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Jaager

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  1. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from druxey in Ungluing, undoing old glue, removing old glue advice   
    Denatured alcohol is ethyl alcohol.  The solvent for PVA is isopropyl alcohol, but the properties of short chain alcohols are very similar.  So it could be PVA.  Hide glue is denatured by ethyl alcohol - especially if it is hot, so it could be a hide glue.
  2. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Ungluing, undoing old glue, removing old glue advice   
    Denatured alcohol is ethyl alcohol.  The solvent for PVA is isopropyl alcohol, but the properties of short chain alcohols are very similar.  So it could be PVA.  Hide glue is denatured by ethyl alcohol - especially if it is hot, so it could be a hide glue.
  3. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from EricWilliamMarshall in Is there a trick to making deadeyes?   
    I see one problem with using a standard dowel as starting stock:  the grain.  The face of the deadeye will be end grain.  The orientation needs to be 90 degrees to that of a dowel.  The length of stock to be turned would be 6-12 inches long. It would depend on the width of the starting lumber board.  The starting lathe stock would then be square in cross section. 
     
    I wonder if a tube with an inside diameter that is that of the deadeye could be turned into a hole saw and deadeyes cut from a sheet of wood that is the thickness.  The tool used would then be a drill press.  A jig could be made to position  the 3 holes for the rope and these holes drilled in the sheet along with an orienting site for the hole saw,  so that the holes would be already placed before hole saw was used to remove the plug that is the deadeye.  Another jig could use the 3 holes to center the deadeye and the lathe used to shape the groove for the shroud. 
  4. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from catopower in Is there a trick to making deadeyes?   
    I see one problem with using a standard dowel as starting stock:  the grain.  The face of the deadeye will be end grain.  The orientation needs to be 90 degrees to that of a dowel.  The length of stock to be turned would be 6-12 inches long. It would depend on the width of the starting lumber board.  The starting lathe stock would then be square in cross section. 
     
    I wonder if a tube with an inside diameter that is that of the deadeye could be turned into a hole saw and deadeyes cut from a sheet of wood that is the thickness.  The tool used would then be a drill press.  A jig could be made to position  the 3 holes for the rope and these holes drilled in the sheet along with an orienting site for the hole saw,  so that the holes would be already placed before hole saw was used to remove the plug that is the deadeye.  Another jig could use the 3 holes to center the deadeye and the lathe used to shape the groove for the shroud. 
  5. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Bob Cleek in Scale bright work   
    A stain product is actually a semi transparent paint.  Cherry stain would be used on something like Yellow Poplar,  Using a dye on Cherry is gilding a Lilly.  Using a stain is turning a star into something mundane.
    If you want a finish with a reverse gear, consider shellac.  Orange shellac will darken it now without obscuring it.  But, as Marks writes, Black Cherry darkens over time and in few years may be darker than you intended.  Super blonde will not darken it much.  There is a clearer version that is about twice as expensive.  The more layers, the more depth.  If it is too shiny a light buffing with very very fine steel wool with make it satin.   Just do not get it wet.  I am of a mind to use a final layer of Renaissance Wax Polish- but that is just a theory now.
  6. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from RichardG in Is there a trick to making deadeyes?   
    I see one problem with using a standard dowel as starting stock:  the grain.  The face of the deadeye will be end grain.  The orientation needs to be 90 degrees to that of a dowel.  The length of stock to be turned would be 6-12 inches long. It would depend on the width of the starting lumber board.  The starting lathe stock would then be square in cross section. 
     
    I wonder if a tube with an inside diameter that is that of the deadeye could be turned into a hole saw and deadeyes cut from a sheet of wood that is the thickness.  The tool used would then be a drill press.  A jig could be made to position  the 3 holes for the rope and these holes drilled in the sheet along with an orienting site for the hole saw,  so that the holes would be already placed before hole saw was used to remove the plug that is the deadeye.  Another jig could use the 3 holes to center the deadeye and the lathe used to shape the groove for the shroud. 
  7. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Is there a trick to making deadeyes?   
    I see one problem with using a standard dowel as starting stock:  the grain.  The face of the deadeye will be end grain.  The orientation needs to be 90 degrees to that of a dowel.  The length of stock to be turned would be 6-12 inches long. It would depend on the width of the starting lumber board.  The starting lathe stock would then be square in cross section. 
     
    I wonder if a tube with an inside diameter that is that of the deadeye could be turned into a hole saw and deadeyes cut from a sheet of wood that is the thickness.  The tool used would then be a drill press.  A jig could be made to position  the 3 holes for the rope and these holes drilled in the sheet along with an orienting site for the hole saw,  so that the holes would be already placed before hole saw was used to remove the plug that is the deadeye.  Another jig could use the 3 holes to center the deadeye and the lathe used to shape the groove for the shroud. 
  8. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Deck items   
    The harpoons needed tending to.  Not needing the level and type of work usually done by a blacksmith a smaller anvil would do.  The coopering needed to assemble the barrels to hold the oil was also a function.
  9. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Bob Cleek in How to straighten a Bent keel   
    I build POF and am a bit biased on terminology.
    As a side note,  what you ( and most everybody) call bulkheads are actually molds.  Subs have bulkheads,  some steel ships have bulkheads, Chinese wooden ships have bulkheads.  Western wooden ships did not have bulkheads.  They certainly are not frames.   What you (and everyone else) call the keel is actually a central support spine.
    I have never built POB, so this is theory.  How I would try to rectify this:
    1.  This curve is the natural shape that your piece of plywood seeks.  Anything that you do only to it  (bend it back with steam or heat) is likely to be a temporary fix. It will still "want" to bend.  You can clamp it to a baseboard and use the planking applied while clamped to hold the shape.  But when removed an twist force will be on the glue joints of the molds and inside planking - forever.  It may or may not hold. 
    2.  If the molds have not been glued,  there is a stronger fix.  Scab a long streamer on each side of the central spine.
    Remove the black area on each mold.  Get a couple of long sticks of straight hardwood ( 1/4" x 1/4"  or 1/4" x 1/2" or substantial size ).   Drill holes thru the sticks and central spine all along the length.  Use threaded bolts, washers and nuts to fix the sticks and central spine together.  Make sure this assembly is dead straight.  Remove the assembly.  Glue the molds to the central spine.  Slide the sticks thru the holes along the length and glue the sticks to the spine.  Check to make sure it is still dead straight.  The bolts can be removed and bamboo skewers glued thru the holes.  You just need a drill bit that is the diameter of the skewers.
     
    3.  The holes in the molds remove some of the bonding surface between them and the spine.  Short pieces of SQUARE wood can be used to reinforce the bond.  Eight pieces per molds.  Just do not block the path of the straightener sticks.
     
    4.  Rather than Balsa, consider using Pine to fill the outer planking edge between the molds.   Assuming that you do not have power tools,  a hand fret saw. planes, knives and sanding block will do.  Select Pine in 1" thickness is easily found. There may also be thinner stock of solid Pine.   Cut out the shapes, glue up the layers to fit between the molds, and do as much shaping as you can before fixing them between the molds.  You are unlikely to be lucky enough that a sum one 1" layers will be a tight fit between the molds.  The outer surface does not need to be continuous.  Cardboard or what ever is to hand can be fitted between a layer to make up the difference.  It does not need to reach the outer shaped surface.  You just want the unit to be a push fit between the molds.
  10. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Scale bright work   
    A stain product is actually a semi transparent paint.  Cherry stain would be used on something like Yellow Poplar,  Using a dye on Cherry is gilding a Lilly.  Using a stain is turning a star into something mundane.
    If you want a finish with a reverse gear, consider shellac.  Orange shellac will darken it now without obscuring it.  But, as Marks writes, Black Cherry darkens over time and in few years may be darker than you intended.  Super blonde will not darken it much.  There is a clearer version that is about twice as expensive.  The more layers, the more depth.  If it is too shiny a light buffing with very very fine steel wool with make it satin.   Just do not get it wet.  I am of a mind to use a final layer of Renaissance Wax Polish- but that is just a theory now.
  11. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Gregory in Scale bright work   
    A stain product is actually a semi transparent paint.  Cherry stain would be used on something like Yellow Poplar,  Using a dye on Cherry is gilding a Lilly.  Using a stain is turning a star into something mundane.
    If you want a finish with a reverse gear, consider shellac.  Orange shellac will darken it now without obscuring it.  But, as Marks writes, Black Cherry darkens over time and in few years may be darker than you intended.  Super blonde will not darken it much.  There is a clearer version that is about twice as expensive.  The more layers, the more depth.  If it is too shiny a light buffing with very very fine steel wool with make it satin.   Just do not get it wet.  I am of a mind to use a final layer of Renaissance Wax Polish- but that is just a theory now.
  12. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from gieb8688 in Katy of Norfolk by Jeff5115 - Model Shipways - first build   
    Being unforgivably pedantic,
    if that model was a kit, there is slight probability that it was POF.  Plank On Frame is a specific style of construction that attempts to mimic the way an actual hull was constructed.  It varies from stylized to being as exact as possible, depending on who the builder is.  This method is pretty much limited to scratch building.  It was more likely POB - Plank On Bulkhead.  There are some unscrupulous kit makers, who advertise POB as being POF.  If they cheat on this, it is likely that anything they offer would be suspect.  Doing POF correctly is both labor intensive and uses a lot of wood.  I suspect that an actual POF kit would be sorta expensive, even for a brig.
     
    My understanding is that the first POB kits were from Italy and the component that they termed "bulkhead" is actually a mold and not a part of an actual western built wooden vessel hull.  It has continued on as the description used to define the method.  Actual bulkheads were a feature of Chinese built wooden hulls, and not western.  In Chinese ships, real bulkheads would not have been close enough together to adequately determine the shape of a hull without some additions between them.  As it is, most POB molds are not spaced at close enough intervals to support a satisfactory shape for a hull.  The common fix is a double layer of planking.
     
    Now, about your Katy build,
     
    congratulations on an excellent choice for a first build - both as an attractive subject - and as something not likely to overwhelm
     
    Shellac is an excellent choice as a primer for most finish material.  Diluted 1:1 (50%) for the first coat. 100% for the second.
     
    Before you do that, there are a couple of riffs you might consider.
    After you add the keel, stem and sternpost, you could plank the hull with thin veneer.
    You do not list your geographical location,  but for the US  the effective choices would be Hard Maple,  Black Cherry,  Birch,  Beech.  (Straight grain, not figured, tight, closed grain, no evident pores)
    A thin veneer requires no special tools other than a steel straight edge and a sharp #11 knife blade.  Disposable blades work,  but if you continue with this,  violin makers knives and a strop kit
     
    Bay pilot schooners did not have much of a bulwark - the Pine/Basswood of the hull above the waterway could be shaved off and a 1/8" piece of hardwood (or glued up layers of the hull planking veneer, used to add an actual scale bulwark.
     
    You removed wood that substitutes for the deck beams, so you will need a clamp strake and actual deck beams. (Doing the camber and placement of beams for hatches and masts gets you well into the sort of work that scratch building involves - just FYI)   Even if you had not hollowed the hull -  Rather than using a sheet of scored decking (Basswood) that I am guessing comes with the kit, an actual deck can be laid.  The same veneer as above (except Black Cherry) will make for an attractive deck.   I suspect that the actual decking was hard Pine  it is not near white, so Maple, Birch is close in color. 
    Rather than bopping a viewer between the eyes with stark contrast wide black caulking seams, mixing a dose of walnut dye to the Titebond that is between the deck planks would be closer to scale.
        
  13. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Edwardkenway in Katy of Norfolk by Jeff5115 - Model Shipways - first build   
    Being unforgivably pedantic,
    if that model was a kit, there is slight probability that it was POF.  Plank On Frame is a specific style of construction that attempts to mimic the way an actual hull was constructed.  It varies from stylized to being as exact as possible, depending on who the builder is.  This method is pretty much limited to scratch building.  It was more likely POB - Plank On Bulkhead.  There are some unscrupulous kit makers, who advertise POB as being POF.  If they cheat on this, it is likely that anything they offer would be suspect.  Doing POF correctly is both labor intensive and uses a lot of wood.  I suspect that an actual POF kit would be sorta expensive, even for a brig.
     
    My understanding is that the first POB kits were from Italy and the component that they termed "bulkhead" is actually a mold and not a part of an actual western built wooden vessel hull.  It has continued on as the description used to define the method.  Actual bulkheads were a feature of Chinese built wooden hulls, and not western.  In Chinese ships, real bulkheads would not have been close enough together to adequately determine the shape of a hull without some additions between them.  As it is, most POB molds are not spaced at close enough intervals to support a satisfactory shape for a hull.  The common fix is a double layer of planking.
     
    Now, about your Katy build,
     
    congratulations on an excellent choice for a first build - both as an attractive subject - and as something not likely to overwhelm
     
    Shellac is an excellent choice as a primer for most finish material.  Diluted 1:1 (50%) for the first coat. 100% for the second.
     
    Before you do that, there are a couple of riffs you might consider.
    After you add the keel, stem and sternpost, you could plank the hull with thin veneer.
    You do not list your geographical location,  but for the US  the effective choices would be Hard Maple,  Black Cherry,  Birch,  Beech.  (Straight grain, not figured, tight, closed grain, no evident pores)
    A thin veneer requires no special tools other than a steel straight edge and a sharp #11 knife blade.  Disposable blades work,  but if you continue with this,  violin makers knives and a strop kit
     
    Bay pilot schooners did not have much of a bulwark - the Pine/Basswood of the hull above the waterway could be shaved off and a 1/8" piece of hardwood (or glued up layers of the hull planking veneer, used to add an actual scale bulwark.
     
    You removed wood that substitutes for the deck beams, so you will need a clamp strake and actual deck beams. (Doing the camber and placement of beams for hatches and masts gets you well into the sort of work that scratch building involves - just FYI)   Even if you had not hollowed the hull -  Rather than using a sheet of scored decking (Basswood) that I am guessing comes with the kit, an actual deck can be laid.  The same veneer as above (except Black Cherry) will make for an attractive deck.   I suspect that the actual decking was hard Pine  it is not near white, so Maple, Birch is close in color. 
    Rather than bopping a viewer between the eyes with stark contrast wide black caulking seams, mixing a dose of walnut dye to the Titebond that is between the deck planks would be closer to scale.
        
  14. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Ships and ship models magazines 1931/ 1938   
    The book that I have is ~300 pages and is just Vol.1.  Sept. 1931 to Aug. 1932.  Issues #1-#12
  15. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in New Member from Brooklyn, NY   
    You are definitely in the right place.  The interests here are diversified.  Small craft are a part of it.  The Bay craft have their following. I have tried to collect those books and plans of Bay craft that have become available over the years,  even though my subjects are larger.
    Check out the NRJ back volume CD, SIS CD, Model Ship Builder CD at the store.
  16. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from JeffT in New Member from Brooklyn, NY   
    You are definitely in the right place.  The interests here are diversified.  Small craft are a part of it.  The Bay craft have their following. I have tried to collect those books and plans of Bay craft that have become available over the years,  even though my subjects are larger.
    Check out the NRJ back volume CD, SIS CD, Model Ship Builder CD at the store.
  17. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Sheerline in Garboard plank   
    If this is a double planked hull, how ever you do the runs of planking for the under layer can be messy and no harm is done.
    As a representation of how an actual garboard is placed, SpyGlass was pointing the way.
    I foresee a lot of frustration in the future with the way you have begun this.
     
    A proposition: 
      The keel is part of a vertical system/structure,  The bottom planking is part of a different semi-horizontal system.  The join of these two systems is subject conflicting stress and potential movement.  This is the rabbet.   If a garboard was bent thru its width axis - against its natural tendency - to fit,  an unnecessary additional force would be added that would reduce the effectiveness and tightness of the caulking at the rabbet.  The solution:  lay the rectangular garboard plank on the frames and push it against the keel.  Where the rabbet is a horizontal line, no spilling is necessary. Aft, this usually goes all the way to the rabbet in the sternpost.  At the fore end, the rabbet starts to curve up.  To fit the garboard, wood is removed at the edge hitting the rabbet.  he outer edge stays straight all the way. This is the defining limit for the rest of the planking at the bottom.  The wale is the other defining limit.  The whole wale is placed when the garboard is fitted.   It is the space between the garboard and the wale where the planking is subject to spilling.   For vessels larger than a boat, it is probably  best if this space is divided into  zones of 8 or so runs of planking.  a narrow batten can be used to adjust at the stem and stern to get an attractive and natural run at the border of each zone.  This reduces the effect of error creep compounding too much.
     
    I may have misremembered that the outer edge being straight being so in carvel as well as clinker planking, or maybe this as well as every clinker plank being done this way. 
     
    The actual stress and movement at the rabbet is about a floating vessel.  The effect of humidity changes and variation in ambient temp on a model is probably a couple of magnitudes less.
  18. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Garboard plank   
    If this is a double planked hull, how ever you do the runs of planking for the under layer can be messy and no harm is done.
    As a representation of how an actual garboard is placed, SpyGlass was pointing the way.
    I foresee a lot of frustration in the future with the way you have begun this.
     
    A proposition: 
      The keel is part of a vertical system/structure,  The bottom planking is part of a different semi-horizontal system.  The join of these two systems is subject conflicting stress and potential movement.  This is the rabbet.   If a garboard was bent thru its width axis - against its natural tendency - to fit,  an unnecessary additional force would be added that would reduce the effectiveness and tightness of the caulking at the rabbet.  The solution:  lay the rectangular garboard plank on the frames and push it against the keel.  Where the rabbet is a horizontal line, no spilling is necessary. Aft, this usually goes all the way to the rabbet in the sternpost.  At the fore end, the rabbet starts to curve up.  To fit the garboard, wood is removed at the edge hitting the rabbet.  he outer edge stays straight all the way. This is the defining limit for the rest of the planking at the bottom.  The wale is the other defining limit.  The whole wale is placed when the garboard is fitted.   It is the space between the garboard and the wale where the planking is subject to spilling.   For vessels larger than a boat, it is probably  best if this space is divided into  zones of 8 or so runs of planking.  a narrow batten can be used to adjust at the stem and stern to get an attractive and natural run at the border of each zone.  This reduces the effect of error creep compounding too much.
     
    I may have misremembered that the outer edge being straight being so in carvel as well as clinker planking, or maybe this as well as every clinker plank being done this way. 
     
    The actual stress and movement at the rabbet is about a floating vessel.  The effect of humidity changes and variation in ambient temp on a model is probably a couple of magnitudes less.
  19. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from EricWilliamMarshall in Is there a Beginner’s Guide to Metal Work?   
    Unless I am mis remembering
     
    PLANK ON FRAME MODELS  VOL.1 & 2 1958                               
    UNDERHILL,HAROLD A                                              
    BROWN, SON & FERGISON   
     
    He shows how to form up for soldering and removing the alignment surplus
     

    AMERICAN FISHING SCHOONERS 1825-1935, THE                        
    CHAPELLE,H I                                                     
    W W NORTON CO   NEW YORK   1973
     
    Has drawings of the actual hardware  in the appendix
     
    only guesses for a general how to.  The following are from my Amazon wish list  from recommendations here
     

    Model Building with Brass Hardcover – March 27, 2012
    by Kenneth C. Foran  
    Jewelry: Fundamentals of Metalsmithing (Jewelry Crafts) Hardcover – September 15, 1997
    by Tim Mccreight
    The Complete Metalsmith: An Illustrated Handbook Spiral-bound – December 31, 1991
    by Tim McCreight 
  20. Like
    Jaager reacted to Roger Pellett in unknown type of wood   
    Walnut, possibly burl.
  21. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from Landlubber Mike in Nail drivers   
    For brass, I drill a hole that is a snug/tight fit for the pin or a gauge or two smaller - depending.  I used a curved Kelly clamp to hold the pin.  MM has a tool: Pin Insertion Plier # 85282  that is handy,  but it is a lot useful for bamboo dowels/trunnels.  It gently holds, while a hemostat can crush bamboo - not a problem with brass.  Being able to go in straight allows for an easier aim.
    Your suspicion that nail driver/pusher is essentially worthless matches my opinion of it.
  22. Like
    Jaager reacted to Bob Cleek in Bandsaw   
    It's my impression that fences, and to some extent miter gauges, are a relatively new thing with band saws. I was taught the same as above: If the blade is wandering, you need to check tension and tracking. (The guides should not be touching the blade unless it's being pushed out of line.) 
     
    I can't claim to be an expert on bandsaws, but I can't imagine doing re-sawing on a bandsaw with anything less than a 14" bandsaw. If I were cutting slabs off of a three inch piece of wood, I'd be using my tablesaw. If I wanted to cut curves in thin stock, I'd be using my scroll saw or old "jigsaw," a Craftsman/King Seeley cast iron beast, not the modern hand-held "jigsaw." It seems that people in this thread, and others, are looking for small bandsaws, perhaps for price, or perhaps due to space considerations, but they expect the small "toys" to tackle work the standard 14" and larger bandsaws are meant to do. 
     
  23. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Lapwing 1816 Revenue Cutter   
    That's funny!    I wonder if MAE was planning a series on the history of sailing cutters in the NRJ  or in a book.  It is too bad that it did not happen.
     
    I have no experience with the waters around the British Isles or the English channel,  but over here the wind tends go from over the land and out to sea and the bottom is mostly sand.  The mountains get closer to the sea up around  Canada,  but it is a long way to big rocks down south.  Maybe the weather dictated the rig, since the guys who used these vessels could not afford to be sentimental about tradition.
  24. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in masting/rigging   
    If it is HMS Diana frigate 1793 - there are copies of the Anatomy of the Ship volume for this ship available as second hand copies.  The masting and rigging are covered, but the are bound plans.
  25. Like
    Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Planking diagram   
    Wefalck,
    What you want is very similar to texture mapping for 3DCG.   Zbrush and Mudbox are two programs that I think include texture mapping as one their modules. I think they are seriously expensive.   I was first introduced to Painter thru Painter 3D - a very old and defunct program that advertised much and delivered very little.  It was supposed to this by being able to paint directly on the 3D mesh and have that transfer to a 2D texture.  It failed.  For a complex 3D figure of an animal,  the ideal was to get a 2D texture of the skin that would wrap around the 3D figure and the area of the polygons on the 2D map be proportional to the surface area of the polygons on the 3D mesh.  I do not know about now, but back when,  the area of the unwrapped and flattened polygons had a fish eye perspective.
     
    I am thinking that planking the hull with cardboard that is the same thickness as the planking and carefully tracing each may save time, trouble, money and heart ache rather than trying to use a 3D computer program.
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