shiloh

A good friend and fellow model builder built a model of Model Shipways "EAGLE." In the process, he dropped a paint brush on the deck. The bristles were full of red paint. Strangely enough, though the spot left on the deck was rather small, instead of trying to clean it up, he made a figure of a deckhand carrying a paint bucket of red paint and a brush. The brush was dropped, by the figure, on the deck. It too was full of red paint; guess where the deckhand's brush was dropped...right where my friend foiled the deck when he dropped his brush. It was one of the most ingenious repairs I ever saw on a model! And it looked planned. Fret not my friend.......all mistakes are repairable.........

In spite of her not being a Baltimore Class, I will be keeping close tabs on your build; the effort to get to where you are indicates she will be a heck of a model. From looking at the photos of the ship that you posted and what you said about the similarities, it looks like her hull is close enough to a Baltimore Class that your hull templates and plans, with little change, could be used for a Baltimore Class model. Not planning on building a model of the Baltimore Class in spite of riding the Helena CA 75, from 60-63 as a 3” and 8” Gunners Mate. Looking Good
jud

Jud
 
Yes with a little tweaking of the drawings I could probably come up with a Baltimore class hull.  The Baltimore’s were only about 40 feet shorter and 6 foot narrower than the Des Moines class.  The hull shape though is almost identical.  If you sat the 2 different model hulls next to one another about the only difference would be the length. 
 
Bob and Nils
 
Yes that is a custom built table just for this model.  The risers under the hull are milled for certain spots along the sheer line and screwed to the deck.  Then I screwed the risers to the table which resulted in the keel being parallel to the table.  I did all this so I could use the table as a reference when marking out for the bilges, armor plates, shafts etc.
 
Nils - Sitting is more of a necessity after I busted up my ankle a while back.  I can’t stand for a long period of time before it hurts to a point were walking from one room to the next is difficult.
 
Don

In spite of her not being a Baltimore Class, I will be keeping close tabs on your build; the effort to get to where you are indicates she will be a heck of a model. From looking at the photos of the ship that you posted and what you said about the similarities, it looks like her hull is close enough to a Baltimore Class that your hull templates and plans, with little change, could be used for a Baltimore Class model. Not planning on building a model of the Baltimore Class in spite of riding the Helena CA 75, from 60-63 as a 3” and 8” Gunners Mate. Looking Good
jud

In spite of her not being a Baltimore Class, I will be keeping close tabs on your build; the effort to get to where you are indicates she will be a heck of a model. From looking at the photos of the ship that you posted and what you said about the similarities, it looks like her hull is close enough to a Baltimore Class that your hull templates and plans, with little change, could be used for a Baltimore Class model. Not planning on building a model of the Baltimore Class in spite of riding the Helena CA 75, from 60-63 as a 3” and 8” Gunners Mate. Looking Good
jud

In spite of her not being a Baltimore Class, I will be keeping close tabs on your build; the effort to get to where you are indicates she will be a heck of a model. From looking at the photos of the ship that you posted and what you said about the similarities, it looks like her hull is close enough to a Baltimore Class that your hull templates and plans, with little change, could be used for a Baltimore Class model. Not planning on building a model of the Baltimore Class in spite of riding the Helena CA 75, from 60-63 as a 3” and 8” Gunners Mate. Looking Good
jud

"Inspection in the shipyard by the skipper".
 
My oldest daughter made these Photos. I thought I would let you see them.

Thanks Janos.
 
Shiloh,
I've glued the piece to a sacrificial chunk of wood so I can hold it and also give some strength during the process.  The spears I'm thinning the thickness down to their width (they come out looking mostly round).  But I'm taking off lots of wood all over.  When done, I'll soak it in alcohol and remove it from the backing.
 
 
I guess I'll carry on for now (unless I really cobble it) and go for what looks right.  If I do cobble it, I'll go for some 4" (scale) and save some aggrevation.

nice work, even a tilting head for your mill.
jud

Kind of looks like those two outboard frame members should have been parallel to the keel, with the cross beam in the notches. The planking probably is not straight there and using the notch and keel for alignment would allow a uniform curve of the planking. My opinion is based only on what I read and see in the last few posts, I have not built this model. Good Luck
jud

Mehmet,  several years ago I was able to attend a seminar and talk by Shep Paine R.I.P.  And he offered some good advice on weathering.  It this "What is the effect or scene you are trying to achieve.  Is it a tug or a trawler that just got back or something that has been abandoned.  I was able to go to the Mariner's Contest years ago and saw a diorama that blew me away.  It was of a coast guard ice breaker in the North Atlantic in Dec.  The weathering was subtle but the longer you looked the more you could see.  The vessel was seaworthy but ice and frost made you shiver in sympathy.
David B

No Mark, the mouse has a flat surface on the bottom and would not work on concave surfaces. Hence is works fine on the outside planking of a hull but not on the inside.
 
I was curious if the mouse is still available. It has changed a bit but is still there at Home Depot for $40.
 http://www.homedepot.com/p/BLACK-DECKER-Mouse-1-2-Amp-Detail-Sander-BDEMS600/205545909
Be careful of others that are a bit cheaper but don't have the flexible tip.

A low order or small charge that would raise the internal pressure a few psi could spring old Teredo Worm compromised planking or rotted Hull Timbers, opening seams that would quickly fill and sink her.
jud

Thank you dear friend. There is no reason not to be confident The point is in patience. You can write with pencil by hand ? Thin lines exactly where you want? There is no reason  not to repeat this with top of scalpel. There is one difference - you use pencil last 10-20-30-40-50 years, and just "start" to use scalpel. Believe me, if you write with scalpel next 10-20-30-40-50 years often as with pencile, you can make wonders. So, patience and exercise.    
 
 
 
 
Thanks for nice words Michael. Situation calmed down, new Hothead`s flat resolved, Princess have got her employment contract renewal, Old Lady ...  things go where it has to go, in time schedule which no one can know - up and down, and up and down, down and up ...  everything seems to be under control 

thank you all for nice comments, I will definitely keep them in mind.
 
I guess next step is to renew some parts of the boat, maybe a new paint on the hull and removal of the excessive rust on metal parts;  as I want this model to be still in use (I will add hard head diving suit and manually operated air pump from 1950's, some collected sponges , maybe cooking stuff like pots etc.)
note : this over weathering is inevitable in my models unfortunately, I can't keep my self once I start :-)
 
best
 
mehmet

Only because you asked.
In spite of what I follow this with, your model shows skill and a well developed knowleged about how to use paint to obtain the effect you are going for.
Does not look sea worthy with all the openings from breakage and poor fitting. A boat can be aged, with the finish well worn or even gone and still be sea worthy. If the old vessel is still in service, it will show that someone is using her. Your efforts show consistency in your application of the finish, but maybe you overdid it.  To me this model appears to be a vessel sadly just draged above the tide mark and abandended to collect guano.
Just as she is, she could be the focus piece of an old fishing beach dorma.
jud

Only because you asked.
In spite of what I follow this with, your model shows skill and a well developed knowleged about how to use paint to obtain the effect you are going for.
Does not look sea worthy with all the openings from breakage and poor fitting. A boat can be aged, with the finish well worn or even gone and still be sea worthy. If the old vessel is still in service, it will show that someone is using her. Your efforts show consistency in your application of the finish, but maybe you overdid it.  To me this model appears to be a vessel sadly just draged above the tide mark and abandended to collect guano.
Just as she is, she could be the focus piece of an old fishing beach dorma.
jud

There may have been an explosion that didn't pulverize the structure so the guns, anchors and bottom timbers stayed pretty much in place.  It's in 800 feet of water so kind of hard to survey, plus the legal battle has probably delayed any exploration.

nice work, even a tilting head for your mill.
jud

I have some additional insight.
 
I was traveling in Sydney in October and was able to talk with two sailing masters about bolt ropes, cringles, and serving.
 
I was able to speak to the master of the HMB Endeavor.  I noticed that some of the cringles on the stay sails aboard the HMB Endeavor were wormed and served while others weren't, while still others were wormed, served, and leathered.  Further these were analogous cringles (for example tack cringle on one stay sail vs. tack cringle on another).  So I asked the master why they were different.  She said that it depended upon whether they had an eye (a detail I didn't notice) or how much they would they were used or chance of being chaffed.  She said if the cringle would experience a great deal of wear and abrasion, then a metal eye was used and the bolt rope was wrapped abound the eye and seized without serving.  She said that no serving of the line was needed if the metal eye was used since the eye took all the wear. If the cringle was expected to have less wear, but still substantial then the cringle was served and leathered. If the line had even less wear then it was just served.
 
I was able to also talk with the sailing master of a restored ship that was in Sydney harbor for a few days.  I took the name, but I can't find it right now.  It turned out that he also loved the Cutty Sark and was very knowledgeable about sailing ships of the late 1800's.  He told me essentially the same info that the HMB Endeavor's Master had provided about the cringles.  He added that the earrings of the square sails were often served even if they did have a metal ring since the sails were in contact with the yard arms.  Concerning the bolt ropes, he said that he had also come across historic accounts of the Cutty as well as other ships where the information did not match between sources.  He said that it was because the details of how the sails were set up, such as serving, metal eyes, etc.were up to the Master.  Also the Master may change some of that set up at sea depending on how the sails were wearing.  So if you went aboard the same ship during different times with the same master or a different master, those sail details and even the size of the sails might be different.  He said that he wouldn't sweat those details on a model, any combination of serving, eyes, etc would be acceptable.  I told him of the HMB Edveavor's stay sails not all being set up the same.  He said that it was a perfect example of what he was talking about and showed me examples of the same inconsistencies on his ship.  On his ship the top sails had their lower bolt rope - the foot rope- served.  He said it was because they rub against the stays.  I told him that I have accounts of the Cutty with and without it's foot ropes served.  He said that it probably depended upon which sails and when the observations were made.  If the observations were from the early 20th century when she was a training vessel or when she was being used as the Frederica it was probably because of the same issue as his ship and they wanted to make the sails last longer without having to replace the foot rope (bolt rope) of those sails.  However, she probably didn't have the foot rope served when she was in the tea and wool trade trying to break records.  He said that the bolt rope adds weight to the sail and doesn't allow it to have as rounded a belly for the square sails, so the master would have sucked up having to repair the sails more often for the gain in speed.  He also said it wouldn't have been two unusual to have 2 or 3 suits of sails, light weather sails, a duplicate or heavier set and a foul weather set.  He also showed me where the standing rigging was served to prevent chaffing of the standing rigging from the running rigging or other standing rigging.
 
We were talking about working on the yards.  He said that when he was kid he almost never used the foot ropes that hang down from the yards.  He said that they used to walk out on the top of the yards and then hop down and swing over to the foot ropes when they got to the end of the yard.  He said that you can't do that anymore due to safety concerns and everyone is harnessed onto the yards.  He said that they also used to go between the mast by walking along the stays.  He said that there were usually enough lines that you could grab one to another as you walked across.  
 
I also asked him the royal and sky masts in old paintings and models.  They don't usually have Jacobs ladders or rat lines.   He said that they weren't needed - any sailor could get up those masts just by shinnying up the mast, they could also just go up a shroud.  He said that many professional sailors can still go up that way.  A crew was working on the ship and when they came down, the master told one to go up the back stay to the top for me.  The guy went over to the rail and grabbed the stay (I noticed he didn't have a harness on, but I didn't say anything).  He went up hand-over-hand very quickly to the top and then slid back down the stay.  He also went up the fore castle without using the ladder for me.  I had a question about how hard it was to get up when you're at sea and the steps are stowed away as they were on the Cutty.  He just stepped on the Windlass and grabbed what I think was a jib sheet and when right up onto the deck, then just swung/stepped down.  He was actually much, much, faster getting up and down to the fore castle this way than I was using the steps. Finally the same sailor went back to work going up the ratlines and over the outside to the top without slowing when he hit the futtock shrouds.  The only thing that slightly slowed him down was transferring his safety line and that didn't slow him much.
 
 
When I have seen videos of crews, mainly volunteer crews work a tall ship it was much different than watching this professional sailor.   
 
It is always amazing how helpful and friendly sailors are when you show an interest in their work and have some knowledge about the ship and its working.  These guys were great at filling in some of the gaps!
 
Marc

nice work, even a tilting head for your mill.
jud

nice work, even a tilting head for your mill.
jud

A few of my homemade machines...

Mike this may be a far out idea for you.  I live in Sun City, Arizona, Sun City is what is known here as a retirement Community.  That means if you are under 55 you can't live here.  As a somewhat closed Community it has several, Recreation Centers, in these centers are Gymnasiums and various hobby workshops, among them wood working shops. These shops are run by retired guys expert in woodworking, cabinet making etc. and have magnificently stocked work spaces. Virtually every wood working tool you can imagine.  I too was wrestling with whether or not to get a planer or thickness sander. Knowing it would be only occasionally used, I decided to ask the boys in the wood working shop if they would let me use theirs....they said NO, but would be glad to do whatever I needed done for me.  They said to use the equipment myself I would have to undergo a training class at $9.00/hr for 5 hrs, then pass  test first.  Had strictly t do with safety an not wanting their tools destroyed by some amateur.
Anyway, and this would have been shorter if I had just said...see if there are any retirement communities around, or check for wood working clubs.  They are all good guys just like us, but with less fingers ;o)
Tom

Per,
Like most other machine tools, the accessories are the budget killer.  I read somewhere that with lathes and mills, expect to spend as much, if not more, than the machine cost on tooling and accessories.   I have found that very true.