CharlieZardoz

There is a (Swedish?) website with extensive info on Chapman, including high res of his drawings (I think it is Chapman.net). Official site, I think part of a museum.
 
Chapman was quite a character and worth reading up on.

Mike: Just bought the book off amazon for a whopping $9
 
Daves: I do agree that most of the kits sold by the model companies are hardly well detailed and quite a few are fictitious, however I do believe that many are based on some sort of plan or draught that the original model builder used as a basis.  It's my strong suspicion that model kit companies function in the past kinda like they do now where a company would contract a model builder to build a ship or chose from a bunch of ships already built they would ask for something like "a British schooner from the 18th century" or "French cutter from the 17th century" or something like that.  Once they got the model they would likely want to give it a name (regardless of whether it's historical or not) and some sort of back story. Add to the 50 years and a few change of hands and the intent of the original model maker is all but forgotten but a little research and a keen eye and I think one can track down what resources were used.
 
My want in this forum post is partly for my own research since many of these kits are small ships which I've considered building somewhere down the line and for me at least I'd like to invest the time in models which have a historical counterpart. As with Sultana I plan on doing thorough research on each model ship I build so as to know as much as I can about the ship's history and detailing, etc.  Doing research I was able to track down (impostors) like AL's Independence which is really just the Halifax slightly redressed, or Constructo's Enterprise which appears to be off the draught of the Vixen with a few details added.  But research can also help determine ships that were based on actual draughts, the Revenue cutters Alert and Ranger which are unnamed in Chapelle's books, or Caldercraft's Bader ex Pitt the admiralty draught is available online, or The Albatros or Harvey which are based off of the same plans found in Chapelle's book on Baltimore Clippers.  Same as what Mike said above about the Unicorn a little research led me to the Chapman book I just ordered so in the end whether or not I build any of them I'm learning more about period ships so that now I can just look at a model like Mamoli's Blue Shadow and know it to be fantasy.

Thank you my friend.

That sounds like a good plan, Charlie. 

Ultimately thats what ill likely do however since im still a novice-ish I plan to get a few kits under my belt before I get to full scratchwork. Even with Sultana though other than the hull everything else will be scratchwork

If it's the Hahn plans size holding you back.. you can rescale them down.     Works for me.. I've scaled some of his plans up and one of them down.

I also think it's a good idea to pick kits (at least at the start) which help build certain skill sets.  For example, a copper plated ship model like Pickle or Phantom will teach you copper plating, a plank on frame kit like Duke William will teach plank on frame technique, a ship like Sultana or Bounty will teach carving figureheads or other decorations.  If your ultimate goal is to one day build something like Victory or Agamemnon better to line up your kits in order of various techniques you want to master along the way.  It's all relative though building a tug may not help with Victory but it may be fun regardless

Greetings Chris!  It's mainly a matter of scale I have been wanting to have a 1:64 scale Halifax to sail along with my 1:64 Sultana.  I had planned to scratch build Halifax down the line using a mix of the Lumbreyard/Hahn detailing's and a copy of the Mamoli plans, however thought this kit might save me a few steps.  Mamoli's Halifax at 1:54 scale is about 590mm or 23.25" +/- and the Aeropiccola kit is 530mm or 20.75" +/- so that should be close enough to 1:64.  That said I'd likely only use the hull frames and a few fittings and scratch the rest so while I was curious about the kit, it may very well be more trouble than it's worth

Thanks ill look into it (wonder where I got Chatham from lol). With any luck some of those kits above will be represented. More books to buy then yay!

I find that I need a personal connection to the prototype to really be motivated. For example, even though I'm fascinated by sailing ships, a number of my early models have been based on Missouri River craft because that's where I live and it's a favorite historic/geographic area for me.  While I don't like machinery overall and would place steamships in general pretty low in my list, these local craft have too much relevance for me to ignore. I built the Bounty Launch because I've been rereading those stories since high school; I also built a plastic Bounty for the same reason.
 
I find it too daunting to choose among all the possible ships out there, so finding that personal connection to something helps winnow the choices. I will never build all the ships I find attractive, and just have to come to terms with that.
 
I've also slowly looked for projects that will help improve my skills, without getting in over my head. While I'd love to build a large ship, my next two will likely be a longboat and a topsail schooner, to help develop skills in hulls and rigging, toward the someday goal of tackling a true ship. I will also likely squeeze in another steamboat.
 
Finally, I like being different, and finding my own path. Building riverboats certainly accomplishes that, and I hope to find a unique twist on any regular sailing craft I attempt, too.

For me, I love the historical, educational aspect of the ships as much as the building of them, so my current plan is to build ships that will show the evolution of ships of the line over the centuries.  Ships that fit the bill are: Victory (1760's), Soleil Royal (1660's), Sovereign of the Seas (1630's), Revenge (1570's), Mary Rose (1510's), Henri Grace a Dieu or Great Harry (1510's).  A side benefit is that if I go in that progression I will moving from plastic kits to wood kits to wood scratch built.
 
Of course there is also the Constitution because.....well...you know.
 
Regards,

My pleasure;  I can't contribute much in the way of advice yet so this is my way of contributing what I can for a great site!
Thanks for the looks and the likes
 
 
 
I have toyed with the idea of defunct kits and companies - that would be another effort I am afraid as it is a bit more open ended and harder to track down. Not out of  the question, but lower in the priorities at the moment.  Sorry
 
 
Thanks Fred, I appreciate that!  Very much so and you are very welcome
 
 
Yeah, probobly a good idea, I agree =)
 
 
Yep - my mistake and will fix it when I get back in there, thanks!

Hi,
 
finally the third HMS Pandora now. I started this project years ago and it was suspended quite a while. At the beginning of this year I did revisit it and finalized it. I am currently doing the first big render tests and put first results on YouTube:
 

 
Some photes of the same setting here:
 

 

 

I also think it's a good idea to pick kits (at least at the start) which help build certain skill sets.  For example, a copper plated ship model like Pickle or Phantom will teach you copper plating, a plank on frame kit like Duke William will teach plank on frame technique, a ship like Sultana or Bounty will teach carving figureheads or other decorations.  If your ultimate goal is to one day build something like Victory or Agamemnon better to line up your kits in order of various techniques you want to master along the way.  It's all relative though building a tug may not help with Victory but it may be fun regardless

Charlie, why are you tracking down this kit in particular?  Mamoli also produced one, and that kit is likely to be more common.  The Hahn-style scratch build is also popular, using the timbering kit from The Lumberyard.

Thanks ill look into it (wonder where I got Chatham from lol). With any luck some of those kits above will be represented. More books to buy then yay!

I also think it's a good idea to pick kits (at least at the start) which help build certain skill sets.  For example, a copper plated ship model like Pickle or Phantom will teach you copper plating, a plank on frame kit like Duke William will teach plank on frame technique, a ship like Sultana or Bounty will teach carving figureheads or other decorations.  If your ultimate goal is to one day build something like Victory or Agamemnon better to line up your kits in order of various techniques you want to master along the way.  It's all relative though building a tug may not help with Victory but it may be fun regardless

That's the one Charlie.
 
For what it's worth, the Unicorn and the Lyme were members of the Lyme class and the first "true frigates" as has been said earlier.  Ian, John and many other Unicorn kit builders and I have done quite a bit of research.  I purchased the Lyme plans, and the plans in the Chapman book above for the Unicorn match up quite well.  So, I think that the Chapman plans for the Unicorn are pretty accurate.
 
Where I think the Corel kit fails is in the various details - particularly with the deck plan and the very narrow waist.  Ian and others have suspected that Corel sorta merged the details of later period ships with the Lyme class, coming up with a model that is not particularly accurate.  That being said, with a little research, I think the Corel kit can be improved to come up with a historically accurate Lyme class vessel.

Is this the one you speak of?

Hi everyone! I wanted to start a new topic dealing with a few weird kits I've found in my research which sort of look like they've been based on actual plans from some sort of archive yet I can't seem to find any concise evidence that they existed or are just made up by the kit companies.   My thoughts are that a lot of these older kits were made by some ship builder decades ago and then sold to the kit companies who over time lost track of what plans they were based on.  But I am convinced that for most of these listed some real set of plans existed, possibly for a generic unidentified ship since I have to imagine it being a lot easier to make a model based on a historical plan than just made up in ones head. So this forum is an attempt to try and determine which plans (if any) were used for these models as a basis.
 
First up are two kits by Mantua HMS Sharke and HMS Shine. Sharke looks vaguely like the plan from the national maritime museum and Shine looks sort of like the armed Bermuda sloop yet has two masts.

Next up is HMS Lyde by Euromodel which is supposedly 1/70 scale at 34" yet looks very much like the Halifax which would only be like 19" at that scale.  Another one where I can't find any info on.

Then we have Mamoli's Hunter which could very well be a generic cutter similar to the Sherbourne however again curious what plan this one was based off of if any.

Last (for now) we have the Golden Star by Mantua. Again lets have fun with this, a bit of detective work could help determine the intent of these modeler's of yore.  Also feel free to contribute other kits that you may be curious about though a few have been discussed in prior postings

I prefer something different than the norm these days.  My Billing's Wasa got me started as one didn't see many of them being built when I was building her.  Then the Constellation as I had walked her decks in the mid-70's with a bit of reseach and it was "heavy bash" time.     Licorne.. is well... rare as a model but has a tale.   Up next?  Not sure but it won't be a Vic or Constitution.   Probably either Roebuck or Raleigh.  Nice looking ships, interesting histories and again, not often built.   Yes, I'm an oddball I think.

Dover Publications did a volume of Chapman's draughts.  The Plates are at a reduced scale, but the printing is quite clear.  The title is 'Architectura Navalis Mercatoria'.  His complete name is Fredrik Henrik Af Chapman.  The Volume was first printed in 1768.