on the Normandy beaches. Only 3778 miles across the Atlantic - a doddle! Steven

Those are beautiful locomotives. Steven

Horses for courses, mate. Do what works for you. I've been woodcarving since I was a kid, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of it. Doesn't mean everyone else has to be the same or do what I do. Those figures of yours look really good. Australia got rid of its one and two-cent coins in 1992. We don't miss them. Those are brilliant, mate! Looking forward to seeing how they turn out in the real world! Steven

I find that leaving the thread to hang with weights on the end (as you do) but without glue eventually takes the kinks/curl out, but it does take awhile. Once that's done, impregnating the thread with a solution of PVA glue and water allows it to hang in a catenary curve if you support both ends, and it dries with the curve intact. Coming along nicely. Steven

In retrospect, I'd agree. But I was young and no challenge seemed to be too much. I may have learned a bit of wisdom since, but I try to keep the attitude I had back then. What nationality is the locomotive in the picture? Steven

Thanks, Mark. I'll need to look at this a few times to get my head around it (that's the way my mind works, I'm afraid.) Yes, it might not be appropriate to this build, but ten again it might. Steven

Yep. I really wasn't sure it would turn out that way. I used river redgum (I think! I bought it from the guy across the road who used to own a farm and got the timber off trees growing there - some Aussie eucalypt,anyway) and the combination of that and Danish oil turned out exactly right, fortunately. Steven

Yes, I thought I'd completely ruined the whole build over a moment's inattention. I'd taken so much care to make sure the two pieces were rigidly glued together, and then to find that I'd got the alignment wrong (checking it would have taken all of a minute!) and I couldn't get them apart again was heartbreaking. I had all kinds of ideas about making a complete new upper section, and ways to duplicate the look of the planking without having to do it plank by plank all over again. Took me some weeks to realise that with a bit of ingenuity and the fortunate quality of wood that it can be almost infinitely repaired that I could re-use both pieces after all. And here she is after staining the deck. And a colour comparison with the real thing. Steven

Yes, that's what I thought. But a rope loop and a toggle do the same job and are a very Mediterranean solution. No idea about turning off auto-correct. Go to the How to use the MSW forum - **NO MODELING CONTENT** section on the home page and ask. A moderator will almost certainly be able to help. That's what that section's for. Steven

In fact I'll be having a block and tackle on each side, but using toggles to join them to the sail, not hooks. Nope. I've already made my decision on that. It's not worth the extra work for something I don't find particularly bothersome. BTW, regarding the vangs, though there are certainly a good number that are part-way down the yard, there are also quite a few well-observed contemporary representations showing them right on the extreme end. So I'm happy to leave them where they are for this model, and will simply do it differently next time. Steven

Immediately reminded me of the Monty Python sketch . . . Steven

Thanks for that, Ferrus. This ties in with what I was thinking. I'd already all but decided to reduce the blocks at the clew to a single one per sail. What's the thought with the hook on the block? Is the idea to hook it into one of those rope coils on each side of your caravel's deck, depending on what tack you're on? I'll have to give that one some thought. Good point about the vangs - I'd thought "vangs at the extreme ends of the yards = greater turning force." But (and I have noticed these things further down the yard in both contemporary pictures and in photos) that presupposes unlimited sideways space at deck level to pull the yard to the side. Which of course there isn't. So further down is better after all. And the pendant (the standing line) between the yard and the block is borne out by both photos and near-contemporary (only 140 years later) images. Thanks for the comment regarding the loosened shrouds on the lee side. I got that (of course!) from Björn Landström's superb explanation in his book The Ship. Steven PS: By the way, one thing this build has taught me is that I need to put more forethought into belaying points before I start building, not just say "ah, that should be enough"and hope it turns out ok. So many belaying points, even on a (fairly) simple lateener.

OK - another question. I've just been looking at video of the caravel reconstruction Notorious and she only has a single block at the clew of each sail. Check out the footage. There's another video up of a caravel reconstruction under sail, but it doesn't show very much. So am I doing too much by having a pair of blocks at each clew? Should I remove one of them and simplify the rig? Particularly as my model is an early vessel with what we should probably assume was an unsophisticated rig? Unfortunately, contemporary representations without exception don't show what's happening at the clew, so are no help at all. And single-masted lateeners aren't much help either, as it's what happens with the fore and middle masts I'm particularly uncertain about. Except perhaps to make me think I've made the blocks for the sheets too big anyway. Steven

No I haven't. Sounds worth trying -if I can get a gentle current. Steven

I've been fiddling with the sail of the 'mast of the middle' to get it to 'belly' correctly. The silkspan is impregnated with acrylic paint, so by laying the ship over, wetting the sail, judiciously adding weights, and letting it dry it should retain the shape I've given it. I've only done it to the middle sail so far, and you can see the result here. Not perfect, but not too shabby, either. and then I've been working to get the right configuration of the sheet, which should be a straight line because of the pressure of the wind, but is difficult to do because there isn't any wind. I finally worked out that if I belayed the sheet at one end and then pulled it tight at the block, I could fake the wind pressure by impregnating the sheet with CA and letting it dry. Seems to have worked so far. Steven

Johnny, It's generally thought the original 15th century model this model is based upon was made far too short and tubby compared with the real thing. It's a votive model - given to a church, usually by a seaman grateful for being saved at sea. Steven

Nice. I used to do model railways in a small way when I was a teenager - got partway through building a local West Australian tank locomotive out of tinplate (it would have been OO scale but HO gauge, corresponding approximately to the 3 foot 6 inch gauge that West Australia had at the time. But my skills weren't up to the job, unfortunately. And I had no idea how to make the chassis, add the wheels, motor etc. A pity. I enjoyed the process, though. Yes, I think it would be good for you to put those things up in "Non-Ship categorised builds" - I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one interested. Best wishes, Steven

And I changed my mind about the sheets. Originally I'd had them just tied directly to the clew of each sail,with a sheet going off to each side. I decided that threw away mechanical advantage and that there should be a couple of blocks at each clew. But how to attach them? After a lot of thought I went back to the traditional Mediterranean method - a toggle through a loop. So I made two blocks for each sail, each with a loop at the end, and passed the two loops through the cringle at the clew with a toggle to hold them in place. The pictures show all - in the last one (for the mizzen) the toggle hasn't yet been cut to length And I've been adjusting the balance of forces acting on the yards, to get the sails in the configuration I want (for example, the fore end of the central yard was too low, so I had to cut off one of the tacks which I'd already cut to length, and replace it with another longer one so there was enough rope free so the fore end could be pulled up higher by pulling down on the brace/vang at the upper end of the yard (not sure that this explains it very well, but I know what I mean). So here she is in her current manifestation. A bit more fiddle needed - tying off ropes and adding the truss for the fore-yard, things like that. And I'd like maybe to have another go at smoothing out the sails - they're a bit too wrinkled for my liking. Then to finish off the anchors, add the steering oars, re-position one of the crew - and I do believe that will mean I've finished! (unless I've forgotten something!) Steven

It's been a while since I've posted in this build. I've been recovering from shock. Everything was going swimmingly until I glued the "verandah" to the lower hull, then - DISASTER! I hadn't lined the two pieces up properly and they were out of alignment - not just a little, but enough to stuff everything upcompletely. And as I'd done such a good workmanlike job with the gluing and clamping, I couldn't get them apart without brutalising them. Which I then proceeded to do. As those who've been following this build are aware, it had taken months to plank the verandah, and all that had apparently gone completely to waste. I prised the two pieces apart with an old chisel, breaking off bits from both pieces and ripping up the lower layer of the plywood deck. I thought I'd ruined both pieces, and it took me awhile to recover and regroup. First I cleaned up the lower hull, removing fragments of the upper part that had stuck to it, and bogging up the breaks where I'd wrenched it with the chisel. I still thought I'd have toi make a new upper deck, with all the extra work entailed in re-planking. But after awhile I realised that if I removed the worst bits and made sure it was smooth all around the outside of the area it joined the lower hull, the central section didn't matter, so long as it was clear of the join. I did that last week, and VERY carefully lined it all up and (heart in mouth) glued it up again. And it worked! (sigh) So with a restored hull and deck, I was able to move ahead and start adding the deck equipment and the seats. I added the wheel (see an earlier post) to its housing and stuck down the paddlewheel covers and other deck equipment, as well as quite a few of the seats. So here it is in its current manifestation. The forrard seats aren't yet glued in place, just put there. I have to work out their exact placement before I can stick them down. You can see the holes for the posts that support the awning roof around the outer edge of the deck. She's looking pretty good, I think. I've now cut the posts for the awning. And I've also come up with a solution to a problem I had with the smaller version - location of the posts so they'd line up top and bottom and the awning would stay at the same height throughout. I realised there are three places where there are three posts going across the breadth of the vessel, and if I make three strips of wood to go across the tops of these with holes to locate the tops of the posts, I can get them all the same height and just place the awning on top and glue it down. I haven't done it yet - watch this space! Steven

Thanks for the information, Rodolfo. Valuable for us who are interested in carracks, and making models of them. What scale is your railway? You might like to post photos of it in the "Non-Ship categorised builds" section of MSW> I'm sure there would be quite a few people interested in seeing them! Steven