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Jaager got a reaction from Ferrus Manus in My Introduction
Some random thoughts on your project:
in 1799 three super frigates were built using the same plans as the starting point: United States, President, Constitution.
The United States started life with a round house. The first captain of each ship had some say about how their new command would be built. It was a wild hare of an idea and the resulting poor sailing quality caused the addition to be removed.
A round house is a tall deck at the stern - in the 17th century it was were the poop deck would be but a round house is a lot longer.
The United States lasted until the US Navy's base here in Norfolk was captured by Confederate forces.
The ship would have likely undergone topside cosmetic changes about every 20 years as the then current fad changed. I would not be surprised if United States did not gain an elliptical stern at some point.
Since it is a sister, the AOTS monograph for Constitution may help with masting and rigging and deck details if the era of your model is the same as the monograph's.
Plastic masts and yards at 1:96 might prove to be a bit bendy or fragile. You might give a thought to replacing them with wood. And also a thought to upgrading the kit supplied line,
@rwiederrich has some 1:96 clippers with exquisite masting and rigging - to give you something to shoot for.
USS was not part of the official name for US Navy vessels until TR decreed it early in the 20th century.
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Looking for a kit for a Co Worker
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/ca/c-06/olympia-232-enc/enc-review.html
When I did a search for USS Olympia - to make sure of the ship identity and how a ship from the Great White Fleet era could have a crewman who was close to someone still living - this link came up. A very old plastic kit seems to have been resurrected. I have no idea about its quality, but at least the actual plastic material will not have been subjected to 70 years of possible oxidation and continued polymerization to a brittle or powder covered surface.
It is a shame that the Bluejacket version was such a short run.
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Jaager got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Wood sealer/ Wood primer
You found contradictory information because this subject is more about opinion and what you are used to than it is a set formula.
It is also difficult to follow because there is zero discipline exercised with the definitions for the words.
If we could have a common agreed definition for sealer a useful one would be "a thick clear finish material that contains small solid particles whose function is to fill open pores in the wood species that have them, interact with the finish material so as to be translucent, and leave a glass smooth finish."
It is better to never use a species of wood that would need a sealer if the wood is to be clear finished.
If you are going to paint the wood, and it is an open pore species (that is being used anyway) a filler then sanded smooth will do what a sealer does.
A primer reduces the number of coats of paint needed on a raw surface. If you are painting a room with an expensive paint, a low cost primer coat may save you money. This factor is not a significant one at model scales. But multiple thin coats may serve better than one thick one.
A traditional first coat over raw wood is 50% diluted shellac. It is compatible with just about any follow on material. It is easy to apply.
Maybe not necessary, but no real downside.
For most of us, a sealer is probably best reserved for those building full size furniture.
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Jaager got a reaction from hollowneck in Problem with belaying pin location on WYOMING
Zero data, but if a pin rail on a solid mount would solve the problem and I was determined to be economical and efficient, I would give a thought to placing a pin rail at the front of the deck house.
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Wood sealer/ Wood primer
You found contradictory information because this subject is more about opinion and what you are used to than it is a set formula.
It is also difficult to follow because there is zero discipline exercised with the definitions for the words.
If we could have a common agreed definition for sealer a useful one would be "a thick clear finish material that contains small solid particles whose function is to fill open pores in the wood species that have them, interact with the finish material so as to be translucent, and leave a glass smooth finish."
It is better to never use a species of wood that would need a sealer if the wood is to be clear finished.
If you are going to paint the wood, and it is an open pore species (that is being used anyway) a filler then sanded smooth will do what a sealer does.
A primer reduces the number of coats of paint needed on a raw surface. If you are painting a room with an expensive paint, a low cost primer coat may save you money. This factor is not a significant one at model scales. But multiple thin coats may serve better than one thick one.
A traditional first coat over raw wood is 50% diluted shellac. It is compatible with just about any follow on material. It is easy to apply.
Maybe not necessary, but no real downside.
For most of us, a sealer is probably best reserved for those building full size furniture.
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Jaager got a reaction from bridgman in Wood sealer/ Wood primer
You found contradictory information because this subject is more about opinion and what you are used to than it is a set formula.
It is also difficult to follow because there is zero discipline exercised with the definitions for the words.
If we could have a common agreed definition for sealer a useful one would be "a thick clear finish material that contains small solid particles whose function is to fill open pores in the wood species that have them, interact with the finish material so as to be translucent, and leave a glass smooth finish."
It is better to never use a species of wood that would need a sealer if the wood is to be clear finished.
If you are going to paint the wood, and it is an open pore species (that is being used anyway) a filler then sanded smooth will do what a sealer does.
A primer reduces the number of coats of paint needed on a raw surface. If you are painting a room with an expensive paint, a low cost primer coat may save you money. This factor is not a significant one at model scales. But multiple thin coats may serve better than one thick one.
A traditional first coat over raw wood is 50% diluted shellac. It is compatible with just about any follow on material. It is easy to apply.
Maybe not necessary, but no real downside.
For most of us, a sealer is probably best reserved for those building full size furniture.
-
Jaager got a reaction from mikiek in Wood sealer/ Wood primer
You found contradictory information because this subject is more about opinion and what you are used to than it is a set formula.
It is also difficult to follow because there is zero discipline exercised with the definitions for the words.
If we could have a common agreed definition for sealer a useful one would be "a thick clear finish material that contains small solid particles whose function is to fill open pores in the wood species that have them, interact with the finish material so as to be translucent, and leave a glass smooth finish."
It is better to never use a species of wood that would need a sealer if the wood is to be clear finished.
If you are going to paint the wood, and it is an open pore species (that is being used anyway) a filler then sanded smooth will do what a sealer does.
A primer reduces the number of coats of paint needed on a raw surface. If you are painting a room with an expensive paint, a low cost primer coat may save you money. This factor is not a significant one at model scales. But multiple thin coats may serve better than one thick one.
A traditional first coat over raw wood is 50% diluted shellac. It is compatible with just about any follow on material. It is easy to apply.
Maybe not necessary, but no real downside.
For most of us, a sealer is probably best reserved for those building full size furniture.
-
Jaager got a reaction from TheOnlyJuan in Wood sealer/ Wood primer
You found contradictory information because this subject is more about opinion and what you are used to than it is a set formula.
It is also difficult to follow because there is zero discipline exercised with the definitions for the words.
If we could have a common agreed definition for sealer a useful one would be "a thick clear finish material that contains small solid particles whose function is to fill open pores in the wood species that have them, interact with the finish material so as to be translucent, and leave a glass smooth finish."
It is better to never use a species of wood that would need a sealer if the wood is to be clear finished.
If you are going to paint the wood, and it is an open pore species (that is being used anyway) a filler then sanded smooth will do what a sealer does.
A primer reduces the number of coats of paint needed on a raw surface. If you are painting a room with an expensive paint, a low cost primer coat may save you money. This factor is not a significant one at model scales. But multiple thin coats may serve better than one thick one.
A traditional first coat over raw wood is 50% diluted shellac. It is compatible with just about any follow on material. It is easy to apply.
Maybe not necessary, but no real downside.
For most of us, a sealer is probably best reserved for those building full size furniture.
-
Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Wood sealer/ Wood primer
You found contradictory information because this subject is more about opinion and what you are used to than it is a set formula.
It is also difficult to follow because there is zero discipline exercised with the definitions for the words.
If we could have a common agreed definition for sealer a useful one would be "a thick clear finish material that contains small solid particles whose function is to fill open pores in the wood species that have them, interact with the finish material so as to be translucent, and leave a glass smooth finish."
It is better to never use a species of wood that would need a sealer if the wood is to be clear finished.
If you are going to paint the wood, and it is an open pore species (that is being used anyway) a filler then sanded smooth will do what a sealer does.
A primer reduces the number of coats of paint needed on a raw surface. If you are painting a room with an expensive paint, a low cost primer coat may save you money. This factor is not a significant one at model scales. But multiple thin coats may serve better than one thick one.
A traditional first coat over raw wood is 50% diluted shellac. It is compatible with just about any follow on material. It is easy to apply.
Maybe not necessary, but no real downside.
For most of us, a sealer is probably best reserved for those building full size furniture.
-
Jaager got a reaction from wool132 in Wood sealer/ Wood primer
You found contradictory information because this subject is more about opinion and what you are used to than it is a set formula.
It is also difficult to follow because there is zero discipline exercised with the definitions for the words.
If we could have a common agreed definition for sealer a useful one would be "a thick clear finish material that contains small solid particles whose function is to fill open pores in the wood species that have them, interact with the finish material so as to be translucent, and leave a glass smooth finish."
It is better to never use a species of wood that would need a sealer if the wood is to be clear finished.
If you are going to paint the wood, and it is an open pore species (that is being used anyway) a filler then sanded smooth will do what a sealer does.
A primer reduces the number of coats of paint needed on a raw surface. If you are painting a room with an expensive paint, a low cost primer coat may save you money. This factor is not a significant one at model scales. But multiple thin coats may serve better than one thick one.
A traditional first coat over raw wood is 50% diluted shellac. It is compatible with just about any follow on material. It is easy to apply.
Maybe not necessary, but no real downside.
For most of us, a sealer is probably best reserved for those building full size furniture.
-
Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Looking for a kit for a Co Worker
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/ca/c-06/olympia-232-enc/enc-review.html
When I did a search for USS Olympia - to make sure of the ship identity and how a ship from the Great White Fleet era could have a crewman who was close to someone still living - this link came up. A very old plastic kit seems to have been resurrected. I have no idea about its quality, but at least the actual plastic material will not have been subjected to 70 years of possible oxidation and continued polymerization to a brittle or powder covered surface.
It is a shame that the Bluejacket version was such a short run.
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Jaager got a reaction from Hubac's Historian in Mary Day by jdbondy - 1:64 scale (3/16" to 1 foot) - Schooner
Back when wooden hulls were used as waterborne trucks and commercial cargo was involved, there was standardized insurance and insurance mandated scantlings. After WWI, that blip was a panic driven aberration, perhaps, wooden hulls seem to have gone individual customer and wild west as far as universal scantlings. My guess anyway. The addition of man made components such as plywood, metal framing(?) fiberglass, Each vessel is probably its own world as far as looking up scantlings is concerned.
That said, the physics of wood did not change after WWI. You do not provide any basic data for this vessel, or I missed it. So, from Meade 1869
Frame moulded dimensions for a vessel with a moulded breadth of 15 feet (The next column is 20 feet.)
Floor timbers sided, at least 4.75"
Top timbers sided 4"
Moulded at cutting down (outer edge of keel/keelson) 6 - 6.25"
" at middle between keel and waterline 4.5 - 5"
" at LWL 3.25 - 3.75"
" at main deck 3 - 3.25"
I use a raster based drawing program to loft and use disks that are scale diameter of the moulded scantlings at each data point. I have intermediate sizes of those diameters to shape a transition that is strong where needed and has a curve that is pleasing to the eye. A line that meets each of those circles at a tangent provides the inside moulded dimension. Being a two finger typist, I took me longer to type this than actually develop a moulded curve when lofting. I do all lofting at 1/4" : 1' so I only had to make one set of disks and keep it in a base starter file. I have a picture or two on my Renommee build.
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Lights (windows) framing material
If a thickness that is almost thin enough to read thru is needed, a very sharp plane may get you a semi thick shaving.
A knife and steel straight edge for the other dimension.
A compatible wood species would increase the probability of success. No loss to kerf, either.
You would need to research the type of plane that does this. I expect it will need a high quality plane and a whole lot of practice.
Maybe White Pine, because the examples of long wide curls from a plane seem to come from Pine.
Holly, because it bends so well may be an option.
Advantage Lumber still shows the low quality, non-white stock at $6.00/BF and some stock that is more clear for $12.00/BF.
Holly that has been infected by Blue Mold is just as sound as normal Holly, it is just blue or grey.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Lights (windows) framing material
If a thickness that is almost thin enough to read thru is needed, a very sharp plane may get you a semi thick shaving.
A knife and steel straight edge for the other dimension.
A compatible wood species would increase the probability of success. No loss to kerf, either.
You would need to research the type of plane that does this. I expect it will need a high quality plane and a whole lot of practice.
Maybe White Pine, because the examples of long wide curls from a plane seem to come from Pine.
Holly, because it bends so well may be an option.
Advantage Lumber still shows the low quality, non-white stock at $6.00/BF and some stock that is more clear for $12.00/BF.
Holly that has been infected by Blue Mold is just as sound as normal Holly, it is just blue or grey.
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Jaager reacted to druxey in Lights (windows) framing material
The issue with square-hole drawplates is that they are designed for pulling metal wire through. It essentially squeezes metal; it doesn't cut. Wood needs to be cut or shaved; it really doesn't squeeze well! That is why a drawplate for wood, such as the Byrnes' is of a different form than a traditional jewelers' drawplate. I don't know of such a square drawplate design on the market.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Gluing deck, will this work?
You might consider giving yellow PVA a try.
PVA does not bond as a putty type substance would. It "invades" the wood surface pores and irregularities with long chains. The chains interlink in the gap between the two surfaces.
Concepts to keep in mind as PVA is applied:
The smaller the gap, the stronger is the bond.
The more surface are covered, the stronger the bond.
We work with very small surface areas that have tight tolerances - if done correctly.
I have good luck using miniature sponge sticks -
I use the packing foam that comes in sheets or rectangles. An actual sponge paint applicator would work as a source, but the other stuff is free.
The flexible and irregular surface packing material that can suck up the PVA is what is wanted.
The stuff that is like Styrofoam cups or peanuts is not at all a good choice.
A Gem single edge or carpet layers cutter will allow for any size and shape needed to get at any particular surface.
Duco is not all that good for much, but a round toothpick (or two or three) can be dipped in it and then pushed into a hole in the foam. This makes for a handy handle that can be ready to go in about 15 minutes. If you have a favorite foam stick, it can be rinsed in tap water and reused - if you get to the sink before the PVA has a chance to set.
Use the foam stick to apply a just wet PVA layer on both meeting surfaces. If done correctly, there should be minimal squeeze out. If it is where it will not be sanded off later, a damp paper towel, or steel blade scraper easily removes it.
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Jaager got a reaction from Cathead in Gluing deck, will this work?
You might consider giving yellow PVA a try.
PVA does not bond as a putty type substance would. It "invades" the wood surface pores and irregularities with long chains. The chains interlink in the gap between the two surfaces.
Concepts to keep in mind as PVA is applied:
The smaller the gap, the stronger is the bond.
The more surface are covered, the stronger the bond.
We work with very small surface areas that have tight tolerances - if done correctly.
I have good luck using miniature sponge sticks -
I use the packing foam that comes in sheets or rectangles. An actual sponge paint applicator would work as a source, but the other stuff is free.
The flexible and irregular surface packing material that can suck up the PVA is what is wanted.
The stuff that is like Styrofoam cups or peanuts is not at all a good choice.
A Gem single edge or carpet layers cutter will allow for any size and shape needed to get at any particular surface.
Duco is not all that good for much, but a round toothpick (or two or three) can be dipped in it and then pushed into a hole in the foam. This makes for a handy handle that can be ready to go in about 15 minutes. If you have a favorite foam stick, it can be rinsed in tap water and reused - if you get to the sink before the PVA has a chance to set.
Use the foam stick to apply a just wet PVA layer on both meeting surfaces. If done correctly, there should be minimal squeeze out. If it is where it will not be sanded off later, a damp paper towel, or steel blade scraper easily removes it.
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Jaager got a reaction from ubjs in Gluing deck, will this work?
You might consider giving yellow PVA a try.
PVA does not bond as a putty type substance would. It "invades" the wood surface pores and irregularities with long chains. The chains interlink in the gap between the two surfaces.
Concepts to keep in mind as PVA is applied:
The smaller the gap, the stronger is the bond.
The more surface are covered, the stronger the bond.
We work with very small surface areas that have tight tolerances - if done correctly.
I have good luck using miniature sponge sticks -
I use the packing foam that comes in sheets or rectangles. An actual sponge paint applicator would work as a source, but the other stuff is free.
The flexible and irregular surface packing material that can suck up the PVA is what is wanted.
The stuff that is like Styrofoam cups or peanuts is not at all a good choice.
A Gem single edge or carpet layers cutter will allow for any size and shape needed to get at any particular surface.
Duco is not all that good for much, but a round toothpick (or two or three) can be dipped in it and then pushed into a hole in the foam. This makes for a handy handle that can be ready to go in about 15 minutes. If you have a favorite foam stick, it can be rinsed in tap water and reused - if you get to the sink before the PVA has a chance to set.
Use the foam stick to apply a just wet PVA layer on both meeting surfaces. If done correctly, there should be minimal squeeze out. If it is where it will not be sanded off later, a damp paper towel, or steel blade scraper easily removes it.
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Jaager got a reaction from DaveBaxt in Sanding Sealer - when/how to use it
These terms are often used in a fast and loose manner with no anchor to what they really mean, so some posts can be confusing.
I think these are functionally precise definitions:
A sanding sealer, or sand-n-sealer - a clear and thick mixture with micro particles - the main use is as a base coat on furniture built using open pore wood species such as Oak, Walnut, Ash... It fills the open pores so that when viewed at an oblique angle, the final surface appears to be glass smooth.
Opinion: it is too thick for scale use. Open pore wood is best not used at all on scale models if the wood is to be clear finished. There are other ways to fill pores before painting.
A primer is generally a 50% diluted clear material intended to soak in deeply and limit any additional material layers to being surface only. The traditional primer is half strength shellac. It is easy to apply, easy to undo, quick to dry, low cost, and compatible with most any other materials applied over it.
If an clear oil finish is the goal, half strength Tung oil can be its primer coat or I am guessing half strength Linseed oil will serve as as its primer. Both would want additional time to polymerize before being covered over. 50% shellac is probably more cost effective as a primer for these.
Shellac is alcohol based and the oils are organic solvent based. They do not raise wood grain.
Paint can be its own primer, it just requires more coats to get a dense enough surface layer. If the paint is water based, the surface may need fine sanding to remove any raised grain.
A dye is a monomolecular solution of a pigment that soaks into wood and changes its color. It does not change the surface. It does not obscure wood grain. If anything, it increases the contrast, This is not necessarily a wonderful thing on a scale model, so having grain with lower contrast is a deciding factor for the choice of wood species if it is to be clear finished.
Dyes come water based and alcohol based. The water based dye soaks in more deeply, but the first application raises wood grain unless a dilute PVA/water solution is used first and then sanded when dry. The alcohol based dye does not raise grain and on a model, any effect that a deeper water dye penetration may provide is probably too slight to be noticed, so alcohol based is probably the better choice. No primer effect with either is there.
A stain is a suspension of pigment particles in a solution with a polymerizing binder. This is also the definition of paint. The pigments are wood colored and some commercial products may also contain a dye so that it can advertise that it penetrates.
Opinion: on a model, if it is wood that needs a stain before clear finish it would serve you better to replace this wood species with one that needs no pore filling or grain hiding with a semi-transparent paint - which is what a stain is. The purpose of a stain is to try to make a low quality wood appear to be a high quality wood ona piece of economy furniture.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Green Rope?
I would place a sizable bet, that you have some homemade ropewalk product there.
The corrugated cardboard is what I use to hold my ropewalk product. I used the wrong spacing and got a layup that looked like that --- like string.
It is probably waxed, so what you feel is probably not indicative of its substance.
If it is waxed cotton or linen, treatment with a solvent to remove the wax may be necessary for a dye to penetrate.
If it is a synthetic polymer, a dye will probably not take.
If it is a synthetic, the solvent meant to remove wax may turn it into a gummy mess, so test a small piece first.
It looks like it could pass for steel standing rigging - if the size matches your scale - and even thin black paint - maybe organic solvent based - may make it stiff like wire.
I sure would not have been much interested in pulling steel running rigging bare handed. I would not have wanted to even be on deck if a steel rigging rigging line broke loose and whipped around. My point being that while steel standing rigging makes sense - using it as running rigging seems like it could have been dangerous.
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Jaager got a reaction from mtaylor in Green Rope?
Is it weed green or synthetic dye green?
The linen yarn that I bought from one of the Baltic countries is what I guess the dried flax plant stem would be. Or at least a variety grown in the Baltic region. When I owned 5 acres and gardened, during the Winter one year, I thought about planting some flax. Then I read about the process required to convert the plant stems into yarn and thought better of it.
The other suppliers have white, half bleached, and natural - which is not as green.
Hemp is a tan/yellow so white (bleached) and half bleached would not match. I have no problem using the Baltic green for running rigging. I plan for a dark Walnut (Van Dyke) dye for standing rigging. But my interest stops at 1860.
Cutty is a different generation and technology. There may well have been steel cable - depending on when in her working life is chosen. There was actual petrol based tar during Cutty's time, so actual black would probably match.
If your purchase actually includes real linen - that would be something special.
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Jaager got a reaction from Keith Black in Green Rope?
Is it weed green or synthetic dye green?
The linen yarn that I bought from one of the Baltic countries is what I guess the dried flax plant stem would be. Or at least a variety grown in the Baltic region. When I owned 5 acres and gardened, during the Winter one year, I thought about planting some flax. Then I read about the process required to convert the plant stems into yarn and thought better of it.
The other suppliers have white, half bleached, and natural - which is not as green.
Hemp is a tan/yellow so white (bleached) and half bleached would not match. I have no problem using the Baltic green for running rigging. I plan for a dark Walnut (Van Dyke) dye for standing rigging. But my interest stops at 1860.
Cutty is a different generation and technology. There may well have been steel cable - depending on when in her working life is chosen. There was actual petrol based tar during Cutty's time, so actual black would probably match.
If your purchase actually includes real linen - that would be something special.
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Jaager got a reaction from Keith Black in Green Rope?
I would place a sizable bet, that you have some homemade ropewalk product there.
The corrugated cardboard is what I use to hold my ropewalk product. I used the wrong spacing and got a layup that looked like that --- like string.
It is probably waxed, so what you feel is probably not indicative of its substance.
If it is waxed cotton or linen, treatment with a solvent to remove the wax may be necessary for a dye to penetrate.
If it is a synthetic polymer, a dye will probably not take.
If it is a synthetic, the solvent meant to remove wax may turn it into a gummy mess, so test a small piece first.
It looks like it could pass for steel standing rigging - if the size matches your scale - and even thin black paint - maybe organic solvent based - may make it stiff like wire.
I sure would not have been much interested in pulling steel running rigging bare handed. I would not have wanted to even be on deck if a steel rigging rigging line broke loose and whipped around. My point being that while steel standing rigging makes sense - using it as running rigging seems like it could have been dangerous.
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Jaager got a reaction from Saburo in Alaskan Yellow Cedar
Mark,
Sustainable Northwest Wood
2701 SE 14th Ave, Portland, OR 97202
They have 4x4 and 8x4 Madrone lumber - they anywhere near you?
By the way, I left a price quote inquiry for AYC with a lumber yard on your side of the continent, no joy today
maybe the holiday?
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Jaager got a reaction from Canute in Collections of Ship Models: Help!
The Science Museum had a model of HMS Prince that may meet your spec -