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Hubac's Historian

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  1. Hubac's Historian
    Dan, to answer your question as to whether the decks of the QGs would really be so steep, as to present problems for the Admiral and the Captain: well, you know the old saying about sxxt flowing downhill! To be honest, your perceptive eye has brought light to an interesting conversation about what the artist's actual perspective may have been. Certainly, the issues of the partially covered gun ports, and the varied dolphins, and the tapering lower gallery windows would all seem to be victims of parallax. That makes sense. However, the overwhelming perspective, as you mention, is that of being athwartship. And that is not consistent with parallax. I was aware that the lower gallery ports tapered in size. My thought was that I would have to work on my tracing of the QG from the top down, and establish parallel guides for the main deck open-walk railing, as well as, the middle deck windows beneath them. The distortion tool you are using here, on the other hand, is a really fascinating thing. I'll have to see whether GIMP has something like that in its arsenal because I agree that perspective of the QGs can be improved a bit, as the relate to the sheer of the Heller kit. I suspect, though, that these variances are merely the result of un-intended artistic inaccuracies. Although our eye can perceive that the windows taper, for example, the actual difference in window height is really quite small, and I think the natural product of a handmade portrait. Nevertheless, it is still something that needs to be corrected because, in three-dimensions, that discrepancy will really become apparent. I am pretty locked in to the kit sheer-line, however, this is another of the kit's details that I really like; it's a nice, gentle curve. The aspect of the Heller kit that bothered me, in this area, was the absence of the ornamental sheer cap dolphin because it appeared too stepped and without transition.
  2. Hubac's Historian
    Monamy is one who has done a pair of perspective portraits of SR, just as the fireship is closing in at La Hogue. In one portrait, you can see the stern quarters. In the other, you can see the bow. I bought a print of the stern quarters painting that is large enough to discern some detail. He shows here with lighter blue upper bulwarks, closed quarters, and the suggestion of an upper bulwark frieze. Bakhuizen has a portrait if her at the Battle of Barfleur, which is more confusing than insructive (two rows of stern windows, instead of three), but with a darker blue upper bulwark and a frieze seemingly composed of fleur-de-lis, only. Nevertheless, it is a dramatic and spectacular portrait of the ship by someone who likely would have seen her with his own eyes.
  3. Hubac's Historian
    EJ, you make some excellent points about 17th C. Marine portraiture. For all of the reasons you mention, for me, the gold standard remains the Van de Velde family for their accuracy. Given that the elder VDV was painting and drawing grisailles as early as the 1650s, and perhaps earlier, there is a strong apparent correlation between his drawings and what was discovered through the restoration of the Vasa. He was not exaggerating anything, it seems. their success, as marine chronicalers, has to do with the numerous detailed studies of ships they made, at their moorings, as well as their penchant for recording the composition of a sea battle as it was happening. The father and sons would be aboard a small, nimble craft, on the periphery of the engagement roughing in the principal ships, in their respective lines of battle. This was the 17th centry corrolary to the war-time photographer. So, in thinking about what a mid-to-late 17th C. Ship should look like, one really can't go wrong using them as the basis for their research, and that is what I am doing with this project. While there is no coherent portrait of SR1, I can draw conclusions about mid-seventeenth century French practice through the VDV drawings of SR's contemporaries. I can't say definitely, whether such and such detail was a feature of the ship, but I can in the parlance of the courts, argue that there exists a 'preponderance of evidence' to suggest that such a detail would be present on a first-rate of this period. Other good contemporary marine artists to look at include Peter Monamy, Ludolf Bakhuizen, Adrien Van Diest, and Abraham Storck, among others. But much useful detail can be gained from artist's compositions that lack proper ship perspective. For example, Cedric is using, in part, a detsiled sketch of La Reyne's stern by Mr. Desclouszeaux in order to give shape to the fuzzy ornamental details of the VDV drawings that are really the basis of his build. I am always torn because, really, I have enough layout information to really make a start of it right now. The only thing I really need to still work out is the mast sizes, steps, top sizes, channel and shroud locations. However, time spend building is time taken away from drawing, and I have already learned, with the help of you guys, that certain details of my design really should be re-worked. I am really appreciative for those contributions. As my first woodworking mentor, David Morton, often used to say: in making something, anything, the first goal in planning is to avoid what he referred to as "negative pre-determinants." In other words, don't do something early that locks you in, or makes it difficult or even impossible to do something you would prefer to do later. Understand your project fully. Plan it's fabrication according to all the steps involved. Check your plans over and again. Most importantly - remain engaged throughout the long arduous process of making something that is worthwhile.
  4. Hubac's Historian
    I have also read through that FineScale build log. It has to be said, though, that it could have been many pages shorter if certain participants in that discussion could have restrained themselves from reminding everyone just how aweful they found the kit to be. To be fair, I am sure some feel MY log could be many pages shorter, if I'd just get busy building something! There certainly was a lot of usefull information there, though. Hopefully, I can push that conversation forward a little, with this model.
  5. Hubac's Historian
    Thank you, Dan! Yes, with this Berain tracing layer, in place, the full parameters of my proposed model are now in place. I realized, after posting, that I probably should have used GIMP's eraser tool to eliminate the Berain sheer cap because it is so exagerated, and its presence muddles my intent. The only aspects of this drawing that I will incorporate into my own are the quarter gallery, the quarter piece, Africa, and the caryatid figure supportig her. What's interesting to me about the sheer line, as it is represented in Berain's drawing, is that to some degree it must represent the more pronounced sheer line that would have been a feature of ships of the First Marine. However, I do not think it is an accurate representation of what the first SR's sheer line would have looked like. Consider first, that I had to rotate the drawing, significantly, in order for the sheer of the QG to align with the kit's degree of sheer - which is much less pronounced. Having done that, the Berain sheer still rises at a steep angle from my own! The second issue with the Berain drawing that I do not think can be taken too literally is the fact that the Berain sheer is shown to be very straight and stiff looking, when in actual practice almost every battle ship sheer line, up to and including the IOWA class, is a fair curve. In reality, SR1's sheer line was almost certainly more pronounced than shown in the Heller kit, but probably not radically so, ala the Vasa. The truth, I think, lies somewhere between what I feel must be a VDV quality portrait of the Monarch of 1668 (which I have posted many times), and the VDV portraits of La Reyne, where the wale strakes are shown to rise more steeply. It is my belief that Berain, Puget and other designers of ship ornamentation applied what were intended to be, variously accurate representations of the ship's decor (Berain more so than Puget) to a sort of boiler plate template of a ship's side - which I don't think was ever intended to be taken too literally as an accurate presentation of naval architecture; the perspective of the hull in these drawings always seems approximate and flawed to me.
  6. Hubac's Historian
    So, with the frieze more or less worked out, I decided to focus on tracing in the quarter galleries. As you know, I already had a partial tracing layer that was my hand-drawing onto a scale area plan of the ship. The more I studied what I had drawn, however, I realized that the quarter gallery levels were nowhere in correspondence with the stern balconies and windows. On the main deck level, in particular, where I intend for the stern balcony to wrap to an open walk on the quarters - there were serious alignment issues. In the time since I did that hand drawing though, two things have happened. I located a really high-resolution image of the Berain black and white drawing, and I have learned to use GIMP's scaling and rotation tools to better align layers and path objects. My first approach was to import the image, and cut the QG out with GIMP's scissor tool, with smart edge recognition. The tool's ability to find an edge depends upon the degree of contrast, and despite what seem to be pretty clear lines, the tool still did a poor job of finding the true edge of the QG. Next, I simply rotated and scaled the Berain drawing so that it corresponded very nearly exactly with the space that I had made available. First, I scaled while maintaining the aspect ratio, but then I scaled the height and width separately until the levels of the QG corresponded almost exactly with the levels that I had established for my stern template. There are three pairs of ruler guide lines that correspond with the upper and lower edges of each stern balcony. They are close enough, now, that I can later draw the stern to exactly correspond with what I trace for the QG, and I think I will still be able to recycle the kit's stern windows from the existing plate. This solves a number of perspective problems for me. My hand drawing of Africa and the quarter piece supporting the side stern lantern was decent, but my tracings will be much improved by using the original drawing as a tracing layer and then scaling the height and width of the quarter piece to drop far enough below the sheer rail, so that I can draw in the mount for the side stern lantern. This also means that I can abandon the "filler" ornaments and mouldings that I had previously drawn in, above and below the middle deck QG windows. The other revelation was that I probably wouldn't have to move the lower deck, aft-most port, 1/4" forward; I could probably get away with only an 1/8" adjustment. Visible now is a second octagonal port that I am experimenting with. Whenever I figure out how to unlock the path groupings that I made for each gunport type, I will then straighten the main deck ports so that they are vertical, and perhaps eliminate the round port on the poop deck.
  7. Hubac's Historian
    Ken, your planking job really came out beautifully, and all of your trim work is clean and precise. I had a feeling when this all started, that you would produce a first-rate model of a first-rate ship, and you have not disappointed in the least. The stern looks daunting, but I am confident that you will deliver more results that we can all marvel at. I liked, by the way, your idea to tuck the plank transition beneath the lower wale belt. Paint or no paint - I think it will look great either way.
  8. Hubac's Historian
    If you really want to lose your mind - go read through her royal Caroline build!
  9. Hubac's Historian
    Doris - as ever, your talent shines through with a capital T! Is there a wait list, among your friends, to have their likeness modeled and placed somewhere on the ship? That is such a wonderful and personal touch that must make the experience of sharing your models that much more rewarding. If I ever get to know you well enough that you would include me on one of your ships, I hope that you will give my likeness a full hair restoration!
  10. Hubac's Historian
    Hello Marc!, Maybe it was just a matter of time because the truly crazy SR fanatics seem to have a way of finding each other! First things first; please make no apologies for any translation errors. I trust Google Translate to express my thoughts quite completely on the LaRoyal Modelisme site, and in my correspondences with Michel and other French speakers, but I know that the nuances of whatever I am trying to say are not quite coming across. But that's okay. Eventually, we work it out. As for your English, you are expressing yourself beautifully, so there are no worries there. I am very honored that you have come to visit my build page. As a matter of fact, it was the Albert Brenet painting of the Battle of Beveziers that you use as your avatar, which caught my eye earlier last year and was, perhaps, the single biggest epiphany for me; though it is a 20th century painting, I felt the artist correctly interpreted so much about the relationship of the stern to the quarter galleries, the boutielles. I often talk about your model for it's superb execution, and my Pinterest page (under the "French Vaisseaux" tab) has quite a number of pictures of your Soleil Royal, which I have captioned in reference to your work. Your hull is so clean and elegant and your carving skills are certainly up to the task. Your construction method for building up the "Royal Balsa" is one that I very much admire. For a number of years now, I have been quietly watching both your and Michel's respective builds, and am fascinated by the differing choices you each have made, while using essentially the same hull form. Michel's model is a staggering work of thorough attention to detail, and I believe that his choice of ornamentation can not fail to deliver a harmonious composition of great beauty. It is the direction that you have chosen, though, that more closely aligns with my conception of the Berain/Compardel renderings of the ship. I have my idea about how the middle deck stern gallery will resolve itself into the middle deck quarter gallery, but I am watching eagerly to see what you have in mind, there. To answer your question, Marc, I view this build as an opportunity to test out the larger concepts of my idea about the ship. As I have said elsewhere, in this build log, I actively seek as much truth as I can from the true scholars like Michel, Mr. Lemineur, Mr. Delacroix and yourself because I will channel all of that into a full scratch-build some day. In the meantime, I can be persuaded on various details to go the extra mile. That is the case with this recent discussion of the main deck ports. I can fix that, and I will because as you point out, it only makes sense for the port frames to align with the ship's frames. Now, you raise an interesting subject of essentially reversing the shape of the quarter deck gun ports, the round ports, with the arched deck ports of the main deck. Visually, this is a striking departure between what is shown in the Berain drawing and what I have proposed, thus far. In all honesty, this is one of those issues that I would prefer to tackle in the full-scratch model of SR. On the other hand, though, I may yet convert the top-most round port of the poop to an octagonal port that matches the one that I have sketched in. I don't think, though, that I will raise the sheer line, itself, as you have sketched in. For this build, something like that would tip the scales toward abandoning the plastic model altogether and just drawing as thoroughly accurate a set of plans as I can for the scratch-build. On the other hand, the possibility of modifying the quarter deck armament so that there are five ports, instead of four, is something that I will definitely have to think about. So, you see Marc, that I will be producing a hybrid of sorts. The true Arsenal modelers will see it, and no matter how well it is crafted, they will see the inherent flaws in it. And that is good and well, really, because it sparks conversation about this puzzle of a ship that we are all grappling with. On another build log for a French 74 (based largely on Boudriot's work), I was reading the other day a discussion about the joining and shaping of the futtock floor timbers to the keel. Mr. Delacroix was making a point about the fact that the renderings actually reflected a much earlier shaping that is more consistent with the seventeenth than the eighteenth century. Now, if not for the expansive knowledge of people like Mr. Delecroix, how else would the average modeler understand the nuances of what they are looking at in their own research? I make a point though, of being clear that this model I am making is quite flawed and not to be taken as a definitive statement about period practice, but more an impressionist and artistic interpretation that makes reasonable connections to known practice. It is, in other words, an educated guess. If you haven't done already, I hope you will also acquaint yourself with Cedric's conversion of the Heller kit into La Reyne. His build can be found here on MSW, as well as on the La Royal site. The work he is doing to re-configure the armament and the sheer of the gun decks, themselves, is truly fascinating. I have read through large portions of your second build log and have learned quite a bit from the lively discussion on your site. You can be sure that I will continue to follow your progress with great interest, and I look forward to whatever else you have to say on the subject. Regards, Marc
  11. Hubac's Historian
    Take your time, man - I'll stick around no matter what.
  12. Hubac's Historian
    And, yes, I think we're all a little nuts. But I'd check myself into this asylum any day!
  13. Hubac's Historian
    To answer the question, though, I stop at the point where I am required to scrap the lower hull or the upper bulwarks. I'm just not set up, at home to create a hull form, and not having to do so is still an enormous time saver for me. most of the other structural elements will he made from scratch, but I will always look to recycle what I can. I have been playing with ideas to re-use the kit stern windows and add the missing sixth window I need, for example, by simply resin-casting an extra stern plate - once I've figured out this whole casting process. I suspect that the existing camber of the five windows can simply be supplemented by an extra casting of the middle (5th window) on the stock plate. A simple test with a photocopier will tell me whether or not this is feasible. It would be a shame not to use these beautifully cast windows that Heller did such a nice job of detailing. I would have to heat-bend my window banks to accomodate the new round-up of the stern, but I think it is doable. What will be fun, for me, is watching the evolution of Cedric's build for La Reyne because he is proposing to take his project to places where I fear to tread. I think his will be the ultimate SR kit-bash of all-time, and having him here, simultaneously, is an enormous motivator for me.
  14. Hubac's Historian
    Thank you, EJ, Dan and Cedric for your thoughtful and well-reasoned responses to the problem at hand. I have to say that I am leaning toward correcting that particular flaw because I think it will bother me, down the road, especially since I will have made a mold to cast the port enhancements. Two molds, actually, because the lower enhancement is mounted separately to the wales. If I'm going to go to that degree of trouble, I might as well make these ports all they can be. Speaking to your last post, EJ, I do have a pretty good idea about where I will draw the line, but it is a slippery slope, man! The thing about this build is that 98% of what I'm proposing, I've never actually attempted before. Prior to this, all of my model making has been strictly by the numbers, as seen on the box. With this build, though, I'll be learning to make moulds for resin castings, how to do a realistic, weathered paint job, how to do a realistic waterline model in a gel sea, how to build up ornament with a variety of media, including styrene sheet and extrusions, wire, polymer clay and anything else I dig up that I think will produce a good scale effect. The whole thing about making bow and stern extension castings of the existing hull parts so that I can make the ship wider and longer may all just add up to a spectacular fail. I think it will work though. I expect to make a few castings that I have to throw away. But, ultimately, I think I will find a way to make it work and produce a good result. It is my experience with designing and making Art Nouveau furniture that has given me confidence and emboldened me to play with ideas, even when the techniques involved are, initially, beyond my skill set. Following are a pair of door pulls I made for a small wall cupboard, a few years ago. They are direct copies of a well-known pattern by the Danish silversmith Georg Jensen. My father owns a pair of cuff links in this pattern, and I realized one day, when I couldn't find pull hardware that fit the style and ornamental theme of the cabinet, that this Jensen pattern was perfect for adapting to a recessed pull: This was the first of two pulls. It measures about 2 1/2" in diameter, and is carved from bubinga. When I carved this first one, I was stationed for two weeks on our "emergency truck". Driving between jobs, through the somewhat paved streets of our outer boroughs, and sitting in the passenger seat of a bouncy old cargo van - I carved this first pull using a small assortment of knives and a few gouges, with the work double-stuck to a square of masonite. That was nothing more than white-knuckle determination and patience. Afterwards, I felt that if I could do that, I could probably do anything I set my mind to. the following cornice frieze, for the same cabinet, was carved on a table in my home and it seemed to take FOREVER. But I was committed to the process, and managed a layered relief in what is only a shy 3/33": This project with SR is right in line wih the cabinet or any of the other ornamental things I've made. Once I have a clear enough idea that I can draw something, I have confidence that I can make it happen. Eventually, and through trial and error. For me, the process of making something has become almost as exciting as the result. Almost every night I try to do something. Last night, I watched a video of Doris applying medium density cyano to a small sheet of acetate for her Royal Caroline lanterns. She had such an ingenious method and technique for applying the glue exactly where needed, without making any mess at all. The night before, I was drawing in these small mouldings for the cap rail stiles, which I sometimes see on the Arsenal models; the effect is of a framed, recessed panel of ebony, on each protruding rail frame, just beneath the rail itself. It's a dynomite looking detail, but for me it also serves the purpose of visually shortening these rail timbers, which I think the Heller kit has moulded out of scale. They are too tall. Small steps. Incremental progress, eventually adding up to a thing. I spent almost 2 years on that cabinet. I expect to spend anywhere from 3-5, actually building this SR. It's all process, for me, baby!
  15. Hubac's Historian
    Cedric, I remember well all of the filing and filling of injection mould cavities and sprues on my first SR. I am also mindfull of the fact that these kit bullwarks are too thin. Just as I created the impression of depth on the lower port opennings, I may "plank" the interior surfaces of these bulwarks to improve their detail and sense of heft.
  16. Hubac's Historian
    The issue I can see with plumbing the legs only (assuming, also, that you are going to try and preserve the sill) is that you will have to do a fair amount of finessing to join your new moulding stiles to the remaining arched header, and you will have quite a bit of tricky work in the corners, where the stiles meet the sill. If the molding around the port were a simple, flat raised molding - that would be relatively easy to add to and subtract from. Unfortunately, it is not: in cross-section, it is an astragal with thin flat edges and a half-round center. Even if you go that route of plumbing the sides and rejoining with the sill and header - at best you are left with a parallellogram shaped port. If it's to be done at all, I think it is better to recreate the raised port frame altogether with the upper port enhancement attached. Another incentive for doing this is the fact that the aft-most port on the main deck battery is overlayed by the kit quarter gallery, such that the port moulding is cast into the quarter gallery plate and not the upper bulwark, itself. because the new quarter galleries I am making land just aft of this port openning, I would have had to construct a framework anyway. The existing frames can't simply be excised from the QG plate because the carry the same coved profile as the QG plate, as it fares inboard back to the hull. The idea of 3-D printing has some appeal. Thanks to Vossiewulf, I now have some idea what the 3-D modeling component that something like that entails. But I'm not sure about taking that on. That seems like steep learning curve stuff. In any case, there is time yet to think on this.
  17. Hubac's Historian
    I have to make the port enhancment mould, anyway, so maybe...
  18. Hubac's Historian
    Hi Dan, In turning it over, in my mind, I suppose the easiest way to correct this error and produce a seamless result would be to scrape away the raised port framework around each port. Then, make a mold for new resin castings that match the profile of what you just scraped away, but with the upper port enhancement moulded in (instead of it being a separate, more fragile casting). Then you could re-position the new frames so that they are vertical over the old skewed opennings, and glue them in place. It seems likely that the necessary adjustment is so small that one could simply backfill any resulting voids with Squadron putty, and then file flush with the port openning. I'm not sure it bothers me enough to go to the effort (which is considerable), but then Dan - you have planted a seed, and you know how that goes!
  19. Hubac's Historian
    Cedric - you are off and running now! I'm so glad to see the project posted here, now, as well as LaRoyal. What you are doing presents really a number of interesting challenges, so I am really looking forward to following along.
  20. Hubac's Historian
    And to answer your question: Between the lower wales, these are scupper ports. You can sometimes see, in VDV portraits, these sleave or sock-like attachments on the lowest scupper ports. I'm pretty sure that the Batavia replica, in Lelystad, carries them. My presumption is that these sleaves prevent in-flow of water on the lowest battery, in rough and rolling seas. I have never seen them above the lowest deck. It seems to me that Fimo is an ideal medium for creating these.
  21. Hubac's Historian
    Thank you, Cedric! The frieze will be built up. First, I will tack-glue this layout to a sheet of .020 styrene, so that I can cut out the lattice-grid. That grid will then be cut down into manageable segments - perhaps on mitered corners, where one would expect to see joints - and then glued to the upper bulwark pieces that have been scraped free of the stock ribbon strakes and ornaments that would interfere with the new layout. I'm thinking about bending annealed wire to the shapes of the frieze layout, and then glueing a shaped wire segment to the centerline of all of the frieze lattice segments. This will give some shape and dimension to the lattice and crevices for the mild distress wash to collect. the fleur-de-lis, shells, folliate diamonds and lattice scrolls are just big enough that I can carve masters and make uniform resin castings of them. There are so many of each and they must be consistent for the finished effect to look as intended. Each casting will have it's back sanded flat and then glued to the frieze, just as you might decorate a Christmas tree. The lattice scrolls will probably have to be cut into the frieze lattice because they appear half-on and half-off the lattice. Color-wise, lately, I'm thinking that I might go with a lighter blue for the upper bulwark pieces - reserving the deep ultra-marine blue for select sections of the stern and tafferal. Also, I am leaning towards painting the frieze lattice and sheer railings in yellow ochre, and using gold only for the frieze ornaments and figurative reliefs and carvings of the stern and quarters. My thought, there, is that the gold would pop more and be more visually impactfull.
  22. Hubac's Historian
    This has been quite a busy and productive holiday weekend. I have completed the ornamental frieze layout. While there are still issues with overlapping elements, generally, I am very happy with the spacing and size of the individual elements. She is starting to look like what I intend for this project. Here are a few pictures: A detail closeup that shows the added octagonal port:
  23. Hubac's Historian
    Well, when you consider that my plans are merely a scale layout for the ornamentation - I'm really not that far ahead of you. Someday, I will create a propper lines plan from the main frame, fore and aft. However, because I have no intention of re-molding the plastic hull, frame shapes are not necessary right now. I will say that I am eagerly awaiting the release of the Lemineur/Tusset monographie on Le St. Phillipe. Although this was one of the early ships of the Second Marine, I suspect that the shape of the main frame would not have differed dramatically from that of SR. I believe the main difference would be the development of the hull, aft of the mainframe, as it resolves into the stern framework. An accurate model of SR1, must incorporate the pre-1673 stern framework, just as Michel and Niko have done with their models. Bon Appetite!
  24. Hubac's Historian
    I also remember reading, somewhere, that SR was rushed into service before the re-build was complete. Not sure where I saw that either, but may have been Andrew Peters's book Ship Decoration. Cedric, how complete are you going to make your plans? I will certainly draw up to the main tops, with the shrouds in place, because I have to figure out their new positioning. I think I will also draw in the topmasts and spars because, that too will he made from scratch and I want to be sure that I get the scale of it right. Although I will also be building new decks, I don't think I will draw them - the exception will be the new deck railings, which will have some ornamental motif that needs to be worked out to scale. Please let me know if you find that passage about SR's re-fit. I'd like to see it, if possible. Despite the spotty forecast, we also had a nice day, here, in New York. I went to my daughter's school "field day" and we had a great time!
  25. Hubac's Historian
    One question I have about the amortissement: your drawing shows the detail starting at the level of those middle deck windows, in line with the open gallery rail and rising up to the sheer line. This is often how I have seen it modeled (Royal Louis 1692, the Tanneron models of L'Agreable and Le Brilliant). However, would it not make design sense - for the sake of continuity - for the amortissement to continue down to the open gallery decking? Even if only as a framework of ornamental rails and stiles?

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