Cathead

Looks nice Paul, good work!
 
As for your question, I installed the floor first, before adding the thwarts or squeezing the hull. It worked well and I had no trouble with the latter, as you're really only changing the shape of the upper-most portion of the hull. And installing the floor after the thwarts would be a real pain. I did, however, wait to install the quarterdeck until after I'd squeezed the hull, as it meets the hull much farther up the sides and I was concerned it would be affected by the reshaping.  So I didn't insert the second-to-last thwart (the one that covers part of the quarterdeck) until after I'd shaped the hull. It all worked out fine.

Looks nice Paul, good work!
 
As for your question, I installed the floor first, before adding the thwarts or squeezing the hull. It worked well and I had no trouble with the latter, as you're really only changing the shape of the upper-most portion of the hull. And installing the floor after the thwarts would be a real pain. I did, however, wait to install the quarterdeck until after I'd squeezed the hull, as it meets the hull much farther up the sides and I was concerned it would be affected by the reshaping.  So I didn't insert the second-to-last thwart (the one that covers part of the quarterdeck) until after I'd shaped the hull. It all worked out fine.

The value is partly intellectual property. What do you value a professional's time at? OK, consider all the hours you would put into figuring out how to scratchbuild a given model, add on more hours to figure out how to represent that process to customers, add on more hours to figure out how to design kit pieces to be easily/cost-effectively manufactured and useful to the customer, add on more hours for drafting accurate plans, and so on. That all has to be in the price of a kit. Most hobby builders (most hobbyists in general) ignore the intellectual cost of what they do, but any good businessperson can't afford to do that.
 
An example from my own experience. I'm a vegetable farmer, among other things. It drives me berserk when someone comes up to a farmers market stand and challenges me as to why X produce is so expensive at Y $/lb, when they easily grow it in their garden or neighbor Bob gives it to them from his garden. Well, those people are hobbyists. They aren't charging themselves a living wage for every hour they spend in the garden, they aren't counting the intellectual time it takes to plan out a full-scale farm, they aren't trying to support a family and health insurance and retirement savings from their fun little garden. It's not a fair comparison. 
 
As for contents, those dowels may well be standard hardware store dowels. But the point of a kit, at least most kits, is that it's self-contained. People who buy kits don't necessarily want to open it, and see the instructions start with "now go buy these other things or you can't build the kit". Would you buy a lawnmower that didn't come with sparkplugs, even though they're easy to get at a different store?
 
Of course there's a markup. There's a markup on everything you buy. Pretty much any retail product has a markup of 30-50% from wholesale, because the retailer is an independent business that has to pay for everything involved in modern life from the profits of the business. Then there's a markup over cost to reach the wholesale price, because the manufacturer has to pay for everything involved in modern life, plus the cost of developing the product in the first place. So, yeah, of course the "value" of the kit's contents don't add up to $350 in terms of what's physically there. But only someone who doesn't value others' professional time would think it would.
 
None of which is to say there aren't better and worse kits out there. I know nothing about the kit mentioned above. But, boy, a great way to get under a businessperson's skin is to complain that you could do it cheaper and better yourself. Fine, go do so, and be proud of yourself. I'm in awe of good scratchbuilders. But most of them realize they're paying themselves pennies per hour, whereas everyone involved in designing, producing, and selling a kit is trying to make a living doing it.

The value is partly intellectual property. What do you value a professional's time at? OK, consider all the hours you would put into figuring out how to scratchbuild a given model, add on more hours to figure out how to represent that process to customers, add on more hours to figure out how to design kit pieces to be easily/cost-effectively manufactured and useful to the customer, add on more hours for drafting accurate plans, and so on. That all has to be in the price of a kit. Most hobby builders (most hobbyists in general) ignore the intellectual cost of what they do, but any good businessperson can't afford to do that.
 
An example from my own experience. I'm a vegetable farmer, among other things. It drives me berserk when someone comes up to a farmers market stand and challenges me as to why X produce is so expensive at Y $/lb, when they easily grow it in their garden or neighbor Bob gives it to them from his garden. Well, those people are hobbyists. They aren't charging themselves a living wage for every hour they spend in the garden, they aren't counting the intellectual time it takes to plan out a full-scale farm, they aren't trying to support a family and health insurance and retirement savings from their fun little garden. It's not a fair comparison. 
 
As for contents, those dowels may well be standard hardware store dowels. But the point of a kit, at least most kits, is that it's self-contained. People who buy kits don't necessarily want to open it, and see the instructions start with "now go buy these other things or you can't build the kit". Would you buy a lawnmower that didn't come with sparkplugs, even though they're easy to get at a different store?
 
Of course there's a markup. There's a markup on everything you buy. Pretty much any retail product has a markup of 30-50% from wholesale, because the retailer is an independent business that has to pay for everything involved in modern life from the profits of the business. Then there's a markup over cost to reach the wholesale price, because the manufacturer has to pay for everything involved in modern life, plus the cost of developing the product in the first place. So, yeah, of course the "value" of the kit's contents don't add up to $350 in terms of what's physically there. But only someone who doesn't value others' professional time would think it would.
 
None of which is to say there aren't better and worse kits out there. I know nothing about the kit mentioned above. But, boy, a great way to get under a businessperson's skin is to complain that you could do it cheaper and better yourself. Fine, go do so, and be proud of yourself. I'm in awe of good scratchbuilders. But most of them realize they're paying themselves pennies per hour, whereas everyone involved in designing, producing, and selling a kit is trying to make a living doing it.

The value is partly intellectual property. What do you value a professional's time at? OK, consider all the hours you would put into figuring out how to scratchbuild a given model, add on more hours to figure out how to represent that process to customers, add on more hours to figure out how to design kit pieces to be easily/cost-effectively manufactured and useful to the customer, add on more hours for drafting accurate plans, and so on. That all has to be in the price of a kit. Most hobby builders (most hobbyists in general) ignore the intellectual cost of what they do, but any good businessperson can't afford to do that.
 
An example from my own experience. I'm a vegetable farmer, among other things. It drives me berserk when someone comes up to a farmers market stand and challenges me as to why X produce is so expensive at Y $/lb, when they easily grow it in their garden or neighbor Bob gives it to them from his garden. Well, those people are hobbyists. They aren't charging themselves a living wage for every hour they spend in the garden, they aren't counting the intellectual time it takes to plan out a full-scale farm, they aren't trying to support a family and health insurance and retirement savings from their fun little garden. It's not a fair comparison. 
 
As for contents, those dowels may well be standard hardware store dowels. But the point of a kit, at least most kits, is that it's self-contained. People who buy kits don't necessarily want to open it, and see the instructions start with "now go buy these other things or you can't build the kit". Would you buy a lawnmower that didn't come with sparkplugs, even though they're easy to get at a different store?
 
Of course there's a markup. There's a markup on everything you buy. Pretty much any retail product has a markup of 30-50% from wholesale, because the retailer is an independent business that has to pay for everything involved in modern life from the profits of the business. Then there's a markup over cost to reach the wholesale price, because the manufacturer has to pay for everything involved in modern life, plus the cost of developing the product in the first place. So, yeah, of course the "value" of the kit's contents don't add up to $350 in terms of what's physically there. But only someone who doesn't value others' professional time would think it would.
 
None of which is to say there aren't better and worse kits out there. I know nothing about the kit mentioned above. But, boy, a great way to get under a businessperson's skin is to complain that you could do it cheaper and better yourself. Fine, go do so, and be proud of yourself. I'm in awe of good scratchbuilders. But most of them realize they're paying themselves pennies per hour, whereas everyone involved in designing, producing, and selling a kit is trying to make a living doing it.

The value is partly intellectual property. What do you value a professional's time at? OK, consider all the hours you would put into figuring out how to scratchbuild a given model, add on more hours to figure out how to represent that process to customers, add on more hours to figure out how to design kit pieces to be easily/cost-effectively manufactured and useful to the customer, add on more hours for drafting accurate plans, and so on. That all has to be in the price of a kit. Most hobby builders (most hobbyists in general) ignore the intellectual cost of what they do, but any good businessperson can't afford to do that.
 
An example from my own experience. I'm a vegetable farmer, among other things. It drives me berserk when someone comes up to a farmers market stand and challenges me as to why X produce is so expensive at Y $/lb, when they easily grow it in their garden or neighbor Bob gives it to them from his garden. Well, those people are hobbyists. They aren't charging themselves a living wage for every hour they spend in the garden, they aren't counting the intellectual time it takes to plan out a full-scale farm, they aren't trying to support a family and health insurance and retirement savings from their fun little garden. It's not a fair comparison. 
 
As for contents, those dowels may well be standard hardware store dowels. But the point of a kit, at least most kits, is that it's self-contained. People who buy kits don't necessarily want to open it, and see the instructions start with "now go buy these other things or you can't build the kit". Would you buy a lawnmower that didn't come with sparkplugs, even though they're easy to get at a different store?
 
Of course there's a markup. There's a markup on everything you buy. Pretty much any retail product has a markup of 30-50% from wholesale, because the retailer is an independent business that has to pay for everything involved in modern life from the profits of the business. Then there's a markup over cost to reach the wholesale price, because the manufacturer has to pay for everything involved in modern life, plus the cost of developing the product in the first place. So, yeah, of course the "value" of the kit's contents don't add up to $350 in terms of what's physically there. But only someone who doesn't value others' professional time would think it would.
 
None of which is to say there aren't better and worse kits out there. I know nothing about the kit mentioned above. But, boy, a great way to get under a businessperson's skin is to complain that you could do it cheaper and better yourself. Fine, go do so, and be proud of yourself. I'm in awe of good scratchbuilders. But most of them realize they're paying themselves pennies per hour, whereas everyone involved in designing, producing, and selling a kit is trying to make a living doing it.

The value is partly intellectual property. What do you value a professional's time at? OK, consider all the hours you would put into figuring out how to scratchbuild a given model, add on more hours to figure out how to represent that process to customers, add on more hours to figure out how to design kit pieces to be easily/cost-effectively manufactured and useful to the customer, add on more hours for drafting accurate plans, and so on. That all has to be in the price of a kit. Most hobby builders (most hobbyists in general) ignore the intellectual cost of what they do, but any good businessperson can't afford to do that.
 
An example from my own experience. I'm a vegetable farmer, among other things. It drives me berserk when someone comes up to a farmers market stand and challenges me as to why X produce is so expensive at Y $/lb, when they easily grow it in their garden or neighbor Bob gives it to them from his garden. Well, those people are hobbyists. They aren't charging themselves a living wage for every hour they spend in the garden, they aren't counting the intellectual time it takes to plan out a full-scale farm, they aren't trying to support a family and health insurance and retirement savings from their fun little garden. It's not a fair comparison. 
 
As for contents, those dowels may well be standard hardware store dowels. But the point of a kit, at least most kits, is that it's self-contained. People who buy kits don't necessarily want to open it, and see the instructions start with "now go buy these other things or you can't build the kit". Would you buy a lawnmower that didn't come with sparkplugs, even though they're easy to get at a different store?
 
Of course there's a markup. There's a markup on everything you buy. Pretty much any retail product has a markup of 30-50% from wholesale, because the retailer is an independent business that has to pay for everything involved in modern life from the profits of the business. Then there's a markup over cost to reach the wholesale price, because the manufacturer has to pay for everything involved in modern life, plus the cost of developing the product in the first place. So, yeah, of course the "value" of the kit's contents don't add up to $350 in terms of what's physically there. But only someone who doesn't value others' professional time would think it would.
 
None of which is to say there aren't better and worse kits out there. I know nothing about the kit mentioned above. But, boy, a great way to get under a businessperson's skin is to complain that you could do it cheaper and better yourself. Fine, go do so, and be proud of yourself. I'm in awe of good scratchbuilders. But most of them realize they're paying themselves pennies per hour, whereas everyone involved in designing, producing, and selling a kit is trying to make a living doing it.

The value is partly intellectual property. What do you value a professional's time at? OK, consider all the hours you would put into figuring out how to scratchbuild a given model, add on more hours to figure out how to represent that process to customers, add on more hours to figure out how to design kit pieces to be easily/cost-effectively manufactured and useful to the customer, add on more hours for drafting accurate plans, and so on. That all has to be in the price of a kit. Most hobby builders (most hobbyists in general) ignore the intellectual cost of what they do, but any good businessperson can't afford to do that.
 
An example from my own experience. I'm a vegetable farmer, among other things. It drives me berserk when someone comes up to a farmers market stand and challenges me as to why X produce is so expensive at Y $/lb, when they easily grow it in their garden or neighbor Bob gives it to them from his garden. Well, those people are hobbyists. They aren't charging themselves a living wage for every hour they spend in the garden, they aren't counting the intellectual time it takes to plan out a full-scale farm, they aren't trying to support a family and health insurance and retirement savings from their fun little garden. It's not a fair comparison. 
 
As for contents, those dowels may well be standard hardware store dowels. But the point of a kit, at least most kits, is that it's self-contained. People who buy kits don't necessarily want to open it, and see the instructions start with "now go buy these other things or you can't build the kit". Would you buy a lawnmower that didn't come with sparkplugs, even though they're easy to get at a different store?
 
Of course there's a markup. There's a markup on everything you buy. Pretty much any retail product has a markup of 30-50% from wholesale, because the retailer is an independent business that has to pay for everything involved in modern life from the profits of the business. Then there's a markup over cost to reach the wholesale price, because the manufacturer has to pay for everything involved in modern life, plus the cost of developing the product in the first place. So, yeah, of course the "value" of the kit's contents don't add up to $350 in terms of what's physically there. But only someone who doesn't value others' professional time would think it would.
 
None of which is to say there aren't better and worse kits out there. I know nothing about the kit mentioned above. But, boy, a great way to get under a businessperson's skin is to complain that you could do it cheaper and better yourself. Fine, go do so, and be proud of yourself. I'm in awe of good scratchbuilders. But most of them realize they're paying themselves pennies per hour, whereas everyone involved in designing, producing, and selling a kit is trying to make a living doing it.

Hello again everyone. Progress is being made on my Bounty Launch. Sheer clamps are in as are the thwart risers and thee first, center floor board. Should I add the other floor boards before I have to squeeze the hull to add the thwarts? Will the floor boards make it more difficult to squeeze the hull? Of course, before all of that, I think I will stain the interior, prime the outside and then paint the outside. Unless there is a good reason to wait for painting? The outside of the hull has been lightly filled, all gaps were filled.. It has also been finish sanded.
 
Here she is as she sits right now.
 
Paul
 

I agree with Bob, I really appreciate the step-by-step photos and detail you're sharing, something I've been far worse about on my build. It's interesting both as a model builder, and it  helps me better understand how this machinery works. 

Looks like I had the link wrong in the first post. It's fixed now. Also, here's the photo from my log showing what this looks like.
 

Thanks everybody,
 
I can't tell you how much your comments mean to me!
 
Glenn

I agree with Bob, I really appreciate the step-by-step photos and detail you're sharing, something I've been far worse about on my build. It's interesting both as a model builder, and it  helps me better understand how this machinery works. 

Skipper, I don't see it as "justification", necessarily, but rather as an interesting exercise in how and why we make the choices we do. Sometimes, by judging or assessing others, we learn things about ourselves. There's certainly a line that can be crossed, but I don't think it's inherently unreasonable to question why something is done.

I agree with Bob, I really appreciate the step-by-step photos and detail you're sharing, something I've been far worse about on my build. It's interesting both as a model builder, and it  helps me better understand how this machinery works. 

Thanks for going into such detail on your build of the Heroine. It is interesting to see the similarities and at the same time the differences to later riverboats.
 
Bob

The deck planking is slowly going in.  It's amazing how many 4 inch wide planks it takes to cover a significant part of the deck.  Between strakes, I finally had a chance to get back to the machinery.  I was able to finish the cam frames and start on the flywheel shafts.
 
Cam frame parts fresh from the mill.

 

 
The five frames in the back show the steps in shaping and finishing the cam frame.  The middle frame on the bottom row has the pivot cut off.  The aft frames are not connected to the valves so it is not needed.  I have been debating on whether to include the repair on one of the frames.  Since it was found in the hold as a spare, It wouldn't be accurate to include it with the working machinery.  On the other hand, it is a good example of the extensive repairs on the vessel.

 
Cam frames as they would have been positioned in relation to the cam.  The stroke of this cam and cam frame was 6 inches.

 
 
Using a beam from a beam compass to align the two outboard flywheel shafts.

 
Pieces of the flywheel shaft.  On the original, the flange for the cam was cast in place.  In order to include the fake bolt heads, I had to machine it separately and slip it onto the shaft.  This also required that I turn the shaft in two pieces.

 
Shafts in their bearings with flywheel flanges attached.

 

 
 

Daves, as a business owner myself, I very much support what you've said in this forum. Customer reviews are a double-edged sword. Obviously you want to know what your customers think, but those thoughts aren't always fair, accurate, or well-informed.

Uh.. what rules?   The rules as such... build what you want, the way you want.    As for "looking stupid"... I don't think so.  The reason for this site is to learn from each other and that works in spades.   We all make mistakes but that doesn't make us stupid.
 
 
There's another purpose of this site... the build logs, the questions and answers.  They all do more for sorting things than any "official review" could ever do.  There's several manufacturers do read and post here and listen to what's being said.  

Daves, as a business owner myself, I very much support what you've said in this forum. Customer reviews are a double-edged sword. Obviously you want to know what your customers think, but those thoughts aren't always fair, accurate, or well-informed.

Skipper, I don't see it as "justification", necessarily, but rather as an interesting exercise in how and why we make the choices we do. Sometimes, by judging or assessing others, we learn things about ourselves. There's certainly a line that can be crossed, but I don't think it's inherently unreasonable to question why something is done.

One aspect I haven't seen discussed (or possibly I missed) is mental. Now that I'm nearly done with my Bertrand scratchbuild, definitely the most complex model project I've ever tackled, I'm quite looking forward to building something with instructions. The biggest different between scratch and kit building is in your head; in the former you have to think everything through ahead of time, have a complete plan for order of operations, ordering parts, making sure items are ready when you need them, doing steps in the best order, etc. Even a kit with poor instructions gives you some sense of where to proceed next, and the comfort that someone has thought through how that project works (even if they thought about it in another language).
 
I'm taking on Chuck's longboat next, and can't wait for him to tell me what do to for a little while; it's going to be very relaxing after nine months of constantly thinking about the next ten steps in my build. I can easily imagine how many people would enjoy gussying up a kit while still wanting that basic framework of instructions and such. The mental leap to personally "designing a kit" is pretty large, in my opinion.
 
Added thought: I don't at all buy the argument that ship modelling is too expensive. It's only true if you have no sense of personal economics or self-control. If you buy a soda or a candy bar every day without even thinking, you've just spent the price of a good model kit annually. My Bertrand has cost less than $300 in materials and was built with basic hand tools. I'm self-employed and live on a very tight and careful budget, and I can afford to build models because I budget for them, and make choices based on what I can afford and justify, not what I want or dream about.

Daves, as a business owner myself, I very much support what you've said in this forum. Customer reviews are a double-edged sword. Obviously you want to know what your customers think, but those thoughts aren't always fair, accurate, or well-informed.

One aspect I haven't seen discussed (or possibly I missed) is mental. Now that I'm nearly done with my Bertrand scratchbuild, definitely the most complex model project I've ever tackled, I'm quite looking forward to building something with instructions. The biggest different between scratch and kit building is in your head; in the former you have to think everything through ahead of time, have a complete plan for order of operations, ordering parts, making sure items are ready when you need them, doing steps in the best order, etc. Even a kit with poor instructions gives you some sense of where to proceed next, and the comfort that someone has thought through how that project works (even if they thought about it in another language).
 
I'm taking on Chuck's longboat next, and can't wait for him to tell me what do to for a little while; it's going to be very relaxing after nine months of constantly thinking about the next ten steps in my build. I can easily imagine how many people would enjoy gussying up a kit while still wanting that basic framework of instructions and such. The mental leap to personally "designing a kit" is pretty large, in my opinion.
 
Added thought: I don't at all buy the argument that ship modelling is too expensive. It's only true if you have no sense of personal economics or self-control. If you buy a soda or a candy bar every day without even thinking, you've just spent the price of a good model kit annually. My Bertrand has cost less than $300 in materials and was built with basic hand tools. I'm self-employed and live on a very tight and careful budget, and I can afford to build models because I budget for them, and make choices based on what I can afford and justify, not what I want or dream about.

One aspect I haven't seen discussed (or possibly I missed) is mental. Now that I'm nearly done with my Bertrand scratchbuild, definitely the most complex model project I've ever tackled, I'm quite looking forward to building something with instructions. The biggest different between scratch and kit building is in your head; in the former you have to think everything through ahead of time, have a complete plan for order of operations, ordering parts, making sure items are ready when you need them, doing steps in the best order, etc. Even a kit with poor instructions gives you some sense of where to proceed next, and the comfort that someone has thought through how that project works (even if they thought about it in another language).
 
I'm taking on Chuck's longboat next, and can't wait for him to tell me what do to for a little while; it's going to be very relaxing after nine months of constantly thinking about the next ten steps in my build. I can easily imagine how many people would enjoy gussying up a kit while still wanting that basic framework of instructions and such. The mental leap to personally "designing a kit" is pretty large, in my opinion.
 
Added thought: I don't at all buy the argument that ship modelling is too expensive. It's only true if you have no sense of personal economics or self-control. If you buy a soda or a candy bar every day without even thinking, you've just spent the price of a good model kit annually. My Bertrand has cost less than $300 in materials and was built with basic hand tools. I'm self-employed and live on a very tight and careful budget, and I can afford to build models because I budget for them, and make choices based on what I can afford and justify, not what I want or dream about.