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Hubac's Historian

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  1. Hubac's Historian
    Oh, and concerning the main deck ports and their lack of verticality. I agree with both you and Michel about this. Dan noticed the error as well. This is one of those things that I'm not willing to correct on this plastic model because it would necessitate re-cutting and re-framing the ports, and completely re-creating the acanthus escutcheon carvings between ports. When I eventually do a full scratch-build, I will address that issue then.
  2. Hubac's Historian
    Hi Cedric, Thank you for the excellent advice. Co-incidentally, I had been thinking about adding that second port on the poop. The issue will be shortening the secondary poop deck (poop royal deck?), but this was a necessary accomodation, anyway, as a result of lowering the sheer line. So, last night I drew in the port. Rather than a circular port to match, though, I chose the octagonal profile, seen in the Berain/Compardel portraits. Perhaps they should match, but for now, I think it still looks good. I will post a picture update after I place all of the ornaments on the frieze. Your plan for the quarter gallery looks right on-point to me. A four foot projection from the hull scales out to just a hare less than 1/2", which matches the width of the stern windows. I think you are right about the degree of bulwark ornamentation in 1669. In addition to the examples you cited, there are several others that show only a simple field of fleur-de-lis. However, what I think I am trying to re-create is the re-fit ornament of 1689, which would represent the full development and expression of the French baroque style. Afterwards, the crown would become increasingly interested in paring down these excesses. Cedric, are you using GIMP for your drafting, or some other program?
  3. Hubac's Historian
    Drawing continues. The frieze lattice is now in place, and I can now draft and scale the shells, fleur-de-lis and folliate diamonds that will ornament the frieze. This was remarkably tedious to draw. I designed the frieze lattice to be a repeating pattern, every 3/4", like wallpaper. I had thought I could simply draft one vertical section from main gun-deck to sheer strake, then copy, paste and position it every 3/4". Then, I figured I'd just erase whatever sections were not necessary. Well, that wasn't going to work. As the sheer of the bulwarks rises, towards the stern, the height between ribbon strakes tapers wider; so it could not simply be a matter of re-scaling. Everything had to be drawn to fit. There is yet to be done some clean-up and tying off of loose ends, but I think this gives me a good, open framework for the rest of the ornament.
  4. Hubac's Historian
    What a shame that these remarkable vessels lived such a sheltered life - away from the eyes of those who could accurately record their magnificence! And so, we are left to scratch our heads and wonder at it all. That is why SR is so captivating for me. She's like a puzzle that is missing so many pieces; and yet, we can see a shadow of truth, a glimmer of what she once was. You make a great point, Cedric, about the state of diplomatic relations between France and the Netherlands. I will definitely be PM'ing you when I get stumped - which is to say, often.
  5. Hubac's Historian
    The rig is really shaping up beautifully, EJ - all obsessive hours well spent!
  6. Hubac's Historian
    Hey Dan - that is certainly an intriguing thought. Much as fhe superficial interior bulkheads would be struck as the crew beat to quarters, it would make sense to have removable quarter panels to both preserve these expensive decorative works and reduce the carnage causing splinter potential of wood flying through the air, during battle. But, I don't know whether that was a thing or not. All the best source material is written in French, and I could very likely have skimmed past that detail in deciding what passages to translate more thoroughly.
  7. Hubac's Historian
    Why couldn't the marine "photographers" of that time, the Van de Veldes, have drawn more of the important French ships? When it comes to stern architecture, little is more confusing than French practice. Ships of a similar size to SR, but still slightly smaller across the main beam, nevertheless, often had more than SR's six stern windows; as shown, the Monarch had seven and I believe La Reyne carried eight (not including the quarter galleries). This seems to have been a matter of scale and builder's preference, although certainly in many cases, the number of stern windows would be inextricably tied to the layout of the proposed decoration. When it comes to the question of open or closed, or partially open quarter galleries - generally speaking, the quarters before the Reglement of 1671 (or is it 1673?) are largely open. Thereafter, increasingly, there is a shift toward closing the quarter galleries, as the English had long been doing, by this point. Yet, there was little enforcement of any of these early regulations, which were early attempts to standardize construction practices, so there remained a great deal of variation on the subject right up to and into the construction of the Second Marine, following the La Hogue disaster in 1692. That is why, in the absence of credible drawings from the period, it really is anyone's educated guess as to the actual or intended arrangement of the stern for any of these great ships. In the case of La Reyne, though, the arrangement is really pretty clear. All of the important information is laid out in those two VDV drawings.
  8. Hubac's Historian
    Hi Cedric, Yes, at best, I think these images are vaguely impressionistic; somewhere, in there, is some truth about SR's appearance. If anyone does know, it is likely to be Michel. As always, I welcome anyone to come forward with their insight and opinions. I believe Michel had mentioned, once, that the Puget drawings for SR's ornamentation exist somewhere in the Louvre. My understanding is that Berain re-interpreted these drawings (and presumably, elements of the ships first ornamentation) to create a new decor, at the time of her refit. Has anyone out there ever seen these first Puget drawings?
  9. Hubac's Historian
    Not because it particularly informs this build, but simply because I happened upon these images in my recent internet searches - I would like to point out a few things regarding the early appearance of SR. It would be difficult to argue that the following two images are of any significant value as historical references, other than as folk-art, but nevertheless they seem to be the only two images that represent the very first incarnation of Soleil Royal, before her re-fit: While these two images seem to differ more than they agree (the presence of a middle-deck entry port on one, the relative profussion of upper bulwark ornamentation on the first image, the location of the main and fore channels), it is interesting to note where there is agreement. In particular, the arrangement of the headrails and the figurehead are very similar. And while the depiction of these details is crude, I will say that they seem to mimic what we can see of La Reyne's headrail arrangement. This is the main reason why I believe these images to be representative of SR, after her launching. What's really interesting to me is what little we can see of the stern ornamentation. It is known that Peter Puget designed the original ornamentation and he is well known, and often maligned, for his large figurative works. What I find interesting about the first drawing is the large nereid figure between the middle and quarter deck levels of the stern. A similar figure appears in the more realistic second drawing. Likewise, at the lower deck level, where the stern evolves into the counter timber, the first drawing shows a horse figure, which may also exist in the second drawing. It seems to me that, in actuality, these figures probably looked very much like the proposed and actual ornament for The Monarch of 1668 - another of the vessels that Puget designed ornamentation for. I don't think it is too far a leap of faith to say that, in her original appearance, Soleil Royal was probably architecturally and ornamentally a very similar ship to the Monarch. The particular motifs would have been different, but the probable arrangement of her quarter galleries - all open walks - would probably have been very similar. Also, the Monarch being a heavily decorated ship, was probably almost on a par with SR's level of ornamentation. I don't think there are any hard conclusions to be drawn here; just interesting possibilities of what might have been. Interestingly, both drawings of SR only show 15 gun pory opennings on the first deck.
  10. Hubac's Historian
    Yes, Michel's ship is indeed a masterpiece - a timber for timber re-construction of the real thing. I can relate to the end-of-year shool shuffle, as we are all quite busy with the same. Progress continues, albeit at an even slower pace. I am so looking forward to your contributions, Cedric, as I continue to watch Michel's ship rise from the stocks.
  11. Hubac's Historian
    And by all means, please continue! Cedric will soon be posting on MSW with his La Reine conversion project, and this is becoming a very fertile conversation about SR and her contemporaries.
  12. Hubac's Historian
    Your translations are perfectly clear and well understood. Although, I can empathize with the feeling that one loses the subtlety of their intended meaning when they rely on things like Google Translate to express their thoughts. I have to say, though, that GT does a pretty good job. Mostly, it is the differences in ship nomenclature that cause most of the problems; precients/wales - comme-ci, comme-ca! When it comes to new subjects, particularly French first and second marine, there are almost too many beautiful and interesting vessels to choose from. There is a modeler on the Arsenal site who has done a model of La Belle that is so extraordinary, he has opened my eyes to the possibilities of this pretty little ship.
  13. Hubac's Historian
    Your cannons look incredible! As for completing your SR, I think you will certainly get there, and that there's another ship in you, yet.
  14. Hubac's Historian
    The interior structure is quite spectacular, Michel. The framing is done in pear? Is your plan to eventually do a full masting and rigging, or will she be an admiralty style model?
  15. Hubac's Historian
    Stunning ship Michel! You should post some pics of the framing and interior bulkheads, so that everyone can get a sense for the amount of research and effort that have gone into her, so far.
  16. Hubac's Historian
    Welcome Cedric! I am sure that you will find that the knowledge and eagerness to share, here at MSW, goes quite beyond expectations. In the short time that I have been a member, here, I have learned so much from so many. It never ceases to amaze me the particular talents of others.
  17. Hubac's Historian
    Hey Dan, Sometimes I take for granted that I can just see the Michelangelo at our meetings, but I've really enjoyed reading through this log, so far. There have been a number of ingenious solutions to vexing problems. I'll be following along. She's really shaping up beautifully, Dan!
  18. Hubac's Historian
    You seem to work at a steady pace with tremendous progress in a short timeframe. How long did it take you to research and develop plans for Katherine?
  19. Hubac's Historian
    On the subject of girdling, I remember reading some time ago that there were problems with the Katherine after her launch, in terms of her handling characteristics. The inclusion of this detail, is a very nice touch, and a subject that one rarely ever considers when thinking about ship models.
  20. Hubac's Historian
    Doris, I really am so floored by what you do. As is the case with your other models that I have seen, the Royal Katherine is so cleanly worked and her lines are so fair - if I didn't know it was a model, I would swear it were the real thing springing up before our eyes. You have such a strong sense for how the architecture of these floating batteries should look. And your resourcefullness, in finding such creative ways to simulate realistic details, makes you a ship-modeling genius in my eyes. You answer one question for me and I have ten new ones. Rather than ask those questions now, though, I will do as you suggested and read through your Royal Caroline build log. The basic question your models provoke is this: with results so clean and fair, using such simple materials and tools - why build a ship-model any other way? Well, I will be watching with great fascination from here on out!
  21. Hubac's Historian
    Hi Doris, What sort of card stock do you use? Is it specialty cardboard that you might buy at an artist's supply? I was thinking I might adapt some of your technique to my model of Soleil Royal. I'll need to create new interior structural support and cambered deck beams because I am scratch-building all new decks in this, otherwise, plastic kit. My thought was that card would be easier to layout, cut and shape than styrene sheet, as an underlayment for what will ultimately be wooden strip planking. Or, would it not be advisable to glue wood strip to cardboard false decks, because of humidity fluctuations between different materials? Is that why you use plastic foils to simulate decking?
  22. Hubac's Historian
    Ken,all of your deck work looks really good. I love that there is subtle variation in color among the deck planking. I agree that painting those interior bulkheads was a sensible compromise. She's really coming along beautifully and the work is so clean and nice!
  23. Hubac's Historian
    What I need that I don't have right now is SPACE. Plastic models lend themselves pretty well to construction on the kitchen table, and then being tucked away in their custom made build-box until the next session; there's no putting away of machinery, just some simple hand tools and maybe a Dremel to deal with. Plus, I'd really like my scratch-build to be in a larger scale than 1/100. It takes a special talent to build 17th C. Men-O-War in small scales, and not everyone can be Donald McNary or Lloyd McCaffery. So, again, display space is at a premium in our small apartment. At some point in the actual build, I'll have to give away my first SR . The other issue is that, while I'm quite a competent woodworker, I'll still have to learn the art of framing a few smaller wooden models before I take on something immense like SR. Some day... Some day!
  24. Hubac's Historian
    Hey Vossie! Yeah, that was always my idea; that once I had finished with a plan, I'd publish it on the site for anyone to use, improve upon, etc. Michel, I'm glad you are joining the discussion. There are many, here, who have expressed their gratitude for your contributions to my research, so far, and I am certainly not least among them. I am in agreement with you, Michel, on all of the points that you are making, regarding the frieze space between the knees of the head, the size of the middle deck gun ports, and the alignment of the arched main deck ports. These are all inaccuracies of the Heller kit. And I will ask you to take the long view of what I am doing now, as it relates to what I plan to do further into the future; this project is providing me with a sound research base to eventually build an architecturally sound, fully scratch-built model of SR. Some day, I will have the space and resources to make a really good wooden, framed model of the ship, and when that day comes, all of the resources and information you (and Mr. Lemineur, Mr. Peters and Cedric, among others) have shared with me, will come more fully to fruition. In the meantime, though, my objective is to make a much better model of the Heller kit than the kit, alone, provides for. I am aware of the problems that you mention, however, there does come a point where one goes beyond kit-bashing to making a fully scratch-built model. If, for example, I am going to completely rebuild the bowsprit and headrails and carve a new figurehead, and scratch-build everything above the second battery, well then, I might as well draw up a correct hull plan snd make the entire thing from scratch. At this time, though and for a variety of reasons, I am just not ready to go that route. I'm capable of it, but not ready. And so, with this model project, there are certain lengths I am willing to go to add a detail, and/or modify some aspect of the kit to try and correct some of its inherent flaws, and there are other things about the kit that I can look past, right now; like the too small second battery ports, or the run of the main deck ports, or that the space for the bow frieze tapers. That being said, I am always glad for the lesson in what should be because that is knowledge that will be applied to future models. Dan, the f'ocsle deck is armed with three guns, each side, and they are just out of view in the Berain and Compardel drawings. I am 99% certain, now, that my reduced scale for the horsehead provides enough clearance for the cathead without having to alter anything about the position of the cathead. the greatest value to me, right now, of this much clearer Berain drawing of the bow is that I can now draw a much improved bow angel. I'll trace this, instead, and scale it to fit. As always, thank you to everyone who stops by, weighs in, and for those likes. Even, and perhaps especially, if you don't agree with what I am doing - I am interested to hear what you have you say. All the best - Marc
  25. Hubac's Historian
    Hi Doris, I've wanted to witness your process for some time! I am so excited to see you build the Katherine, and I will definitely be following along. Your work is really exceptional! Regards, Marc

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