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MESSIS

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    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    As first I had to extend the short keel of the Dusek bireme. The bireme has a length of 395mm, that represents a ship of 28 meters length. Far to short for the long ship of Odysseus which was between 35 and 40 meters. The bireme has two rows of oars, one above the other on each side, with 13 oars each row, where the Penteconter had a single row on each side, but with far more oars, 25 on each side.


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    MESSIS got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Upper deck, or the bridge connecting forecastle and quarterdeck/poop deck, is done. Now is time to begin planking,
     
    That said, appears to me that I have to explain that this is not the way a penteconter was build. On  the contrary, at those ages, it was the other way around, It was build with the shell-first construction method. That is the planking was made prior to the framing of the ship. The frames were coming after planking. Of course here I could not follow this method so I proceed as the usual method frame first and then planking, that is the method that came later, after the 7th century bc.
     
    For the planking there is discussion. Were the ships planks  those days  joined together with mortise and tenons or if they were laced on each other. Although Homer describes Odysseus building a ship or some kind of a vessel, in order to leave Calypsos island, but although he explains clearly how Odysseus joins the planking, ‘’ he bored them all and fit them together and then with pegs and fasteners he hammer it together…” the various translations have produced a disagreement. In any case the laced method is the older method, that means that in Homers time most probably the new method -mortise-tenons- was used,
    Lionel Casson and many other scholars believe that probably penteconter were build with the modern method of mortise and tenons. Also at the substantial period the laced method was mostly found in wrecks around Egypt.




  4. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from mtaylor in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    @Louie da fly u r always welcome, as always!
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    MESSIS got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    As first I had to extend the short keel of the Dusek bireme. The bireme has a length of 395mm, that represents a ship of 28 meters length. Far to short for the long ship of Odysseus which was between 35 and 40 meters. The bireme has two rows of oars, one above the other on each side, with 13 oars each row, where the Penteconter had a single row on each side, but with far more oars, 25 on each side.


  8. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from RussR in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Therefor the sources available are Homer’s works, Iliad ana Odyssey, the ancient vases of Homer’s life time, that is the time from the 8th to the 7th century bc and lastly the archaeological findings from the ship wrecks. Although is common knowledge that Homer’s epics refer to the Trojan war, that according to Heinrich Schliemann findings are dated in the 13th to the 12th century bc., Homer’s  naval references correspond  the naval reality of his life time.
     
     
    Out of a study of the above topics, I came to the conclusion (and I am not the first to do so) that Odysseus ship was a πεντηκόντορος, a penteconter. It had, as also her Greek name designates,  50 oars. That is 25 in each side. It also had a single mast with a single square sail. It was a very long boat, hence this type of ship, even the smaller ones with 30 or 20 oars, were described as long vessels (νῆες μακραί, nḗes makraí ).
     
    For the reconstruction project, of building Odysseus ship, I got two model ship kits from Dusek, that is the Greek bireme, in order to use/merge their elements  and to by pass  trivial work, which is supplied by the kits.
     
     
    Christos
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    MESSIS got a reaction from ccoyle in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Therefor the sources available are Homer’s works, Iliad ana Odyssey, the ancient vases of Homer’s life time, that is the time from the 8th to the 7th century bc and lastly the archaeological findings from the ship wrecks. Although is common knowledge that Homer’s epics refer to the Trojan war, that according to Heinrich Schliemann findings are dated in the 13th to the 12th century bc., Homer’s  naval references correspond  the naval reality of his life time.
     
     
    Out of a study of the above topics, I came to the conclusion (and I am not the first to do so) that Odysseus ship was a πεντηκόντορος, a penteconter. It had, as also her Greek name designates,  50 oars. That is 25 in each side. It also had a single mast with a single square sail. It was a very long boat, hence this type of ship, even the smaller ones with 30 or 20 oars, were described as long vessels (νῆες μακραί, nḗes makraí ).
     
    For the reconstruction project, of building Odysseus ship, I got two model ship kits from Dusek, that is the Greek bireme, in order to use/merge their elements  and to by pass  trivial work, which is supplied by the kits.
     
     
    Christos
  11. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Cathead in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    As first I had to extend the short keel of the Dusek bireme. The bireme has a length of 395mm, that represents a ship of 28 meters length. Far to short for the long ship of Odysseus which was between 35 and 40 meters. The bireme has two rows of oars, one above the other on each side, with 13 oars each row, where the Penteconter had a single row on each side, but with far more oars, 25 on each side.


  12. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from RussR in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    As first I had to extend the short keel of the Dusek bireme. The bireme has a length of 395mm, that represents a ship of 28 meters length. Far to short for the long ship of Odysseus which was between 35 and 40 meters. The bireme has two rows of oars, one above the other on each side, with 13 oars each row, where the Penteconter had a single row on each side, but with far more oars, 25 on each side.


  13. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from VTHokiEE in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    As first I had to extend the short keel of the Dusek bireme. The bireme has a length of 395mm, that represents a ship of 28 meters length. Far to short for the long ship of Odysseus which was between 35 and 40 meters. The bireme has two rows of oars, one above the other on each side, with 13 oars each row, where the Penteconter had a single row on each side, but with far more oars, 25 on each side.


  14. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Edwardkenway in Odysseus homeric ship (penteconter) by MESSIS - FINISHED - kit-bashed from Dusek bireme   
    Therefor the sources available are Homer’s works, Iliad ana Odyssey, the ancient vases of Homer’s life time, that is the time from the 8th to the 7th century bc and lastly the archaeological findings from the ship wrecks. Although is common knowledge that Homer’s epics refer to the Trojan war, that according to Heinrich Schliemann findings are dated in the 13th to the 12th century bc., Homer’s  naval references correspond  the naval reality of his life time.
     
     
    Out of a study of the above topics, I came to the conclusion (and I am not the first to do so) that Odysseus ship was a πεντηκόντορος, a penteconter. It had, as also her Greek name designates,  50 oars. That is 25 in each side. It also had a single mast with a single square sail. It was a very long boat, hence this type of ship, even the smaller ones with 30 or 20 oars, were described as long vessels (νῆες μακραί, nḗes makraí ).
     
    For the reconstruction project, of building Odysseus ship, I got two model ship kits from Dusek, that is the Greek bireme, in order to use/merge their elements  and to by pass  trivial work, which is supplied by the kits.
     
     
    Christos
  15. Laugh
    MESSIS got a reaction from Scottish Guy in New to ship modelling? But what do you build first?   
    Sorry for my disagreement.... but I advise Scotch Whiskey!😉
     
     
    Anyway you guys, I really enjoyed your conversation about "what do you build first".
     
    Here is my own beginners story:
     
     The pattern I followed was succesful but actualy  I followed it unitentionally.
     
    Without reallising it by the time , I went up,  through the road of history. I just followed boat building  through time: 500 BC first build, 350 BC second and so on... 10th century  AC and now lastly  a 17th century build.
     
    First build 2015 Bireme by Amati 450bc. Finished with succes (beginners succes)(here in gallery)
     
    Second build 2016 "Olkas".Thats an ancient greek trade ship (350bc). I got it as a gift in a box without label.There was a drawing in greek and it was a kit for the "Kyrenia Ship" found in Cyprus sea back in the 60s.I modified it to a more general variation and made  out of the Kyrenia model a typical variation of olkas (the greek trade ship of that era)(here in gallery)
     
    Third 2017, was the well known  Drakkar (viking ship) apr. 9-10th century AC  from Amati. Worked and finished it it with more than a few modificatios. (here in Gallery)
     
    And now lastly (started March 2017) Artesanias Hermione.... (build log available here in MSW)
     
    So in this way the challenge had a porortionality,  based on the actual shipbuilding historical development through time.
     
    Ofcourse a lot of reading was nescesary. Also I got a lot of help through friends here in our MSW Blog. 
     
    Tools were purchased through the needs of each model,  but also alongside my maturing skills and expirience.
     
    Lastly I dont know if it really helped me the fact that I studied and had some expirience as a mechanical enginner.
     
    Never the less I rather believe that wooden model ship building needs mainly two ingredients: "passion and patience".
     
    ok guys thats my contribution to your enjoyable discussion
     
    Christos
     
  16. Like
    MESSIS reacted to EJ_L in Greek Bireme by Robin Lous - FINISHED - Dusek - Scale 1:72 - First wooden ship build   
    Sometimes it is just easier to push through and do a bunch at a time. Monotonous yes but then you are done! Off to a good start and I know that when you are done they will be another great addition to your bireme.
  17. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from EJ_L in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Varnish applied 


  18. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from DelF in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Varnish applied 


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    MESSIS got a reaction from egkb in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Varnish applied 


  21. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Mike Dowling in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Varnish applied 


  22. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Dilbert55 in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Varnish applied 


  23. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from Landrotten Highlander in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Varnish applied 


  24. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from EJ_L in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Starboard  2nd oak planking needs some more sanding.  Port still going on.

  25. Like
    MESSIS got a reaction from GrandpaPhil in Royal Caroline by Messis - FINISHED - Panart - 1/48   
    Starboard  2nd oak planking needs some more sanding.  Port still going on.

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