Bob Cleek

Roger,
 
I am a a heretic about something like this and I think that his whole exact color thing has too quick sand a foundation to warrant becoming OCD about it.
First off, unless seen in person, any color captured on film, tape or electrons is going to be different.  Even if you had the exact RGB number - every computer screen is going to do its own interpretation of it.
Close enough is good enough.
 
If you have a color chip or equivalent  I would use a color wheel  to get most of the formula.
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/artistscolorwheel.aspx
Now that I know what they really are I would use artist's oil  (40ml tubes)  and mix my own 
One of the companies may have a ready made that is close or only needs more black or white or ....
A little linseed oil and mineral spirits and you are set.

Wow! What a selection of "jewelry!" It looks reasonably priced, too. This one went right into my "Favorites - Modeling" file.
 
Thanks a million for sharing it, Kurt!

No.  Just took me a bit to find my link to the company.  They are in Poland and ship quick and the shipping costs were very reasonable.  A lot of product can fit in a #10 envelope. 
Steve Wheeler and I purchased a lot of parts from this place.  We would pool our orders together - it gave us an excuse to get together.  Everything we got was of very good quality and they are quick to get the parts in the mail.
https://www.rbmodel.com 

Excellent question! I wondered the same thing the other day. Vossiewulf was a valuable member of the forum community. He's a very accomplished modeler. I've learned much from him over the years. Perhaps the Admin could give him a ping.
 
 

Excellent question! I wondered the same thing the other day. Vossiewulf was a valuable member of the forum community. He's a very accomplished modeler. I've learned much from him over the years. Perhaps the Admin could give him a ping.
 
 

Great advice from Toni!!!!  The more you read the more satisfying and fun the hobby can be.   The more you read the better.   
 
Allan

I did not know that. Very interesting. It makes perfect sense that they'd not be too worried about antifouling paint there. I have not idea what the local regs are, but there are lots of rust-inhibiting coatings available now, so red lead isn't needed. (They can even spray molten zinc, which results in the equivalent of hot dipped galvanizing.) They come at a cost, though. In my neck of the woods, they stopped painting the Golden Gate Bridge with red lead paint years ago. They now use another coating of the same color. 

These are my go-to guys for taps in the UK (including LH/RH taps and dies).
 
https://www.tracytools.com/
 
 

Search: 'miniature left hand thread taps and dies'
 
One result:
 
https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/204960886/14-tap-die-set-no-07mm-to-2mm-taps-and?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_ca_en_ca_b-craft_supplies_and_tools-other&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAjwk6-LBhBZEiwAOUUDpxEIaD5B28Q7qqb-p0gWEGwFt6zgynsLWc3OKAnMrgGdG1AHY9PXShoC6DEQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_319629165_19444327605_75295112325_aud-310388264614:pla-106551294035_c__204960886enca_367792477&utm_custom2=319629165&gclid=CjwKCAjwk6-LBhBZEiwAOUUDpxEIaD5B28Q7qqb-p0gWEGwFt6zgynsLWc3OKAnMrgGdG1AHY9PXShoC6DEQAvD_BwE
 
Happy hunting!

"I have scratch built turnbuckles but I found a source for very well made brass turnbuckles at a very reasonable price and will not scratch build another turnbuckle.  These are for more modern boats than steam riverboats where I will still have to scratch build them."
 
Did you forget to post the link to your source, or are you just trying to play hard to get?  
 
I've always had problems with turnbuckles. Reasonable facsimiles can be made, but I've never been able to replicate the working turnbuckles on a 4' long  live steam working 1900 steam yacht model I extensively restored years ago. The model was built in the early 1920's. Four inch-long open body turnbuckles with properly opposingly threaded forked arms supported the deck-stepped signals mast. I've looked all over for tiny reverse-thread taps and dies to no avail. Even regular tiny taps and dies are very hard to find and quite expensive. I expect the best that can be done is to have but one end threaded and the other a "dummy." On that model, the ability to loosen the turnbuckles and unhook the shrouds from the chainplates made it possible to remove the mast when transporting the model, a feature that came in very handy. If anybody knows where opposing-threaded micro-taps and dies can be found, I'm all ears.
 
(I wouldn't be a bit surprised if wefalck doesn't have a complete set of right and left-handed micro-taps and dies in his collection of watchmaking tools!  )

I did not know that. Very interesting. It makes perfect sense that they'd not be too worried about antifouling paint there. I have not idea what the local regs are, but there are lots of rust-inhibiting coatings available now, so red lead isn't needed. (They can even spray molten zinc, which results in the equivalent of hot dipped galvanizing.) They come at a cost, though. In my neck of the woods, they stopped painting the Golden Gate Bridge with red lead paint years ago. They now use another coating of the same color. 

Thanks, Mark
 
 Bob: Here on the Lakes, the colors of vessels’ hulls reflect the cargos that they are expected to carry; Red oxide, iron ore; Black, coal; and light grey, limestone or cement.  A few fleets sported fancy paint jobs; Shenango Furnace painted their hulls green and ships In the Inland Steel Fleet still have a red oxide hull with a white stripe.  Crews supposedly hate the paint job since they have to maintain it.
 
Since, draft can vary greatly depending on loaded condition  and since fouling is not a huge problem, the paint job does not mark a load waterline.  Instead the hull color is carried down to the strake of plating just above the bilge strake.  Below that, the hull is painted with whatever primer was used.  In days past this was an orange hued red lead.  Color photos from 50 or so years ago sometimes show this, and often show the red lead primer where lock walls, docks, etc. have rubbed off the paint.
 
When Ships fit out after winter layup, crews standing on the harbor ice with very long handled paint rollers touch up the paint.  These ships are usually drydocked every five years.  At that time the bottoms are sandblasted and repainted.
 
With current regulations preventing lead based paints, I would assume that bottoms are now painted with ordinary red iron oxide primer.
 
Roger

Industrial metal fabricators have long been faced with the problem of painting metal with a durable coating.  Industrial painting specifications invariably require using a solvent to remove grease, oil, etc.  This is followed by abrasive blast cleaning with sand or if possible metal grit.  Most specifications then require prime coating within the same 8 hour shift.
 
So what does this have to do with the question at hand?
 
The principals are the same.  First, go over the surface with a file to get rid of solder, scale, etc. A file or sandpaper will also give the surface what is known as “tooth.”  Coatings do not stick to polished surfaces.   Thoroughly clean the surface.  An aggressive solvent is necessary. I use a little lacquer thinner in a tuna fish can.  Handle the part with tweezers.  Oil from your skin will inhibit bonding.  Blacken or paint immediately.  An invisible oxide film can form overnight.
 
These small parts will usually be handled after coating.  To avoid damage, I seal the coating by spraying the part with a matt lacquer.  Dulcote or similar.
 
Roger
 
 

Maybe I'm missing the color to which you refer. Red lead primer is used to prime iron and steel because the lead oxide bonds well to iron and steel. It's not an antifouling hull coating, however. Traditional antifouling coatings are generally the same a reddish brown color as some red lead paint because they contain a fair amount of cuprous oxide. There's a wide range of colors which one might describe as "red lead." 
 
Red lead oxide pigment has a color range from bright orange ("International Orange") through scarlet to brick red or brown depending on the composition of the lead oxide. That's the problem when it comes to matching it. Because red lead oxide was the cheapest paint pigment at one time, they painted everything with it where appearances didn't matter, from ship bottoms to boxcars to schoolhouses, to barns, and in every variation of the orange to brown range.  This is probably why none of the paint manufacturers market a specific "red lead" color. Artists call the bright orange colored version of red lead tetroxide "minium," which was what the Romans called it. You can find artists' oil paint called by that name: Minium (Red Lead) Oil Paint Minium 50Ml (artistsupplysource.com) You'll find many premixed shades of what you are looking for in the "railroad colors" section of model paint manufacturers' chip sheets. 
 
 

 
Minium-232908 - Minium (mineral) - Wikipedia
 
Or, you can buy lead tetroxide powder from Firefoxs' Home page--for fireworks making supplies, pyrotechnic chemicals, color smoke, composite propellant kits, electric igniter kits, Igniter Heads, Paper Caps & Plugs, 37/38mm insert materials, fireworks fuse.... (firefox-fx.com) and mix up a batch of the real stuff in your basement at home:
 
Makes one gallon:
 
20 lbs dry red lead tetroxide powder**
5 pts raw linseed oil*
1/2 pt turpentine
1/2 pt Japan drier*
 
*If using "boiled" linseed oil, the Japan drier should be omitted.
 
**If cost or weight is a consideration, cabosil or talc may be substituted for up to half the red lead tetroxide powder to maintain paint consistency.
 
Or for small modelmaking amounts, you could just take any clear matt finish coating and however much red lead tetroxide powder you need to color it to your taste. 
 
 
 

Maybe I'm missing the color to which you refer. Red lead primer is used to prime iron and steel because the lead oxide bonds well to iron and steel. It's not an antifouling hull coating, however. Traditional antifouling coatings are generally the same a reddish brown color as some red lead paint because they contain a fair amount of cuprous oxide. There's a wide range of colors which one might describe as "red lead." 
 
Red lead oxide pigment has a color range from bright orange ("International Orange") through scarlet to brick red or brown depending on the composition of the lead oxide. That's the problem when it comes to matching it. Because red lead oxide was the cheapest paint pigment at one time, they painted everything with it where appearances didn't matter, from ship bottoms to boxcars to schoolhouses, to barns, and in every variation of the orange to brown range.  This is probably why none of the paint manufacturers market a specific "red lead" color. Artists call the bright orange colored version of red lead tetroxide "minium," which was what the Romans called it. You can find artists' oil paint called by that name: Minium (Red Lead) Oil Paint Minium 50Ml (artistsupplysource.com) You'll find many premixed shades of what you are looking for in the "railroad colors" section of model paint manufacturers' chip sheets. 
 
 

 
Minium-232908 - Minium (mineral) - Wikipedia
 
Or, you can buy lead tetroxide powder from Firefoxs' Home page--for fireworks making supplies, pyrotechnic chemicals, color smoke, composite propellant kits, electric igniter kits, Igniter Heads, Paper Caps & Plugs, 37/38mm insert materials, fireworks fuse.... (firefox-fx.com) and mix up a batch of the real stuff in your basement at home:
 
Makes one gallon:
 
20 lbs dry red lead tetroxide powder**
5 pts raw linseed oil*
1/2 pt turpentine
1/2 pt Japan drier*
 
*If using "boiled" linseed oil, the Japan drier should be omitted.
 
**If cost or weight is a consideration, cabosil or talc may be substituted for up to half the red lead tetroxide powder to maintain paint consistency.
 
Or for small modelmaking amounts, you could just take any clear matt finish coating and however much red lead tetroxide powder you need to color it to your taste. 
 
 
 

Thanks for posting this conversion chart program. It's one of the most extensive I've ever seen and a welcome addition to my "favorites" collection. I especially like the convenient feature of just clicking on the brand and then the color and getting the whole range of equivalents. It's more than just a "chart," it's a program. While the variation in computer screen color settings render these "online paint chips" less than perfect, they are an excellent start for those of us who mix our own colors, or run out of our "stash" of the old-time premixed "good stuff" in the middle of a build.
 
For those who may find it useful, here's an additional color conversion chart for the now out of production Floquil colors: Floquil Color Chart.pdf (microscale.com)
 
Here also is a link to a PDF copy of Floquil's instruction booklet on another website. It contains a lot of good painting tips for miniatures:  Floquil Painting Miniatures (paulbudzik.com)

Thanks for posting this conversion chart program. It's one of the most extensive I've ever seen and a welcome addition to my "favorites" collection. I especially like the convenient feature of just clicking on the brand and then the color and getting the whole range of equivalents. It's more than just a "chart," it's a program. While the variation in computer screen color settings render these "online paint chips" less than perfect, they are an excellent start for those of us who mix our own colors, or run out of our "stash" of the old-time premixed "good stuff" in the middle of a build.
 
For those who may find it useful, here's an additional color conversion chart for the now out of production Floquil colors: Floquil Color Chart.pdf (microscale.com)
 
Here also is a link to a PDF copy of Floquil's instruction booklet on another website. It contains a lot of good painting tips for miniatures:  Floquil Painting Miniatures (paulbudzik.com)

While quality model kits, as Roger describes them, serve to inspire and educate beginning builders and those who, for whatever reason, want a model a particular kit yields, "going over to the dark side" of scratch modeling is the inevitable outcome of one's developing modeling confidence, if not skill. 
 
You don't need to be a Passaro or Tosti to build from scratch. As Roger sagely notes, there is an unlimited supply of plans for just about any type of boat and they can often be had for "beer money," if not for free. Freeing one's self from bondage to the kit manufacturers opens the entire world of nautical subjects to the modeler who is thereby no longer bound to building models of ships that have been built hundreds, if not thousands, of times before. Chapelle famously addressed this over fifty years ago (I think,): Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Should Not be Built (thenrg.org)  and Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Ought to be Built (thenrg.org).  
 
I think the question that should be asked by serious modelers more often than it seems to be is, "If, by some strange twist of fate, my model were to come to light two or three hundred years from now, would studying it tell people in that far distant future anything they didn't already know?" We don't have to build to the amazing levels of technical quality to which only a few are able to achieve, either. Some of the most academically valuable models we have today were actually quite crude, but they are all we have to see what ships of their times looked like. We are all capable of building "museum quality" models, if we just give them enough time!
 
 
 
Mataró – the oldest Museum Ship Model | Professional Model Making (wordpress.com)

Thanks for posting this conversion chart program. It's one of the most extensive I've ever seen and a welcome addition to my "favorites" collection. I especially like the convenient feature of just clicking on the brand and then the color and getting the whole range of equivalents. It's more than just a "chart," it's a program. While the variation in computer screen color settings render these "online paint chips" less than perfect, they are an excellent start for those of us who mix our own colors, or run out of our "stash" of the old-time premixed "good stuff" in the middle of a build.
 
For those who may find it useful, here's an additional color conversion chart for the now out of production Floquil colors: Floquil Color Chart.pdf (microscale.com)
 
Here also is a link to a PDF copy of Floquil's instruction booklet on another website. It contains a lot of good painting tips for miniatures:  Floquil Painting Miniatures (paulbudzik.com)

While quality model kits, as Roger describes them, serve to inspire and educate beginning builders and those who, for whatever reason, want a model a particular kit yields, "going over to the dark side" of scratch modeling is the inevitable outcome of one's developing modeling confidence, if not skill. 
 
You don't need to be a Passaro or Tosti to build from scratch. As Roger sagely notes, there is an unlimited supply of plans for just about any type of boat and they can often be had for "beer money," if not for free. Freeing one's self from bondage to the kit manufacturers opens the entire world of nautical subjects to the modeler who is thereby no longer bound to building models of ships that have been built hundreds, if not thousands, of times before. Chapelle famously addressed this over fifty years ago (I think,): Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Should Not be Built (thenrg.org)  and Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Ought to be Built (thenrg.org).  
 
I think the question that should be asked by serious modelers more often than it seems to be is, "If, by some strange twist of fate, my model were to come to light two or three hundred years from now, would studying it tell people in that far distant future anything they didn't already know?" We don't have to build to the amazing levels of technical quality to which only a few are able to achieve, either. Some of the most academically valuable models we have today were actually quite crude, but they are all we have to see what ships of their times looked like. We are all capable of building "museum quality" models, if we just give them enough time!
 
 
 
Mataró – the oldest Museum Ship Model | Professional Model Making (wordpress.com)

While quality model kits, as Roger describes them, serve to inspire and educate beginning builders and those who, for whatever reason, want a model a particular kit yields, "going over to the dark side" of scratch modeling is the inevitable outcome of one's developing modeling confidence, if not skill. 
 
You don't need to be a Passaro or Tosti to build from scratch. As Roger sagely notes, there is an unlimited supply of plans for just about any type of boat and they can often be had for "beer money," if not for free. Freeing one's self from bondage to the kit manufacturers opens the entire world of nautical subjects to the modeler who is thereby no longer bound to building models of ships that have been built hundreds, if not thousands, of times before. Chapelle famously addressed this over fifty years ago (I think,): Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Should Not be Built (thenrg.org)  and Nautical Research Guild - Article - Ship Models that Ought to be Built (thenrg.org).  
 
I think the question that should be asked by serious modelers more often than it seems to be is, "If, by some strange twist of fate, my model were to come to light two or three hundred years from now, would studying it tell people in that far distant future anything they didn't already know?" We don't have to build to the amazing levels of technical quality to which only a few are able to achieve, either. Some of the most academically valuable models we have today were actually quite crude, but they are all we have to see what ships of their times looked like. We are all capable of building "museum quality" models, if we just give them enough time!
 
 
 
Mataró – the oldest Museum Ship Model | Professional Model Making (wordpress.com)

When we were young, it was beer! But, alas, we are no longer young.  

Tools get you through times of no love better than love gets you through times of no tools!  

When we were young, it was beer! But, alas, we are no longer young.  

Tools get you through times of no love better than love gets you through times of no tools!