mikiek

Joel posted links to a few write ups he put together in my log. A lot of that and my thinking is formed by some common sense and putting 2 & 2 together. In my mind some of the determining factors were: 1. Erie (the assembly point) was a small village/town barely accessible by land. There was access by water. It was primarily just subsistence living there, no real trade or industry. All shipbuilders and associated crafts were imported for the construction. 2. The boats built there were built for 1 fight, not long term usage. Follow up battles by either side were not anticipated as the losing squadron would either be captured or decimated. This would make one assume that only the items needed for a battle would have been built/installed. Also items that might be detrimental to a battle - i.e. deck structures - were likely left out. 3. Other than wood, almost all materials were either imported or improvised, again leading to the assumption that only what was absolutely needed was installed. 4. Since sorties were of short duration and usually some shoreline was nearby, a lot of items required for long term voyages would be left out i.e large food and water stores. Just my W.A.G.

I used to blacken but got tired of getting the black all over everything - it rubs off. Tamiya makes an acrylic paint called Dark Iron and I have started using that. If you do blacken, one thing I found that helps is after blackening put a coat or two of flat/matte lacquer on it. It seals up the black pretty well. If you remember the carronade pix in my log, that is what was done for the barrels. I can hold those in my hand and nothing rubs off.

That will certainly give you 2 different looks - kind of a cool idea. I have never coppered so I don't know what is involved. The only thing I can think of is when looking at the stained side would you see the edges of the copper plates at the bow & stern?

Your take is good as gold to me.

I wasn't overly impressed with the kit capstan either. I thought about dressing it up with some "ironwork" but simple is the mantra. Darrell, the capstan is something you might have some fun with. If you could get some pics of capstans for that period. Joel do you really think there might have been a windlass?

Your structures look great Darrell.

Good job on the nibbing strake!

Of course on the flip side, the coppering would probably be a good experience.

I agree with Brian. It's a lot of trial & error. Hopefully it doesn't take too many attempts. If you like the color of your planking Minwax Natural Stain might be an option. No real color it just gives the wood a 'wet' look. That's what I've been using on the boxwood. If you take a damp rag and wipe the planks, you will get an idea what it looks like. BTW - according to the plans what color was the hull (the uncoppered part) supposed to be?

Ah yes, the capstan. Just out of curiosity, do they use it in the modern version?

I think this is becoming a lesson of scale. What can be done and what can't. Tonite I built a tackle with 3/32 blocks and .012 rope. It looks OK. I even did the wrapping of the excess between the blocks like the picture. That's where things went south. It looks funny. The rope is too small to really see what it is. I have no problems going with the smaller parts - I'd like to be as accurate as I can. I just don't like the excess rope coiled on the deck so the wrapping seemed like a viable alternative. I'm thinking about maybe not having any excess. Just enough rope to reave the blocks and then glue the loose end somewhere. At that scale it might not look too bad.

You've no idea how many attempts I made at squaring off the companionway. When Joel mentioned that the original probably didn't have any structures, it didn't take but a second for me to get on that wagon. Nice idea!

All opinions are welcome Chuck. The reason for the .025 rope in the tackles is I want to wrap the excess between the blocks -per the pic - rather than coils on the deck. I tried .008 and .012 rope and when I did the wrapping, it just didn't look right. Too much like thread and not enough like rope. The .018 rope looked better but I thought the .025 looked best when wrapped. But honestly, I threw that all together last nite and have not yet hooked it to the carronade so maybe I'll think differently then. Perhaps at that scale, I'm expecting too much. You can see some of my other attempts with smaller parts in earlier posts. I'm still in decision mode, so I will take your input into consideration.

Nicely done Darrell - your wood working skill is shining thru.

Man - it's never easy. Just got word from Chuck that he will not be able to produce the plastic hooks anymore. I was hoping to get some of the 4mm size for the carronade rigging. Too bad, I think they would have been the ticket. I still have quite a few of the 3mm plastic hooks, so the decision is 3mm plastic (they look the best but are a tad small and not terribly strong) or 4mm brass (best size but don't look as good as the plastic-too flat). I'll let you guys know when I decide.

Hey everyone - it's taken some time but I am starting to get an idea of what I will use for carronade rigging. I've tried a lot of combinations of different parts - all from Chuck at Syren - and am just about there. I have one more item I want to try with the hooks, but here is what I will be using: 1/8" single blocks .008 black rope for stropping the hooks .025 light brown rope for the tackles .035 light brown rope for the breech line 4mm hooks - material T.B.D. The hooks is what I am still looking at. First I used the 3mm plastic version. They looked good albeit a little small, so I picked up both some 3mm and 4mm brass hooks. While I still may use them, I don't like the look quite as much as the plastic hooks. The brass are fairly flat, whereas the plastic had a slight 3D look to them. The brass will also need to be colored, either blackened or painted. I do like the 4mm size vs the 3mm. I was going to order some 4mm plastic hooks last nite but Syren may be out at the moment. I am following up with Chuck to find out when they will be available. The .025 rope allowed me to wrap the extra between the blocks - similar to the carronade pic that Joel posted here a few posts back. I like this look compared to the coils, especially considering there will be 5 tackles per gun. All those coils lying on the deck would not look good IMO. Here's a few pix with the combination listed above and the 4mm brass hooks. Your comments and impressions are welcome.

Those dang pictures! Always showing us what we don't want to see Thanks for the update Don. Can't wait to see how things progress.

Hey buddy - I agree with Ian. Consider showing your work and just keep the build all wood.

Transom is quite nice! That is a tough one. Didn't realize you will be coppering. Are you going to fully plank first? If yes, I have one suggestion. After you complete your first band - the upper one - do the garboard and the first 2 or 3 strakes up from that. The garboard can be a bear - lots of twisting & bending depending on the hull shape. The first few strakes after the garboard can be tough also. The reason for the suggestion is you may need to readjust your bands after that. Don't forget that like we soak and bend planks, you can soak and twist them as well. That sure helped me. The thing to remember is if you twist the strip clockwise for the port side you will need to twist it counter clockwise for starboard.

Darrell - A while back I ordered a bunch of rope. Many sizes and colors. Same with the blocks. That's what allowed me to do what I have done the last few days. I hate to sound wishy washy but I have already changed once. The .008 rope was too thin to do anything with all the extra - so I rule that out. The next size up rope - .012 - just doesn't fit in the 3/32 blocks. So 1/8 is the only choice. Even that rope didn't look all that good when the extra was wound up. So .018, which also fits in the 1/8 block looks to be the best so far. I had one of each size laid out and tried to shoot a pic but it really doesn't show the difference. The .018 rope with 1/8 blocks are what I am leaning towards. You have some options with the extra rope and they are still small enough so it doesn't get crowded. I did try a 5/32 block and it is starting to look too big. The only thing I didn't try was the next biggest rope .025 in the 1/8 block. None of those 3 look bad, but the .018 rope will look better coiled or wound up between the blocks (like in Joel's pic). The .018 dictates a 1/8 block. Original hooks were 3mm but I have ordered some 4mm. If you look at Joel's carronade pic, the hooks are almost as big as the blocks. I hope they will be easier to hook on to the split rings as well. The hooks should arrive by the end of the week. Chuck is in NJ so you would probably have them in a day or so. One thing to consider - if you are replacing blocks for the guns you should probably do it across the board. So take stock of the other blocks on the materials list and get the equivalent from Chuck. If you have any concerns, send him an email. He is quick to respond and can help you decide how to replace the other blocks. Vague enough?

Another sleepless nite. Second in a row. So I'll see if I can show the stropping of the 3mm hooks (brass) to the 3/32" blocks and have it make sense. I will claim right now I did not originate any of these ideas. I just combined steps from a number of other sources into something that worked for me. First off, the stuff is tiny! Pretty much too small to work with without holding them in tweezers or some other type of grippers. I used 1 pair of locking tweezers with the rough inner surface to hold the hook or block and another pair that comes to a fine point to hold the thread. One other thing I will show is a very fine CA applicator. I just found out about these a few months back and figured everyone must know about them. However a work associate who claims to be a modeler for 30+ years (cars & planes) had never heard of them so I'll show them here in case there are others. It's just an eyedropper of sorts with a VERY small tip. Once you get some CA inside (I use medium) you can apply the tiniest of dots to a surface. Very useful - I apply all my CA with these things. The CA will stay workable for a week or so and then you just toss it and get a new one. One of the best tools I have come across. One other step that is used a lot is to dip the end of your ropes in some CA (medium again), wipe it down and let dry. This stiffens up the end so that it threads into the small holes easier. After it dries you can also cut the end at a sharp angle to make a point which also makes it easier to thread. You can squirt a blob of CA onto a piece of wax paper and it will stay usable for some time. What we want to end up with is a 3mm photo etched hook stropped to the 3/32" block. I ruled out wire pretty quick. It would have had to be very thin and probably hard to work with plus it would need to be painted or blackened which would be problematic. Instead I used .008 black rope. The 3/32 blocks are difficult to hold to work with so I made a jig to keep it and free up a hand. So cut a piece about 2"-3" long and dip one end in CA to harden. Trim the end to a point. Grab a hook with the locking tweezers so that the loop at the end of the hook is exposed. Grab the rope with the pointed tweezers and thread thru the loop. Here you can see the result and also the jig I mentioned. Next ream out the holes in your block. You don't have to enlarge them but do make sure they are open all the way thru. Put the block onto the jig. No that's not blood. Just some dried Chili Red paint. I glued a couple of square strips to the mock up station to hold the jig. Slide the hook to the midpoint of the rope and then fold the rope in half grabbing both ends between thumb & finger. Wet down the ends, just a swipe over your tongue should do then thread the ends thru a piece of tube (I used styrene). The hole in the tube needs to be small. Leave a bit of a loop on the side with the hook. Position the loop over the block on the jig. Line up the thread with the grooves in the block holding the ends of the thread with thumb & finger. Once lined up grab the tube with tweezers and slide it up tightly against the block. Hold it in place there with thumb & finger. This makes it easy to hold everything in place. If needed, straighten out the hook so it extends straight out from the block and then put a dot of CA at the base of the hook so it holds that position (learned that one the hard way). Put another dot of CA on the thread and block to hold that side in place. Count to 10 and then carefully slide the tube off. At this point you should have thread secured to the top side of the block. Quickly grab the end of that thread with tweezers. With the other tweezers grap the thread on the bottom side of the block. Gently pull it tight and then over onto the top side and lay it flat and parallel with the other thread. If your CA is still not dried this will hold the thread in place. If it is dried add another small dot. Either way count to 10 again then let go. Slide the block off the jig. Apply a dot of CA to what was the bottom side of the block. The thread on both sides of the block should be glued now. Let the glue dry for a few minutes and then trim the ends. For the carronades, repeat 179 more times Please note, in a recent post I have decided to upsize the parts. At least that's the direction for today. I will be using a 1/8" block and am also going to try 4mm hooks. I will use the same size rope (.008) for stropping the hook. Hope this may help someone. At the very least it will help jog my memory 6 months from now

I'm no lathe expert and I'm sure my technique is all wrong. But the rest allowed me to put some pressure on the stick and it sanded down a lot faster.

Joel - I'm trying to get some sort of perspective with your carronade pic. Any idea of the size of the tackle rope or breech line?

Is all your cherry the same color? The mast stock looks more red. Have you tried a steady rest on your lathe? It sure helped me.

I'm really beat tonite. Was almost NOT going to do any building, which would have been the first day in months I haven't done something. However, I've been thinking about all the loose ropes in the mock up and what I will do with them. If you haven't seen the pix Joel posted, scroll up a few posts and check out the carronade. THAT is how I want to rig mine. So I took a tackle off the gun and clipped each block in a holder. I was about to try to wind the loose rope around the ropes between the blocks and it hit me. The .008 rope is just too thin. It looked terrible when I tried to wrap it like the pic. I'm not sure it could be coiled. So what now. I knew I should have gone to bed I have quite a few sizes of rope, so the thought was go up from .008 to .012 . Have you ever tried cramming .012 rope into a 3/32 block? I don't know that it's possible without seriously reaming the holes. I also have various sized blocks so I went from 3/32 to 1/8. The bigger rope fits. So I rigged up a tackle with that combination, but even the .012 didn't look all that good when I wrapped the extra up. Well, I have .018 rope as well. This is about the size where the thread really starts looking like miniature rope. And .018 will fit in the 1/8 blocks after running a #73 bit thru the holes. So I rigged up that combination. Looking better! That's as big as I will take it for now. I need to seriously study Joel's pix and see if I can figure out what is closest to that. The blocks in the pic don't seem that large but the rope does. The block/rope proportions don't seem the same in my mock ups. I'm going to leave it there for tonite.....