Doreltomin

By the way, Chuck....OUR Confederacy just ran away with BEST IN SHOW at this year's North Carolina Maritime Society's annual Boat Builders Show. Held this past weekend in Beaufort, NC.

Several milestones in every build are worthy of small celebrations. The final hull plank is one of those "Miller Time" moments.

...and now ... the sigle planking method... this is a method that requires carefulness and some experience ... Puttying is allowed, but the less the better ...

Very nice planking MarisStella. It shows your skill...
Thx

Hello friends, that's a very interesting discussion, so here's my two cents:
 
Incidentally I have seen such a thing as a boom rest. Not in real life (as the ship burned down during WW2), but in several old photographs, one of which I attached here a crop. The ship was Romania's first Training ship, a brig called "Mircea" (I) and was built by Thames Iron Works and Shibuilding Company, Blackwall near London in 1882. Please see for yourself the boom rest in the attached photograph. Please note that this is on a 19th century ship and moreover, a composite one (that means wooden strakes over iron frames) so the support itself is also made of iron. My own understanding was that the support is not a permanent fitting there but it can be folded and either lie flat on the deck or be put away on stowage when not in use. One thing is certain, there's just one such thing and is right in the middle of the ship, not on a side!
 
Hope this helps!

I would say the question is not just about weight. As Jud says, just think about the distribution of a force acting laterally on the mast. It acts just like one arm of a bow or more precisely like a cantilever with one end free and the other anchored securely on the deck. See:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantilever
 
Without goind too deep into structural analysis, the point is that the stress accumulates at the bottom of the mast, so the mast has to be thicker there to withstand the stress.
 
If instead of being tapered, it would have been straight, that would mean it would surely break at the foot because the ratio between its strength and the forces applied to it would have been the worst at this point. 
 
Now think again of one arm of the Archer's bow: it is also tapered from the tip to the middle for the same reason: to have a constant ratio between its strength and the forces applied to it, otherwise any irregularity would mean it would surely break under stress. 
 
Hope this helps!

Today, I started the day by preping the boat for epoxy . First I wiped the boat down with rubbing alcohol . Next I used a Cherry stain on the Transom . Then I mixed up a batch of West System G-flex Epoxy. This is the first time that I have used the G-flex . In the past I have always used the 105 Resin with the 205 Hardner .  I am glad that I tried it,  very simple with a  50/50 ratio ( so you dont need the pumps ) the pot life is longer as well as the cure time ( about 4 hours ) Next will be fairing the hull for primer . Here are the results

Thanks guillemot & Keith.
 
Your right Keith, I'm trying to get as much done as I can before Monday night. After that it might be a long time before I have both hands healed & working again.
 
Started on the jib boom bobstays. After learning from others here on MSW I want to do things more the way they should be. Decided that I would serve (?) (- please correct me if my terminology is wrong)- the lines. Wrapped around the jib boom & seized them.

Now forming the strip of brass that will hold the bell & attach to the stanchion. Then used very thin wire to form in one piece a loop holing the bell on, the handle & the ...um....ringer? -for the life of me I can't remember what you call that thing! . I also added a short cord hanging off the handle for pulling. The picture doesn't show it well but it's there.
 
I plan on making some handspikes to go with it later. Gotta watch it- already trying to use the hand too much too soon
 

So the port side cannons are glued to the deck, the breeching ropes however are not yet finished but that will be for next week! So, as I like to display my models in a realistic way I went ahead and did a little water test. As you don't see many ship models actually on the water, I prepared mine so it can float Maybe she sits al little high for now but there's a lot more stuff to go on her
 
Enjoy!

Finally, all the cannons on the gun deck are finished, FINALLY I'm happy with the way it looks, especially when you will not see a thing of it, a shame but it was good practice for the ones that will be visible

Hello Again:
 
Having only joined MSW a couple of weeks ago, I don't have many pictures of the build up to that point.  However, here are a few which show the partially-painted hull, the masts with topmasts added, gaff temporarily in place in order to begin the process of deciding the size and shape of the main, the mainsail  temporarily in place, and the main and foresail, which was progress to early January.  Late January through to the present was a process of designing, making and temporarily rigging, adjusting and fixing, the rest of the sails, the current state of which can be seen in the last two pictures. 
 
Not knowing if the builder had intended it to be a scale model of an actual vessel (but believing he had not) and not having any plans was, in a sense, liberating: I could simply try to design the most attractive rig possible.  So what you see in the pictures of its current state reflects my own sense of the Grand Banks fishing schooner rig, a bit of Bluenose (which we Canadians grow up with because it's on our ten-cent piece), Gertrude Thebaud, Columbia, and other attractive schooners of which I could find pictures.  Thanks to our PVR, I also stumbled upon a great source of actual film footage of the Gloucester fishing fleet in the 1935 production of Kipling's Captains Courageous: it's filled with absolutely wonderful shots of these beautiful schooners on all points of sail, with many different sail combinations, and in different weather conditions (it's also a great story and film!). 
 
While my sense of the boat evolved as I made progress, right from the outset I've been trying to achieve the look of a working boat with beaten-up sails; this also harmonized with the look of the hull after almost 50 years in a garage, even after repair and painting.  Hence, six of the sails were made from an old piece of sailcloth, and I'm working on the main and foresail (made from cloth in a kit) to give them more of a weathered look.  The last two pictures above, both of which are partially backlit, show the overall effect with the varied colours and imperfections.
 
I've now started shrouds and ratlines -- a daunting prospect, on which I'll be seeking help -- and there are still many, many other small things to adjust, fix and add. 
 
Suggestions and comments welcome.
 
Rick
 
 
 
 

Hello Again:
 
One of the first challenges I faced, after eliminating many years' accumulation of dust, dirt, grease, etc. , was the break in the top plank on both sides, visible in the first picture above.  I tried injecting cc and clamping, reinforcing with a top rail (which I was going to do anyway since the top of the planks were exposed and quite rough), and adding a rub rail.  None of this worked and the breaks continued to widen as the planks pulled away from the deck at the point of fracture.  I finally resorted to gluing pieces of 0.25" stock to the deck and bulwarks for most of the length of the deck: this did the trick and had the additional benefit of almost hiding the very sloppy white paint job someone had attempted along the edges of the deck.   Unfortunately, any semblance of realism and scale was lost as a result.   I've attached a picture showing the 0.25" stock and the white paint it almost covers.  It also shows the small afterdeck I ultimately built to screen the white paint on the deck at the stern, an inch fore to aft and particularly horrible.   I'm sure there were probably other less-unsightly ways I might have dealt with the fractured-plank problem and certainly would be interested in hearing any.
 
The next big question was what to do about the iron or lead fin keel.  It's an interesting look in some ways and some people actually like it, but it's highly unrealistic and I hated it.  I was tempted to try to remove it but, given its age, the fact that I had no idea how it was attached, and my own skill level, I decided to leave well enough alone and live with it.  Part way through the build, however, I made two pieces to modify the display stand to screen the fin.   Debate continues within the family as to which way it looks better.
 
All for now.   Suggestions and comments welcome.
 
Rick

thank you all for your kind comments! it really gives me extra encouragement to bring this project to the next level!
 
Thank you for your constructive comment Doreltomin! The deck is all paint over plastic. The way heller made the lower gun deck, it was just a plain piece of plastic with 3 holes in it. I scribed all the planks in it and painted it. First a coat of black, then a light coat of gray, and then some random strakes of sand colour and earthbrown, then I gave it a wash with some thinned down brown paint
 
Ah yes, the problem with the masts, I know the foremast is a little bit warped but the main mast is straight, thank god I already addressed this problem a bit, I think the foremast is a little bit straighter but I will certainly try your tips! Thank you!
 
Cheers!

all cannons done, ready to install them I also decided to leave the copper paint as is... it looks good to me! 
 
Some pictures of the lower gun deck cannons dry fitted
 
in the first two pictures you can see my little jig so the cannons would be the same hight. It worked pretty good. First measured the correct height of one cannon [the cannonsbarrels according to heller are aimed too high up] with a noteblok as you can see. It is pretty accurate as you can add page by page or remove a page until you reach the correct angle. So then I taped a piece of tape upside down and when the gunbarrels are glued to the carriages, I just place the tip of the barrel on the piece of tape, let it stick until it's dry and you have 30 equal cannons feel free to use the same method if you please, it's pretty handy and fast!
 
 
 

Hello everyone!
 
I have been stalking this site for a while now (when one looks at every post every day you can begin to call it stalking I guess) and I actually fell in love with sailingships, especially naval vessels from mid 18th to late 18th century.
 
I'm currently building (as the title of this topic already says it:) Le superbe from heller. The instructions are pretty unclear and in french so for my first ship of this kind, that's quite a setback. But nothing is forlorn! My deepest grattitude is extended to Blue Ensign for letting me base my model on his Le Praetorian. When I'm stuck with my model I spy a little bit off his buildlog since there are no buildlogs of this ship that has that level of detail and extensiveness.
 
So more about the build itself. I started the build in march 2013, almost a year further and not that much progression, because of a very big learning curve to overcome. I take my time to do and redo things when necessary. And a building break of 5 months also has something to do with it. Too much schoolwork and so on.
 
I have added some detail to the longboat because I don't like the look of an empty boat, and the setting of the shipsboats doesn't satisfy me. Other boats will be built later on to be incorporated in a diorama. I will try to add as much detail to the cannons as possible, which in this scale is pretty hard. I painted the cannons flat black but I also overdrawn them with pencil to add a metallic look. At the moment only the 30 32pndrs are painted and eyeletes have been attached to the trucks. As you will notice in my pictures, the ship is seaworthy, at least it can float like a real ship. I also built my previous models, Bismarck and Prinz Eugen this way, because it adds some realism. Nothing worse like a ship on dry land in my opinion... But with models it's harder said than done of course. The foremast is a bit warped but this is already fixed. 
 
I am planning to pick up the build again starting from june, because school will be over and I have a whole summerholiday to get some work done.
 
I know that I will never reach the quality and finesse all the models on this forum have but I am passionate about it and my goal is to make a ship that I like/love and will be proud of. My deepest respect for all you experienced shipbuilders on this forum, wood and plastic. Every time I look at a build I am symply awe-struck!
 
Enjoy and any comment/help is welcome!
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
greetings.

The fact that the beams cross the wales confirms to me that Zorzi Trombetta drew his sketch from life and probably while the nave was in drydock( hence the unplanked area between the main wales). This is one of the reasons that I chose this sketch as a basis for a model. Most other paintings are by professional artists interested in aesthetics whereas Zorzi was primarily interested in recording the craft of shipbuilding.
 
Doreltomin. Thanks for the scholarly breakdown on the derivation of Carrack, with which I substantially agree. However, when you say: "The nao being primarily a merchant vessel while the carrack was primarily built for war", it does not take into account that in the late middle ages, mediterranean round ships ( naos or naves or nefs) were sometimes hired or recruited as warships even though they were built as merchant vessels. This is because it was soon realised that the high freebord of the round ship was a great protection against the low slung galleys of the corsairs. Only later were purpose built round hulled warships developed. It is a fascinating topic, isn't it?
Dick

Hello Woodrat,
 
It's good to see you started again this project, this time as a full model. Looks good so far, keep up the good work! I also like the colour of the bulwark. Insofar I know, the wood outside the water was treated with a compound which, if I am right, in Italian, Provencal and Catalan, otherwise said the north-mediterranean languages is called "harpuse" and includes resin from conifer trees, therefore giving the wood a pleasant yellow-reddish colour.
 
One more word regarding the name.It is not taken from anywhere else instead it is my own thinking as I have always loved to link words from different cultures and search for their primary meaning. So please judge this with your own mind and conclude for yourself if my theory is misleading or not. So....
 
The name Carrack may sound confusing, although it is the same in all European languages. It is Carrack in English, Carraca in Italian, Kraeck in the famous engraving of the Flemish Master William Croce.  I have seen Nenad's comment up there and it is the same in Croatian as well. It is confusing for us Europeans because actually this name comes from Syriac, a language of the Close East. If you have ever heard of he "Krak des Chevaliers", originally known as "Krak de L'Hospital" (search for the link on Wikipedia)  then you are close to the original name of the ship.
 
"Krak" in Syriac originally meant "fortified castle" and the name was later borrowed for naval use, where a "Carrack" was a fortified ship suitable for war, otherwise said, a warship. Therefore a Carrack can well practically have the same lines as a large "Nao" yet what makes the difference is her main purpose, the Nao being primarily a merchant vessel while the Carrack was meant primarily for war.

Following your build with great interest. Very precise work till here.

I don`t know if its too late, but I`ve got some fotos which might be interesting.
Those are from the book: Historische Schiffsmodelle Das Handbuch der Modellbauer
by Wolfram zu Mondfeld

Michiel,
 
There is no "safe rule" regarding guns as they come in very different sizes and makes and it was common practice to re-use guns, but insofar I know there is an "older' fashion of about 1600-1720 where they have cast handles and a "newer" fashion after 1720 when they don't have handles anymore. Actually these handles are somehow superfluous: if they are too thin they can broke if the piece is lifted from them. If they are too thick they add to the weight of the piece; anyway, the piece can be lifted with the rope twisted from under it. Also in the meantime they have gained experience and knew how to cast large iron pieces so it is more likely that the "new style" iron pieces don't have handles while the "older" pieces in bronze have them. As a rule of thumb it would be that smaller, older pieces like stone throwers were cast in bronze and had handles. Bigger pieces were cast in iron and hadn't.  It is actually very confusing as there were surely new ships of around, say, 1750 which may have carried older cast pieces, these generally being the guns of smaller caliber.
 
Hope this helps!

Aaah, Nigel, you were faster than me! 
 
I was just trying to write here about the same thing when the site said "there are two more answers to show"....
 
if she's not the HMS Glatton then she must be one of the Cyclops class of 1870:
HMS Cyclops,
HMS Gorgon,
HMS Hecate,
HMS Hydra.
 
Later edit: With the last clue "name the same as her class" that makes:  HMS Cyclops!
 
So congratulations Nigel, seems you got her!

Thank you Russ, I know what your talking about, The transom seams are good so far . I do plan on using a west system epoxy resin to seal up the Hull, This one will go in the water for a Sail
 
Best Regards,
Pete

Copied from the 'monumentenarchief'
Beschrijving Standbeeld van Michiel de Ruyter met twee bronzen scheepskanonnen
Standbeeld van Michiel Adriaanszoon de Ruyter. (1841) door L. Royer. Hierbij opgesteld twee bronzen scheepskanonnen, gegoten respectievelijk 1617 en 1622.                
 
(which states that the guns next to Statue of De Ruyter are original ones, cast in 1617 and 1622, cast in bronze)
 
The others are dating back to the French time I guess. (at least, they look very much like the French guns in fortresses of Den Helder and Texel. (shorter guns, thicker walls, and no decorations at all.)
 
Jan

the other ones are most likely not ship guns indeed, they're  40-42 pounders…